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We Cannot Police New Home Seller Packs

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Guest Charlie The Tramp
The Home Information Packs (HIPs) scheme was facing new difficulties last night after officials admitted that they lacked the resources to police the scheme which is due in a fortnight.

Home sellers who market their properties without a pack after June 1 will be liable for a £200 fine. Persistent offenders could be fined repeatedly.

The Trading Standards Institute (TSI) said yesterday that its members would not be able to cope with the demand, and that it doubted the viability of the scheme.

"We anticipate that the volume of demand for trading standards advice and support will outstrip its capacity to deliver," said Ron Gainsford, the chief executive of the TSI.

I envisage a complete balls up from June 1st. :rolleyes:

'We cannot police new home seller packs'

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I would put money on HIPS being a TOTAL balls-up and probably another u-turn by the govt.

The local estate agents round my way have gone to the effort and expense of placing a full-page

advert in the local paper condemning HIPS and the Govt.

My old man who's a surveyor, and getting trained up for HIPS says they are totally ridiculous &

flawed (the same thing the estate agents are saying).

I expect nothing short of a total-collapse of the scheme.

It will be entertaining for anyone who is not directly involved.

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I would put money on HIPS being a TOTAL balls-up and probably another u-turn by the govt.

The local estate agents round my way have gone to the effort and expense of placing a full-page

advert in the local paper condemning HIPS and the Govt.

My old man who's a surveyor, and getting trained up for HIPS says they are totally ridiculous &

flawed (the same thing the estate agents are saying).

I expect nothing short of a total-collapse of the scheme.

It will be entertaining for anyone who is not directly involved.

Remember three/four years ago when EA's no longer could charge £25K+ for fixtures and fittings, this was a system EA's used to help their sellers to avoid paying the higher rate of stamp duty, which inturn meant there earned a little extra in commission, they were all up in arms about it saying, this is going to ***k up the market, how can we police this, look, VI's are always upset when a new law comes in that effectively monitors their shadowy world, there currently 1.5 million property transactions each year and all involving solicitors, there guys and gals have the jobs to be worried about, all the government need is issue these chaps with a caveat in buying contracts that they need to tick a box that says the sellers property has a HIP in place, simple, trading standards have nothing to do with this process, believe you me, they will be able to police HIP's perfectly fine, nobody going to be breaking the law, you'll see, just like 2 million motorists a year hand over £60 a time for doing 35 mph in a 30 limit without fuss.

I'm not actually an advocate of alot of things the Government does but I like this one as it has pi$$es off, EA's, mortgage lenders, surveyors, builders, property experts and speculators all in one swoop, bring it on, I've no chance in the current market of ever owning a nice 4 bed detached and anything that brings that dream closer by ****king up the housing market gets my vote. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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One question, how do they work?

If I see a flat in an EA window and pop into the EA shop, when enquiring about the flat, can I ask to see the HIP? Oh, I do hope so.

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Estate agents don't have to be a member of an official body at the moment. If they were forced to then that body could regulate the HIPS.

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One question, how do they work?

If I see a flat in an EA window and pop into the EA shop, when enquiring about the flat, can I ask to see the HIP? Oh, I do hope so.

I think an EA can reserve the right to refuse to show it to you presumably if they don't take you seriously. Heard it on the radio a while back, so a reasonably relaible source.

I can imagine they might want you to porve you have the funds/mortgage to purchase, your existing home is for sale and that you view before showing you the HIP. Weed out the timewatesrs

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As spokesman for the RICS declared that exisiting arrangements allowed their members to sell 3 or 4 surveys for the same property on a typical sale. The new rules would reduce this to one and smacked of value for money for the customer. Its a disaster he said and would cause chaos in the housing market.

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I think an EA can reserve the right to refuse to show it to you presumably if they don't take you seriously. Heard it on the radio a while back, so a reasonably relaible source.

I can imagine they might want you to porve you have the funds/mortgage to purchase, your existing home is for sale and that you view before showing you the HIP. Weed out the timewatesrs

It won't work like that if EA reserved the right to refuse show HIP, they would just shoot themselves in the foot. Would you buy a car if salesman reserved the right to confirm if it had MOT or not?

I'm not actually an advocate of alot of things the Government does but I like this one as it has pi$$es off, EA's, mortgage lenders, surveyors, builders, property experts and speculators all in one swoop, bring it on, I've no chance in the current market of ever owning a nice 4 bed detached and anything that brings that dream closer by ****king up the housing market gets my vote.

I agree with you I welcome any change that p!sses off VI, after all they are fighting only to protect their VI not the consumer.

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I would put money on HIPS being a TOTAL balls-up and probably another u-turn by the govt.

The local estate agents round my way have gone to the effort and expense of placing a full-page

advert in the local paper condemning HIPS and the Govt.

My old man who's a surveyor, and getting trained up for HIPS says they are totally ridiculous &

flawed (the same thing the estate agents are saying).

I expect nothing short of a total-collapse of the scheme.

It will be entertaining for anyone who is not directly involved.

Te EA in my area have full pages in newspaper with pro-HIPS ads.

Don't worry, HIPS is here to stay. What is your father problem with HIPS?

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The Home Information Packs (HIPs) scheme was facing new difficulties last night after officials admitted that they lacked the resources to police the scheme which is due in a fortnight.

What's the point of having it them? Those who abide by the new laws will be disadvantaged against those who flout the new laws. :rolleyes:

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It's just occured to me what might be worrying the VIs.

There are two possible outcomes from the removal of speculative sellers - those kite-fliers who want to find out what their house is worth, but aren't really serious about moving. The ones that they say will be deterred by HIPs.

1. There are fewer houses coming onto the market - less supply leads to higher prices (good news for VIs)

and/or

2. Kite-fliers will generally put in an asking price way above the going rate in the hope that if they can make that price it'll actually be worth selling.

The removal of these sellers could bring down Asking Prices. A drop in asking prices this summer could send out a panic signal to the market, as it is asking prices that are reported first in the stream of asking price - mortgage approval - transaction.

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It's just occured to me what might be worrying the VIs.

There are two possible outcomes from the removal of speculative sellers - those kite-fliers who want to find out what their house is worth, but aren't really serious about moving. The ones that they say will be deterred by HIPs.

1. There are fewer houses coming onto the market - less supply leads to higher prices (good news for VIs)

and/or

2. Kite-fliers will generally put in an asking price way above the going rate in the hope that if they can make that price it'll actually be worth selling.

The removal of these sellers could bring down Asking Prices. A drop in asking prices this summer could send out a panic signal to the market, as it is asking prices that are reported first in the stream of asking price - mortgage approval - transaction.

Then they'll just stick to advertising properties for sale in the shop windows that don't exist, as was the case at my local Winkworths recently. I went in and enquired about a flat in the window to be told that it had 'gone' and would I be interested in seeing anything else. It never occured to him to take the property out of the front window. It's probably still there now!

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The local estate agents round my way have gone to the effort and expense of placing a full-page

advert in the local paper condemning HIPS and the Govt.

Don't you wonder why they did so?

Could it be that, as Estate Agents, they want to continue their charitable work for their fellow citizens by pointing out the failures of this new system. Or, perhaps, they have a very big financial axe to grind?

Now, let me think! "Estate Agents doing good"? "Estate Agents telling the truth"? Sorry, DD. I'm not with you on this one. They can see a drop in income; they're desperate. They'll say anything - as always. Please accept my sincere condolences on having one in your family. We all have a cross to bear. Yours is just worse that most.

p

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Remember three/four years ago when EA's no longer could charge £25K+ for fixtures and fittings, this was a system EA's used to help their sellers to avoid paying the higher rate of stamp duty, which inturn meant there earned a little extra in commission, they were all up in arms about it saying, this is going to ***k up the market, how can we police this, look, VI's are always upset when a new law comes in that effectively monitors their shadowy world, there currently 1.5 million property transactions each year and all involving solicitors, there guys and gals have the jobs to be worried about, all the government need is issue these chaps with a caveat in buying contracts that they need to tick a box that says the sellers property has a HIP in place, simple, trading standards have nothing to do with this process, believe you me, they will be able to police HIP's perfectly fine, nobody going to be breaking the law, you'll see, just like 2 million motorists a year hand over £60 a time for doing 35 mph in a 30 limit without fuss.

I'm not actually an advocate of alot of things the Government does but I like this one as it has pi$$es off, EA's, mortgage lenders, surveyors, builders, property experts and speculators all in one swoop, bring it on, I've no chance in the current market of ever owning a nice 4 bed detached and anything that brings that dream closer by ****king up the housing market gets my vote. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The words 'Turkey' and 'Christmas' leap to mind. Anything that mucks up the housing market and, believe it or not, the EAs' objections are because they fear it will radically reduce supply - is likely to cause prices to go up.

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As spokesman for the RICS declared that exisiting arrangements allowed their members to sell 3 or 4 surveys for the same property on a typical sale. The new rules would reduce this to one and smacked of value for money for the customer. Its a disaster he said and would cause chaos in the housing market.

Easy money!

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All you Pro HIPs people on here - answer me a question. A question which has been asked since the first moment the HIPs idea was conceived.

Let's say the market is slow - it seems to be around here at the moment if I am not mistaken. The bigger stuff is beginning to stick again.

I have in my hand an estate agent's details of a property. It has been on the market since February.

Let's pretend HIPs is already in place.

I make an offer and it is accepted.

Now, the searches in the HIP would have been done in the first week or two of February. It is now nearly the end of May. So those searches are nearly 3 months old.

My question is - how old will searches have to be before you decide - as a buyer - they are out of date and you are going to have your own (new) ones done?

Obviously, this will vary. If you are buying a house in the middle of a large housing estate - maybe you will think there can't be anything in the searches that would worry you. But what if the council agreed last week to make the road the estate is next to a dual carriageway and you'd have to turn left onto it and drive two miles out of your way before you could turn back to go to work etc. etc.

The house whose details I refer to is on a long road - in a 'non-estate' position. For all I know there might have been a recent planning application to put a petrol station next door. I wouldn't trust the searches - and would instruct my solicitor to do them again.

So the vendor will have paid for searches in the HIP.

I will then pay again.

No time will have been saved.

The professionals in the industry have been pointing this out since the moment HIPs were conceived but the government thinks, as always, it knows better.

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My question is - how old will searches have to be before you decide - as a buyer - they are out of date and you are going to have your own (new) ones done?

Thats the greatness about HIP's, price it right it will sell, price it wrong and it will cost to get another one done ( by the seller) when it doesn't sell in 3 months, bring it on, its going to be a buyers market like no other.

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Thats the greatness about HIP's, price it right it will sell, price it wrong and it will cost to get another one done ( by the seller) when it doesn't sell in 3 months, bring it on, its going to be a buyers market like no other.

The seller doesn't have to get another one in 3 months - it will be up to the buyer to decide whether the searches in the HIP are recent enough to be relied on.

If the buyer says to the seller - via the agent normally - 'the searches are out of date - I want you to get new ones' - the seller will just say 'you get the searches done, you're buying, it's up to you to check things out locally, not up to me to get new searches done every week to make sure they are up to date'.

This is one of the essential flaws in HIPs - agents and others have been telling the government for years - but they know better about this - and everything else too.

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<snip>

So the vendor will have paid for searches in the HIP.

I will then pay again.

No time will have been saved.

The professionals in the industry have been pointing this out since the moment HIPs were conceived but the government thinks, as always, it knows better.

Am I the only one that sees these HIP's as merely an attempt by the government to put the brakes on HPI?

So far we've had:

1. HIP's

2. Rent Deposit Scheme

3. Relaxed home extension regulations (announced yesterday)

If I was about to make the biggest financial commitment in my life, you can bet I wasn't going to be making it on some snake-skin oil saleman's HIP!

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HIP FAQ's

How long is a Pack valid for?

Some documents can be no be more than three months old when marketing starts, but there is no obligation to update Packs as long as the property remains on the market.

No component of the Pack should be more than 12 months old on the day the property goes on sale. For more details, see the regulations on the industry site.

http://www.homeinformationpacks.gov.uk/con..._questions.html

So basically, not worth the paper they are written, no wonder the VI's are in a tizzy. :lol::lol:

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All you Pro HIPs people on here - answer me a question. A question which has been asked since the first moment the HIPs idea was conceived.

Let's say the market is slow - it seems to be around here at the moment if I am not mistaken. The bigger stuff is beginning to stick again.

I have in my hand an estate agent's details of a property. It has been on the market since February.

Let's pretend HIPs is already in place.

I make an offer and it is accepted.

Now, the searches in the HIP would have been done in the first week or two of February. It is now nearly the end of May. So those searches are nearly 3 months old.

My question is - how old will searches have to be before you decide - as a buyer - they are out of date and you are going to have your own (new) ones done?

Obviously, this will vary. If you are buying a house in the middle of a large housing estate - maybe you will think there can't be anything in the searches that would worry you. But what if the council agreed last week to make the road the estate is next to a dual carriageway and you'd have to turn left onto it and drive two miles out of your way before you could turn back to go to work etc. etc.

The house whose details I refer to is on a long road - in a 'non-estate' position. For all I know there might have been a recent planning application to put a petrol station next door. I wouldn't trust the searches - and would instruct my solicitor to do them again.

So the vendor will have paid for searches in the HIP.

I will then pay again.

No time will have been saved.

The professionals in the industry have been pointing this out since the moment HIPs were conceived but the government thinks, as always, it knows better.

All your questions are answered in the materials that the Home Inspectors use for their preparation. They are covering all the bases and all the situations that you can image to appear in the future.

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Why would any prospective buyer NOT ask to see the HIP? :blink:

I mean, from the buyers perspective it’s a free and informative guide to what they’re buying. Plus they might just like to see one for the first time because they’re new.

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