Downing Street Petition

[Carabansity]

What with the fuss created by the Road Tax petition how many of us had a look further?

I did and found this;

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/limit-buy2let/

Seems sensible to me, BTL has hoovered up many of the cheaper properties.

Only 47 signatures at the moment!

[Guest_ringledman_*]

Yeah lets limit how much we all get paid and limit how much travel we are all allowed to do. And how about it lets limit our consumables, our tv, our contact with others.

You sad sad people. We don't live in a communist state thank god.

Everyone is free to do what they want and buy what they want and if that means a load of BTL properties then good luck to them.

Your 'jealous of others attititude' will get you nowhere in life.

[Guest_ringledman_*]

and no I'm not a BTL investor. I just hate this hard done for attitude.

[Leodhasach]

Yeah lets limit how much we all get paid and limit how much travel we are all allowed to do. And how about it lets limit our consumables, our tv, our contact with others.

You sad sad people. We don't live in a communist state thank god.

Everyone is free to do what they want and buy what they want and if that means a load of BTL properties then good luck to them.

Your 'jealous of others attititude' will get you nowhere in life.

I think the phrase you're grasping for is "every man for himself....and devil take hindmost"

[Guest_ringledman_*]

I think the phrase you're grasping for is "every man for himself....and devil take hindmost"

Not at all. Its about people controlling their own destiny and having an internal locus of control.

People who blame others for having more (i.e. BTL) or being more successfull in a certain area of life generally never succeed. They always blame others for their failings.

And no being successful is not about being greedy or being selfish in life. You can mix wealth and charity.

[The Eagle]

I thing ringledman has a point, the petition is badly targeted, you can't just limit the number of properties someone can own, at least not in a free market economy like the UK.

What the petition should have asked for though (and what's much more legitimate) is to heavily tax any home owned by anyone that is not their primary residence.

This could be for example an annual tax of 5% of the market value of the property and these funds should then be used by law to finance social housing (to let out by the councils to people on low incomes, not just the unemployed AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE SOLD OFF TO THE TENNANTS!!)

In order to avoid that landlords just set up limited companies to avoid the taxes, the same tax should apply also to all residential property owned by companies.

[Sledgehead]

Somebody needs to get Lily-limit-buy-to-let-Allen involved with that petition. She has 170,000 myspace friends for starters.

[mickeymouse]

I thing ringledman has a point, the petition is badly targeted, you can't just limit the number of properties someone can own, at least not in a free market economy like the UK.

What the petition should have asked for though (and what's much more legitimate) is to heavily tax any home owned by anyone that is not their primary residence.

This could be for example an annual tax of 5% of the market value of the property and these funds should then be used by law to finance social housing (to let out by the councils to people on low incomes, not just the unemployed AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE SOLD OFF TO THE TENNANTS!!)

In order to avoid that landlords just set up limited companies to avoid the taxes, the same tax should apply also to all residential property owned by companies.

That is very unfair, next you will be just shoving a 5% tax on shares or any other investment you care to think of just because people dont own them. If anything the govt via the FSA should come down hard against the lending institutions that lend out money irresponsibly. The BTLer are not responsible for HPI, there are just as many owner occupiers who have mewed themselves to the hilt, why not petition against them?

And also in this day and age quite often people do own two homes out of work commitments rather than investment purposes.

[mickeymouse]

Not at all. Its about people controlling their own destiny and having an internal locus of control.

People who blame others for having more (i.e. BTL) or being more successfull in a certain area of life generally never succeed. They always blame others for their failings.

And no being successful is not about being greedy or being selfish in life. You can mix wealth and charity.

Totally agree there are some very frustrated people on this site who are targetting the wrong people. Try getting the govt to devise policies to build more houses.

[DoctorJ]

Somebody needs to get Lily-limit-buy-to-let-Allen involved with that petition. She has 170,000 myspace friends for starters.

I watched that too Her basis for teenage angst was an inability to get on the property ladder. Let it go love!

[Badger]

Not at all. Its about people controlling their own destiny and having an internal locus of control.

People who blame others for having more (i.e. BTL) or being more successfull in a certain area of life generally never succeed. They always blame others for their failings.

And no being successful is not about being greedy or being selfish in life. You can mix wealth and charity.

What, like Tony Blair saying the mess in Iraq isn't his fault There's nothing wrong in reigning in out of control greed for the sake of those less fortunate tory boy.

[talksalot81]

It is every man for himself here so I agree with the petition. If someone were to do something about it then I would have an increased chance of getting onto the ladder. This is my only concern. I do not care that it is not fair on those poor BTL individuals, they do not care about me, why should I give a toss about them? This would be in my best interest at this point in time.

[enworb]

I was in Canada until yesterday so I don't know how many signed the petition re: road tolls/big brother for motorists.

But when I last checked there were 1.4M, all of which the government were going to totally ignore and still go ahead. Not sure when but if they want it to it will, regardless.

Considering the Gov make a lot of money from BTL'ers by taxing them up to 40% on capital gains, I think they'll be ignoring those that sign this petition...and it certainly won't get as much response as the other petition.

[ae589]

and no I'm not a BTL investor. I just hate this hard done for attitude.

Any thinking society rewards actions that contribute to the betterment of that society as a whole and penalises actions that are detrimental to that society. HPI is not a wealth generator, whereas investment and entrepreneurialism are.

Simply wanting to alter the rules to reflect that is progressive.

[Nick..]

People who blame others for having more (i.e. BTL) or being more successfull

Taking out multiple IO BTL mortgages does not make you successful, we could all do that tomorrow

It makes you a selfish cretin

[cells]

Yeah lets limit how much we all get paid and limit how much travel we are all allowed to do. And how about it lets limit our consumables, our tv, our contact with others.

You sad sad people. We don't live in a communist state thank god.

Everyone is free to do what they want and buy what they want and if that means a load of BTL properties then good luck to them.

Your 'jealous of others attititude' will get you nowhere in life.

if a certain billionaire bought all the food in all the supermarkets for a month you would be fine with that?

there would be hunger and probably people dieing from that action, but hey were not communists

There are laws stopping people from hording vital supplies, you can not go into your local tesco and buy up all the bread for instance and resell it at a higher price

[The Eagle]

That is very unfair, next you will be just shoving a 5% tax on shares or any other investment you care to think of just because people dont own them. If anything the govt via the FSA should come down hard against the lending institutions that lend out money irresponsibly.

Shares are not necessary to live, a house is, so your comparison doesn't make sense at all.

And before you argue that home ownership is not a right (to which I agree), it is the fact that current tenancy laws are massively in favour of the landlord, that makes it very unfair for FTBs.

If tenancy laws in the UK would protect the tenants like in Germany then I agree, there would be no need to own your own home.

Therefore there is a need to rebalance laws in favour of FTBs/tenants and a tax on second home ownership (which exists in other European countries) would do that.

And also in this day and age quite often people do own two homes out of work commitments rather than investment purposes.

Yeah right, if they own a second home out of work commitments, then they always also did it as an investment otherwise they could have just rented it.

[enworb]

Taking out multiple IO BTL mortgages does not make you successful, we could all do that tomorrow

It makes you a selfish cretin

Not true. Not everyone has the minimum 15% (sometimes as much as 30%) deposit to take out a btl mortgage.

And making money to provide a better life for your family does not make anybody a cretin.

Like anything, it's down to how a btl'er conducts himself that determines if he is a cretin or not.

[Guest muttley]

The BTLer are not responsible for HPI, there are just as many owner occupiers who have mewed themselves to the hilt, why not petition against them?

BTL must have had some effect on HPI. I fail to see how MEWing has.

I'm a free marketeer myself, but I don't believe that the market should be allowed to damage the economy. If BTL continues indefinitely, then young people will have less incentive to work hard and may seek opportunities abroad.

As P J O'Rourke said, "There has to be more to democracy than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner"

[Guest pioneer31]

Yeah lets limit how much we all get paid and limit how much travel we are all allowed to do. And how about it lets limit our consumables, our tv, our contact with others.

You sad sad people. We don't live in a communist state thank god.

Everyone is free to do what they want and buy what they want and if that means a load of BTL properties then good luck to them.

Your 'jealous of others attititude' will get you nowhere in life.

Edited February 23, 2007 by pioneer31

[Guest pioneer31]

Not at all. Its about people controlling their own destiny and having an internal locus of control.

People who blame others for having more (i.e. BTL) or being more successfull in a certain area of life generally never succeed. They always blame others for their failings.

And no being successful is not about being greedy or being selfish in life. You can mix wealth and charity.

What have sky high house prices got to do with being successful in life?

I have a good enough job.

Housing is different from nearly every other resource. It is LIMITED. Therefore, we can be held to ransom.

Get it?

[Guest pioneer31]

Not at all. Its about people controlling their own destiny and having an internal locus of control.

People who blame others for having more (i.e. BTL) or being more successfull in a certain area of life generally never succeed.

how does BTL represent success? Do you have to pass exams? Train for years?

The people doing it are BORROWING the money. They can't afford it anymore than I can- and that's the irony of it all

[Guest pioneer31]

Totally agree there are some very frustrated people on this site who are targetting the wrong people. Try getting the govt to devise policies to build more houses.

You'll wait a long time. Not sure it would help anyway. BTL would hoover them up too.

We need to make housing a ROTTEN investment. Then, perhaps, we can use them to live in. What a novel idea!

[Jimmy James]

There are only 68 signatories... come on people! We can do better than this!

[Nick..]

Not true. Not everyone has the minimum 15% (sometimes as much as 30%) deposit to take out a btl mortgage.

And making money to provide a better life for your family does not make anybody a cretin.

Like anything, it's down to how a btl'er conducts himself that determines if he is a cretin or not.

Yes, the deposit requirement obviously rules out everyone but the boomers or their children

But so long as your families alright, eh