Current Home Owners - Would You Str?

[Without_a_Paddle]

You have run away numerous times , as far as using the site goes i'm not interested in trawling through your old posts like you have done with me , many of your posts will be boring anyway { YAWNNNNNNNNN } and just read of you pick pick picking away at someone .

I am not missing the point of the thread at all it's me that STM 'd so i think i'm in a better posistion to judge those situations than someone like you whose not done it yet attempts to put everyone down who has done it , and for the last time I'M F/ING GLAD I DID IT AND I'VE DONE WELL OUT OF IT TO , but please go ahead and all but call me a liar or fool .

Also i would like you to apologise ( as if you would ) for calling me a racist , i noticed you ignored my point of my black friend helping me move , i NEVER judge anyone by the colour .

Finally as for Boscombe go there , have a weeks holiday there and then tell us what you think of it , one things for sure you wouldn't want to be going back there .

Well if I am a runaway then how come I'm still here on this thread?

I'm also getting some stick from a moderator on this thread if you hadn't noticed... (and I'm giving back as good as I get)

So please give examples that show me to be a regular runaway. You are just making this up just like you are pretending to not be a racist.

Also i would like you to apologise ( as if you would ) for calling me a racist, i noticed you ignored my point of my black friend helping me move , i NEVER judge anyone by the colour

Are you serious?

BTW getting someone of another race to help you move house is not a very good example of your 'non racism'.

Greyshark: i NEVER judge anyone by the colour....

Greyshark: If i go to my local hospital or even the doctors it feels like i'm at the league of nations FFS and what do they bring ? it's f/ing flooded round here

[grey shark]

Well if I am a runaway then how come I'm still here on this thread?

I'm also getting some stick from a moderator on this thread if you hadn't noticed... (and I'm giving back as good as I get)

So please give examples that show me to be a regular runaway. You are just making this up just like you are pretending to not be a racist.

Are you serious?

BTW getting someone of another race to help you move house is not a very good example of your 'non racism'.

Yes this time your hanging around , a bit like a bad smell , the moderator dealt with you rather well i thought , what you gave back was poor .

I see your desperatly going through my old posts , that really feels like someone rifling through my personal files , not nice .

As for my comment you dug up regarding our local hospital i'm telling at it is , it is full of newly arrived white and black people most not speaking any english just coming here abusing the country and we're paying for it , it's not only the hospital , the doctors , local schools and best of all the daily queue outside the citizens advice bureau every morning , yes that might come across to some like you as racist but i see it more as a p1ss take , obviously your comfortable with the constant stream of immigrants to this country and no doubt you would like even more to flood in other wise you would be moaning about it as well not trying to put those down who have had enough of it .

Anyway lets sit back and watch our country and culture erode away , but at least your happy with the way we're going .

[Kebab]

The problem is MOST people don't understand the STR posistion at all , they just think your doing it to try and sell at the top of the market then buy cheaper if the market falls therefore keeping any in - between profit , this is not the case for most STR's or STM's each case is differant , but hotheads like Kebab can't get there head round this and are completly ignorant of people situations but just assume that they know best , good luck with your decision .

I dont think the accusation "hothead" is justified.

Also, i would hold off calling people ignorant - your post has at least five spelling mistakes in it.

[Kebab]

Typical ignorant bigoted all knowing reply from some who ASSUMES they know everybody elses posistion and that everyone is doing it wrong .

Remarkable GS. Pots and kettles me thinks.

[Kebab]

So you are nothing but a smart @rse busybody who spends huge amounts of time "picking apart" other people's posts just for fun. You really are a very sad individual.

GS seems a dab hand at this himself.

[Guest The_Oldie]

Perhaps kebab could answer my question on this thread... http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...42444&st=30

The sell to rent Jonahs are losing themselves a fortune while feeding the investment of the BTL landlords who they rent from - how we laughed!!!

At least the majority of STR/STMs are open regarding their position . You BTL landlords must be getting rather worried to spend so much time trolling a forum called Housepricecrash .

The BTL landlord who owns the house I'm renting isn't doing too well. Estimated current "value" £375 - £400K, rent £900 PCM, service charges paid by LL £1,200 PA, agents fee paid by LL 10%? do the sums .

As a matter of interest, how many names do you post under on this forum?

[Kebab]

Perhaps kebab could answer my question on this thread... http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...42444&st=30

Is the question "How many names do i post under?"

Gosh, thats hard, let me think, wait for it....hang on its coming to me.......errr....only the one.

Dont tell me Oldie - because i disagree with you on occasion i must be a troll?

[grey shark]

I dont think the accusation "hothead" is justified.

Also, i would hold off calling people ignorant - your post has at least five spelling mistakes in it.

I can see one spelling mistake in there , but then i never passed english O level anyway , so it's just as well i was good at business isn't kebab , anyway check the forum your find 100's of spelling mistakes everyday .

As for you being a hothead well i've seen you've pi55ed off a few regulars already and after 4 days you've amassed nearly 100 posts almost all being just a few worthless words , example of this being your 3 posts in a line on here , keep it up anyway you should be at a 1,000 in a few weeks , that'll really prove how empty your life is

[Guest The_Oldie]

Is the question "How many names do i post under?"

Gosh, thats hard, let me think, wait for it....hang on its coming to me.......errr....only the one.

Dont tell me Oldie - because i disagree with you on occasion i must be a troll?

Fair enough, the other posters using your work IP address must be some of your little friends having a laugh then.

Never mind, you are obviously just another worried BTL landlord who thinks that trolling this forum will make his problems go away.

[grey shark]

Is the question "How many names do i post under?"

Gosh, thats hard, let me think, wait for it....hang on its coming to me.......errr....only the one.

Dont tell me Oldie - because i disagree with you on occasion i must be a troll?

OH dear looks like you've been well and truly KEBABED

[Tiggy]

I don't feel STRing is some kind of secret society at all , so don't start accusing me of such things , it is rather complex as EACH CASE IS DIFFERANT , look at Tiggy's post last night , written by someone who is very new to the forum and clearly doesn't understand STR ing .

Grey Shark - please do not assume that a new contributor to the forum will lack an understanding of the issues and the available options.

[Kebab]

Fair enough, the other posters using your work IP address must be some of your little friends having a laugh then.

Carefull here Mr Moderator - you cant intimate on this forum any knowledge of my internet IP and you certainly cant make derogatory comments ("little friends") about my work colleagues.

[Guest The_Oldie]

Carefull here Mr Moderator - you cant intimate on this forum any knowledge of my internet IP and you certainly cant make derogatory comments ("little friends") about my work colleagues.

Bye!

[grey shark]

Grey Shark - please do not assume that a new contributor to the forum will lack an understanding of the issues and the available options.

Tiggy i did not assume anything this was your post from last night ........

"I don't think STR ing is a great idea. If you are ok where you are and have a decent amount of equity in the property, you should be able to sit tight through a downturn. By the time you manage to sell, the place you buy next with a bit of luck should also have fallen in price. "

It indicated to me that YOU think all /most STR's do it to try to profit from a falling market , i don't believe that to be the case most do it because

1) They sell first then rent as they want to move away from there area .

2) They sell because their job moves so they rent .

3) They sell for personal reasons such as splitting up so they rent .

4) Then there are those who try to make a profit out of a falling market , just like there are those who try to make a profit from a rising market .

5) There will of course be many other reasons why people sell up and rent .

Welcome to the forum

Edited February 18, 2007 by grey shark

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

Gosh, thats hard, let me think, wait for it....hang on its coming to me.......errr....only the one.

Round spherical objects.

Carefull here Mr Moderator - you cant intimate on this forum any knowledge of my internet IP and you certainly cant make derogatory comments ("little friends") about my work colleagues.

Too late.

[ttjjww75]

Everyones situation must be concidered in Isolation. STR can only be decided against several factors. Size of Mortgage, Amount of Equity, Cost of Renting, Costs of Selling, Costs of Rebuying, Life Circumstances, Your Ambition, Interest rates, hence everyone must look at it on thier own terms. I decided not to Re-buy after selling a 2 bed Flat I owned for several years, sold June 2005...I renovated & maximised the most equity I could achieve, sold in 4 days, my stored equity was 52k. I seriously cosidered buying a 3 bed to renovate & keep with two renters feeding me an Income, but why didnt I....? easy I used a calculator.....The Mortgage £690 PCM in Intrest only @ 5.5 + maintanence £140, + other costs = £100 = £930 rental income ( 2 rooms ) = £800 but I aslo factured in a 1% interest hike in the future. Wind on to Jan 2007 & total outgoings now would be running at £1080 PCM @ 6.5% Int only...but having to pay tax on Rental Income means I would be banking £630 from my tennants I would effectivly be paying £450 PCM to keep the bandwagon rolling on Interest only!!! No repyment!!! No further BOE intervention!!! and No £247 per month into my Pocket from ICESAVE paying 5.7% on savings.......too many people from every corner of this society are to busy lulling to perception & assumption, there are not enough people willing to work out the truth.

[Without_a_Paddle]

Everyones situation must be concidered in Isolation. STR can only be decided against several factors. Size of Mortgage, Amount of Equity, Cost of Renting, Costs of Selling, Costs of Rebuying, Life Circumstances, Your Ambition, Interest rates, hence everyone must look at it on thier own terms. I decided not to Re-buy after selling a 2 bed Flat I owned for several years, sold June 2005...I renovated & maximised the most equity I could achieve, sold in 4 days, my stored equity was 52k. I seriously cosidered buying a 3 bed to renovate & keep with two renters feeding me an Income, but why didnt I....? easy I used a calculator.....The Mortgage £690 PCM in Intrest only @ 5.5 + maintanence £140, + other costs = £100 = £930 rental income ( 2 rooms ) = £800 but I aslo factured in a 1% interest hike in the future. Wind on to Jan 2007 & total outgoings now would be running at £1080 PCM @ 6.5% Int only...but having to pay tax on Rental Income means I would be banking £630 from my tennants I would effectivly be paying £450 PCM to keep the bandwagon rolling on Interest only!!! No repyment!!! No further BOE intervention!!! and No £247 per month into my Pocket from ICESAVE paying 5.7% on savings.......too many people from every corner of this society are to busy lulling to perception & assumption, there are not enough people willing to work out the truth.

Don't forget to include tax on the £247pm interest or 18 months of HPI in your calculation. (on a £200k house this would be a £20k gain)

Have you heard of fixed rate mortgages?

I would effectivly be paying £450 PCM to keep the bandwagon rolling on Interest only!!! No repyment!!!

So your solution to this is to rent a property? IMO your bandwagon has now lost its wheels and your STR stash is being seriously eroded by HPI.

In terms of houses it's probably gone down 40%. (because of the leverage you could have had as a homeowner with 10-13% HPI on maybe £200k)

there are not enough people willing to work out the truth

The truth is staring you in the face. Try buying that 3 bed semi TODAY and see how much easier it was 18 months ago on a long term fix at sub 5% IR.

To get that opportunity back you will have to wait for prices to FALL back maybe 10% and IRs will have to fall back to 2005 levels.

That may never happen. prices might fall 10% (UK average) within 2 years but the IR might not.

Also you will have lost 3 years. So do the sums on a 22 year mortgage instead of 25 to compare monthly costs.

I seriously cosidered buying a 3 bed to renovate & keep with two renters feeding me an Income, but why didnt I....? easy I used a calculator.....

Sounds like a good plan if you can tolerate the two co habiters. If you had renovated the place and sold it on today just think how much profit you would have made... Edited February 19, 2007 by Without_a_Paddle

[ttjjww75]

I can see where you are going in looking at the Idea of Capital appreciation, but this is where your assumptions fall down, yes I think you will deffinetly see a 10% HPI for London if you live in Richmond Chelsea Kensington & the Like but this isnt the case! In ordinary Suburbs of London not entrenched by the super rich HPI is non existant, I would estimate even Refurbing the 3bed & it Id had it up for Sale the differential between Purchase Price & sale price would be £20,000 but you still have to subtract purchase costs say £4000 selling costs £4000 mortgage over say 4-5 months £4000 + expenses on renovation, lets say £4000 cor convenience of a tight budget! that my freind = £16000, so my net loss in your opinion is £4000. should I be crying all the way to the bank.....

try looking at this link & tell me if I made the wrong decision

http://www.findaproperty.com/searchresults...x=78&f.y=15

now to balance out the story this is the price that It sold for back in 2005

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=23+cecil+cr0&n=10

I dont believe for one moment that HPI is running at 10% because I look at and understand my local market here in South London

maybe it is just because it is not awash with City bonuses or International buyers, but this is a property market operated by ordinary people with

ordinary incomes, I base my judgement of HPI on reality not front pages or scewed data from the likes of Right move, I have seen many scandelous

curruptions of data in this area, so I can only assume it happens elsewhere too. Thier are plays going on that would make peoples hair curl if they only knew the truth.

[ttjjww75]

sorry first link doesnt work so well, but adjust fields for 3 bed flats within 1 mile of CR0 5LA ( post code the nearest I can find to East Croydon train station )

the nearest comparisson to the flat I could have bought is up at £199,950 fully refurbed! so paddle boy whos convinced of 10%HPI you tell me Ive missed the boat?

[grey shark]

I can see where you are going in looking at the Idea of Capital appreciation, but this is where your assumptions fall down, yes I think you will deffinetly see a 10% HPI for London if you live in Richmond Chelsea Kensington & the Like but this isnt the case! In ordinary Suburbs of London not entrenched by the super rich HPI is non existant, I would estimate even Refurbing the 3bed & it Id had it up for Sale the differential between Purchase Price & sale price would be £20,000 but you still have to subtract purchase costs say £4000 selling costs £4000 mortgage over say 4-5 months £4000 + expenses on renovation, lets say £4000 cor convenience of a tight budget! that my freind = £16000, so my net loss in your opinion is £4000. should I be crying all the way to the bank.....

try looking at this link & tell me if I made the wrong decision

http://www.findaproperty.com/searchresults...x=78&f.y=15

now to balance out the story this is the price that It sold for back in 2005

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=23+cecil+cr0&n=10

I dont believe for one moment that HPI is running at 10% because I look at and understand my local market here in South London

maybe it is just because it is not awash with City bonuses or International buyers, but this is a property market operated by ordinary people with

ordinary incomes, I base my judgement of HPI on reality not front pages or scewed data from the likes of Right move, I have seen many scandelous

curruptions of data in this area, so I can only assume it happens elsewhere too. Thier are plays going on that would make peoples hair curl if they only knew the truth.

Excellent post written by someone who knows the score , my favourite part of your post is .........................

"but this is where your assumptions fall down, " refering to paddle boy , he's just full of assumptions not to mention accusations , he believes he knows it all .

Your thoughts on London HPI are similar to mine , here in the boring borough of Harrow

Prices peaked in early 2004 then stagnated .

2005 stagnation then slipping by end of year .

2006 prices have rebounded back to early 2004 prices , so YOY here HPI looks pretty good , but over 3 years it's basically zero .

Stuff the data , i have brochures from 03 to 04 from local agents and the same type of houses in the same roads are selling for the same money ..........yawn { dozens of examples too }. Although i accept currently most things are selling pretty quickly { just think of the huge mortgages }

You write your area data is scandalous and corrupt , i agree , just like i agree that central London and the flash parts of London HAVE seen big amounts of HPI .

[wotnocrash]

Excellent post written by someone who knows the score , my favourite part of your post is .........................

"but this is where your assumptions fall down, " refering to paddle boy , he's just full of assumptions not to mention accusations , he believes he knows it all .

Your thoughts on London HPI are similar to mine , here in the boring borough of Harrow

Prices peaked in early 2004 then stagnated .

2005 stagnation then slipping by end of year .

2006 prices have rebounded back to early 2004 prices , so YOY here HPI looks pretty good , but over 3 years it's basically zero .

Stuff the data , i have brochures from 03 to 04 from local agents and the same type of houses in the same roads are selling for the same money ..........yawn { dozens of examples too }. Although i accept currently most things are selling pretty quickly { just think of the huge mortgages }

You write your area data is scandalous and corrupt , i agree , just like i agree that central London and the flash parts of London HAVE seen big amounts of HPI .

According to the latest report from rightmove, both croydon and harrow do show amongst the lowest HPI in all of London, which might explain what you are seeing. Their report does show though that it is not just the flash parts that are seeing big rises. According to this report my own area (Haringey) is up 23% and this is broadly in line with what I am seeing.

[ttjjww75]

thanks GS I have not liked reading the deconstructive comments of without a paddle, perhaps he is just a very disgruntled Proffessional, of which type I have no idea, but the main topic not to be forgotten is STR or not. My situation is exclusivly different from everyone elses but thats the point, everyone needs to make informed decissions about what is best for them. And this is possibly what makes the difference now, "Sentiment" & has the tide of Sentiment changed? of course it has & is ever changing, Property is facing its biggest crisis since late 1980's early 90's & there is not indidual one piece of factual evidence that can be pointed at to cause concearn. Apart from Interest rates, unaffordability, inflation, unemployment, Immigration & rising taxes. somewhere in this mix will lie everyones own sentiment on the market & here is the crux of anyones personnel situation. This is a great website for sharing experiences, perceptions & ideas not ramming ideas down peoples throat or disecting another persons view. I Sold to Rent, thats my peroggative, thats not to say I would not stop looking at investment oppurtunities, be it property, Gold, shares, Yachts or Acres on the Moon.

[grey shark]

thanks GS I have not liked reading the deconstructive comments of without a paddle, perhaps he is just a very disgruntled Proffessional, of which type I have no idea, but the main topic not to be forgotten is STR or not. My situation is exclusivly different from everyone elses but thats the point, everyone needs to make informed decissions about what is best for them. And this is possibly what makes the difference now, "Sentiment" & has the tide of Sentiment changed? of course it has & is ever changing, Property is facing its biggest crisis since late 1980's early 90's & there is not indidual one piece of factual evidence that can be pointed at to cause concearn. Apart from Interest rates, unaffordability, inflation, unemployment, Immigration & rising taxes. somewhere in this mix will lie everyones own sentiment on the market & here is the crux of anyones personnel situation. This is a great website for sharing experiences, perceptions & ideas not ramming ideas down peoples throat or disecting another persons view. I Sold to Rent, thats my peroggative, thats not to say I would not stop looking at investment oppurtunities, be it property, Gold, shares, Yachts or Acres on the Moon.

Yes i find myself agreeing most of that , as you say all STR situations are DIFFERANT some win some will lose .Paddle boy's got some sort of problem particularly STR's i don't know what it is exactly , but he comes across as some sort of frustrated VI , he's always spouting and trying to find fault with others , just use him as a toy , i do .

Perhaps a future investment oppurtunity could be PADDLES , supplying them to those that ain't got one

Wishfulthinking , glad to see you partly agree with Harrow and Croydon HPI , both non trendy boring places , i'm still waiting for you to choose one of those Cheltenham houses , which one you want then

Not back now till this evening , cya .

[zag2me]

No way would I ever intentionally STR, it seems like a good option but in reality you might as well go down the casino and put 50k on black or red.

I can understand why people do it when moving jobs or locations, but to do it for purely financial reasons is crazy. You just cant time it well, the odds of getting it right are very small.

Whats worse is that people do it with their family homes, I mean how horrible is that, putting your families future at risk on a hunch.

[mattpascoe]

I bought in late 2005. Since then, I've kept a very close watch on prices, both locally/within greater London and nationally. At present the jury seems to be out on the future direction of interest rates, as well as the effect the past three increases will ultimately have.

My question is: if HPI goes (looks like it will go) YoY negative in Q4 07 or Q1 08, would you STR? Also, does any one think it would be too late by this point in the cycle to emerge unscathed? If not, what kind of discount to Jan 2007 prices would be required to shift the property?

A loose question. A married couple who bought in at the bottom with 2 kids in tow, probably and most definately wouldn't, even though the financial outcome would be massively advantageous for them. "We've got a house and thats all that matters" attitude.

A single man who is a bit older and wiser having seen similar situations in the past probably would, and should.