ccc Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Gold miners / producers use a LOT of energy (OIL) so it's affecting their margins, but yes I agree gold miners look cheap. This was also mentioned on the CommodityWatch Radio broadcast Well worth a listen: http://commoditywatch.podbean.com/ Cheers I will have a listen to that later. I appreciate costs will rise and effect profits no matter what the oil price is. BUT most gold stocks have pretty much remained at the same level while gold has been shooting up quite a lot. This has been different to other big movements in the price of gold I have been watching over the last 6 months.... Oh well all fun and games, let's see what happens !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ccc Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 To get finance, many gold mining companies sold forward (at fixed, lower prices) many years worth of their gold production.They are now squeezed by rising extraction prices and can't benefit from rising gold prices. Actually, rising gold prices will make them go bust. You want to make damn sure you only invest in truly unhedged companies (those who don't sell forward or enter any sort of gold derivative transaction with their financing banks). Ok cheers. But that sort of flies in the face of most of the reasons I have heard for buying gold stocks in the first place. All of North America's most popular gold mining stocks are falling or sitting flat recently even though the price has gone through the roof for the past few days. So according to your logic all these companies are not actually benefitting from the rising price of what they are producing ? Barrick GoldCorp Kinross Newmont Silverado Can that be true ? The problem I have is I have been watching the price of these shares in the last 3 months compared to Gold. Result: Gold shoots up = Shareprice shoots up. Gold shoots down = Shareprice shoots down. Very simple so far. This time it is completely different. Has something happened, why has the logic suddenly changed ? Or have I missed something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest_chris c-t_* Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Ok cheers. But that sort of flies in the face of most of the reasons I have heard for buying gold stocks in the first place. All of North America's most popular gold mining stocks are falling or sitting flat recently even though the price has gone through the roof for the past few days. So according to your logic all these companies are not actually benefitting from the rising price of what they are producing ? Barrick GoldCorp Kinross Newmont Silverado Can that be true ? The problem I have is I have been watching the price of these shares in the last 3 months compared to Gold. Result: Gold shoots up = Shareprice shoots up. Gold shoots down = Shareprice shoots down. Very simple so far. This time it is completely different. Has something happened, why has the logic suddenly changed ? Or have I missed something. Well, you might be about to become very rich! (might) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goldfinger Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Barrick... Or have I missed something. Aren't Barricks those guys who lost billions from their stupid hedge-collaboration with the central bank gold-suppression cartel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ccc Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Most of what you hear about gold and gold mining companies is self-serving spin. A few places with more honest than average gold info: http://www.gata.org http://www.jsmineset.com http://www.goldmoney.com/en/commentary.php I was starting to think that !! Cheers for the links above I will have a look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drminky Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I was starting to think that !! Cheers for the links above I will have a look. http://www.kitco.com/pop_windows/stocks/hui.html The companies that make up the HUI are a good place to start into the world of gold stocks (if you think the price is going up, that's why they call it the 'gold bugs index'). Because these companies are largely unhedged, they should perform better than the Barricks of the world as the POG rises.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ccc Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 http://www.kitco.com/pop_windows/stocks/hui.htmlThe companies that make up the HUI are a good place to start into the world of gold stocks (if you think the price is going up, that's why they call it the 'gold bugs index'). Because these companies are largely unhedged, they should perform better than the Barricks of the world as the POG rises.. Cheers. Lucky the one I chose is on that list. And #1 at the moment as well. Nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Ok, when will the mini-correction come? Tomorrow? Next week? It always happens when new records are broken, I'd sell and re-buy if the costs of doing so weren't so darn expensive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 http://www.jsmineset.com This site provides top quality advice about how to protect yourself. Gold is going to $1650+. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
urban_hymn Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Fantastic day for gold shares - Barrick up over 9%, HUI up over 6% on a day when the DOW30 is down 227 points!!!! Hopefully the gold stocks are beginning to decouple from the broad stock markets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest_chris c-t_* Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I was starting to think that !! Cheers for the links above I will have a look. Are you rich yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dopamine Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Fantastic day for gold shares - Barrick up over 9%, HUI up over 6% on a day when the DOW30 is down 227 points!!!!Hopefully the gold stocks are beginning to decouple from the broad stock markets. Yes - I've been buying etf silver over the last few months and am planning on topping up my position in AU before the end of the week. My predicament is whether to put it in ML Gold and General (I already have some of this) or whether to buy more PHAU (Gold etf). I am very bearish on equities at the mo and it is true that gold shares were sold off along with everything else in last year's turbulence (although have made it all back since), but it's also true that the gains could outstrip the price of AU itself, and given that I think AU could push £1000 this year, that's a significant potential return (could be 50% on some stocks easily IMHO). Trouble is, we'll only know what will happen to gold shares when the DOW really tanks and by then it's too late. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) A few gold thoughts from Richard Russell (322gold.com) You don't time your gold purchases, you simply accumulate gold. Gold is pure tangible wealth and therefore it can never go bankrupt. In contrast, no fiat currency has ever survived the passage of time. All fiat currencies eventually become worthless in that over time they lose almost all of their purchasing power. Edited January 2, 2008 by Errol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Last Avenue Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Gold peaked at 861.10 at just after 1700 GMT according to Kitco - in other words 1 hour after London trading closed. Why then does the FT website report: Gold led the initial advance, rising 3.3 per cent to $861.10 a troy ounce, surpassing the previous high of $850 reached in January 1980. The metal later eased back to $858.10 in late London trading. Can some kind soul point me in the direction of understanding why I don't understand this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HovelinHove Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) If Gold only just passed its last record, which was set in 1980, then surely it is either a very poor long term investment, or it is hideously undervalued, but then how do you value something that has very little material use other than to stick in a vault as a form of currency? Unlike many other commodities like oil or other investments like land, which actually have an intrinisic value to human survival and prosperity, Gold doesn't really. Saying that, most people don't think and if, as we expect, the dollar and pound are going down the toilet, people will go for Gold because that's what they've always done. Think it's better not to think too much sometimes. Edited January 2, 2008 by HovelinHove Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest grumpy-old-man Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 If Gold only just past its last record, which was set in 1980, then surely it is either a very poor long term investment, or it is hideously undervalued, but then how do you value something that has very little material use other than to stick in a vault as a form of currency? Unlike many other commodities like oil or other investments like land, they actually have an intrinisic value to human survival and prosperity, but Gold doesn't really. Saying that, most people don't think and if, as we expect, the dollar and pound are going down the toilet, people will go for Gold because that's what they've always done. Think it's better not to think too much sometimes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest_chris c-t_* Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 If Gold only just passed its last record, which was set in 1980, then surely it is either a very poor long term investment, or it is hideously undervalued, but then how do you value something that has very little material use other than to stick in a vault as a form of currency? Unlike many other commodities like oil or other investments like land, which actually have an intrinisic value to human survival and prosperity, Gold doesn't really. Saying that, most people don't think and if, as we expect, the dollar and pound are going down the toilet, people will go for Gold because that's what they've always done. Think it's better not to think too much sometimes. Gold is arguably the deepest market in the world. You could be lost in the Amazon, and some tribesman would give you food and shelter (probably for free) but surely for a sov or two! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trompe le monde Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) Nice to see the golden goose taking wing, but with hindsight, back in '03, I'd have probably gone for some of this too: http://www.kitco.com/charts/rhodium.html TLM edit to add link Edited January 2, 2008 by trompe le monde Quote Link to post Share on other sites
libélula Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hey gold experts, some advice if you can. Firstly I only know of etfs which are traded in dollars - so are you all counting on sterling dropping in a similar way to the dollar to make up for holding gold in dollars? Secondly is there a etf which is traded in euros and what do you think of buying gold in a currency other than the dollar, if indeed one can??? Thirdly is GBS.l an OK eft and why do none of you seem to mention it? Many thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goldfinger Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 ... Unlike many other commodities like oil or other investments like land, which actually have an intrinisic value to human survival and prosperity, Gold doesn't really. ... The very common lie/misunderstanding that gold has no 'intrinsic' value was exposed several hundred pages back in this thread. Gold has value for it's own sake because many other metals could be substituted by gold if they were not much cheaper, and gold has all the physical properties 'real' i.e. 'natural' money needs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goldfinger Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Nice to see the golden goose taking wing, but with hindsight, back in '03, I'd have probably gone for some of this too: This is how gold would have developed (or more) wouldn't it be 'managed' by central banks. In the unfolding financial meltdown gold will catch up, and possibly even overshoot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy_joe Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Bullionvault.com has gold at £14000/kg in their New York vault. I can go to bed now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
narco Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Bullionvault.com has gold at £14000/kg in their New York vault. I can go to bed now Good morning. £437.77 Edited January 3, 2008 by narco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goldfinger Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Good morning.£437.77 Would really deserve a rocket. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
narco Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Pressure is growing on the Bank of England for another cut in interest rates next week. Consumers face soaring petrol bills while their spending is being squeezed by higher mortgage payments and rising energy bills. So why does inflationary concern put pressure on the BOE to cut rates? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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