MarkG Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The weird thing is that there has never been any documented case of a steel and concrete building collapsing in that manner. The weird thing is, that there has never been any documented case of a similar building to the WTC being hit by a large airliner at 500mph. God, not another '9/11 skeptic' thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Review what happened after 9/11 and what happened after the Reichstag fire. Spooky stuff. Yeah. It worked for the NeoCons didn't it! They won another term in office. I think the real motive is bigger than that though. The democrats and Republicans are just puppets of the same hierachy. It doesn't matter which party is running America now. It's just a front for the Federal Reserve system. It's no different here either. There is no real choice between the political parties anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickingIt Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Barking mad the lot of them . Crazy as a coconut . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoIdea Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The weird thing is that there has never been any documented case of a steel and concrete building collapsing in that manner. There have been numerous serious fires in skyscrapers but the heat has never been sufficient to cause such a calamtious structural failure. Steel undergoes a phase change above about 730 celcius degrees which causes it to soften and become plastic. The heat generated in the WTC fire would certainly have heated the steel to above this critical temperature but a factor of safely was designed into the building to account for an aircraft collsion and subsequent fire. It shouldn't have collapsed, certainly not in the manner that it did. The collapse of building 7 is aslo very suspicious. We are supposed to believe that it was destroyed by controlled demolition in a few hours by the NYFD. This is simply impossible. It would have taken a demolition contractor weeks to have prepared the building for demolition. I'm not definitively drawing conclusions here.....but something just doesn't smell right about 9-11 I dont believe any of this nonesense about demolition charges in WTC7 and thermite in WTC2 - it just doesn't make any logical or intuitive sense. Lets not debate it though. However, I wouldnt doubt for a moment that the administration/CIA knew about the attacks beforehand and turned a blind eye. Such an attack would have opened the door of opportunity for them with regards to the problems of energy supply - that they would have been foolish to stop it. Remember the CIA had already written proposals about staging such an event in the past. I'm not sure if Bush himself was involved but the links between his family and the Bin Laden family smell very suspicious - and him being an oil man an 'll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtfree Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Yep, a police state would be required to motivate people to workIMO this is where we are heading with 'terrorism' being used to create the systems/technologies required ...and to think - they are doing it through manipulation of currencies and a bit of PR - who'd have thought... Not far wrong there, Gordon 'tax til ya die, and more when you do' Brown wants a 'new world order' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6277747.stm Definition of 'New World Order'.....? The collapse of the Communism bloc and end of the cold war brought about a call for a "New World Order". Most vocal was US president George Bush. Opponents saw it as a one-world govt headed by US or transnationals, oppressing the public through military means and a restriction on individual freedoms like movement or speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 You are indeed a tad naive, and it seems to me as mad as a March hare.If you genuinely believe this - you my friend ARE a nutcase ! that's, not much of a counter argument, is it? IMHO you are the only naive one here (apart from the brickhead with the multiple identities) mattstat1964, I completely agree with your analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 It is a conspiricy, 'They' are up to tricks, 'They' are determined to indebt everyone up to their eyeballs in debt and 'They' are determined to reduce working people in the world to the LCD of wages, conditions and living standards, and I fear we have a long way down to go yet. The labour govt has played along with this and I strongly suspect that 'New Labour' is in fact part of a conservative group hell bent on enslaving us, the tories of course will be voted in next time and will just accellerate the process. The only thing that can change the direction is a major shock to the system, like a war with Iran which goes astray for eg, we cant get no oil or maybe something like real bird flu, which will change the priorities of politics and maybe side line some of the crap they have been dealing with over the last 10 years or so. This is not just comon to the UK, the US is leading the world down this track. Fortunatly much of Europe isnt quite yet following this route but given time they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I strongly suspect that 'New Labour' is in fact part of a conservative group hell bent on enslaving us No, they're just socialists, commies and ex-commies with the odd fascist thrown in for good measure. There's little the left love more than enslaving people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 It is a conspiricy, 'They' are up to tricks, 'They' are determined to indebt everyone up to their eyeballs in debt and 'They' are determined to reduce working people in the world to the LCD of wages, conditions and living standards, and I fear we have a long way down to go yet. The labour govt has played along with this and I strongly suspect that 'New Labour' is in fact part of a conservative group hell bent on enslaving us, the tories of course will be voted in next time and will just accellerate the process. The only thing that can change the direction is a major shock to the system, like a war with Iran which goes astray for eg, we cant get no oil or maybe something like real bird flu, which will change the priorities of politics and maybe side line some of the crap they have been dealing with over the last 10 years or so. This is not just comon to the UK, the US is leading the world down this track. Fortunatly much of Europe isnt quite yet following this route but given time they will. There is a slow awakening in America that our freedom and liberty is under threat. People need to wake up and realise what is happening before it's too late. They cannot succeed without the cooperation of the people.....so far. The Jews let the Germans herd them into the gas chambers at gunpoint. We on the other hand have time to redeem ourselves and stop these evil people stealing our future. If we all do just a little bit to obstruct them, it'll make a huge difference. Just the road pricing petition has got them on the hoof. We all need to do these small things to send them a clear message that we will not tolerate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 No, they're just socialists, commies and ex-commies with the odd fascist thrown in for good measure. There's little the left love more than enslaving people. There ain't much difference between a socialist and a fascist. The extremes of political viewpoints diverge and then converge to the same place, and result in totalitarianism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonnaBeMessy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 that's, not much of a counter argument, is it?IMHO you are the only naive one here (apart from the brickhead with the multiple identities) mattstat1964, I completely agree with your analysis. Holy shoot, are you another member of the Dr Bubb sect ? Are you over 21 ? Do you really want a counter argument against mattstat1964 errant nonsense ? Let me just remind you what he said, and I'll paraphrase : In future all people will be slaves, with all your details being stored in a capsule in your body. You will need this " unique implant " to function as a human being. Nurse.....................nurse....................come quick ! PS - Naive I think not, STR club for me and still very happy with life ! PPS - Are you a real Doctor ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 No, they're just socialists, commies and ex-commies with the odd fascist thrown in for good measure. There's little the left love more than enslaving people. If they were socialists, there would be no university fees, there would be masses of new social housing etc etc, they are not by any definition a socialist government, they have far more in common with right wing conservative parties. All governments have an ambition to tell everyone what to do, the longer they are in power the more control they want, left or right, no difference, however now suspect both our main parties are highly influenced by other powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hezzaa Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Have you heard of the Riechstag fire? That will get you thinking some more.Political Consequences of the Fire The day after the fire, Hitler asked and received from President Hindenburg, the Reichstag Fire Decree, signed into law by Hindenburg using Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution. The Reichstag Fire Decree suspended most civil liberties in Germany. As a consequence of the Reichstag Fire Decree, the German Communist Party was banned on March 1, 1933 under the grounds that they were preparing a putsch. In the March 5, 1933 Reichstag elections, the Nazis increased their share of the vote to 44 percent of the vote, which gave the Nazis and their allies, the German National People's Party, who won 8% of the vote a majority of 52% in the Reichstag. The March elections were a major success for the Nazis, but were not the success they were hoping for. The Nazis had aimed to win about 50%–55% of the vote. The Nazis coerced and bribed the remaining parties with the except for the Social Democrats to give them the two-thirds majority for the Enabling Act, which gave them the right to rule by decree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire Lets see how the Reichstag Fire Decree (which is actually called 'For the Protection of People and the State' Law) has in common with modern day Brtiain and anti-terror law: Weimar Germany = Proportional Representation UK= 17TH Century Liberal Demoncracy and 1st Past the Post Weimar Germany = Weak coalition government UK = Strong one party government Weimar Germany = flawed Article 48 law which allowed subversion of the constitution UK = one of the most effective parliamentary democracies in History Weimar Germany = 6 million unemployed UK = 1.1 million unemployed Weimar Germany = Wall St Crash and the Great Depression UK = Strong growth for 10 years Weimar Germany = Reparations payments of £6,600 million led to hatred and the twisting of democracy. Not sure how we are relating the two periods and how this will lead to HPC?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hezzaa Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 There ain't much difference between a socialist and a fascist. The extremes of political viewpoints diverge and then converge to the same place, and result in totalitarianism. Socialsim leads to totalitarianism?! Have you got the slightest clue what you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hezzaa Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 If they were socialists, there would be no university fees, there would be masses of new social housing etc etc, they are not by any definition a socialist government, they have far more in common with right wing conservative parties. All governments have an ambition to tell everyone what to do, the longer they are in power the more control they want, left or right, no difference, however now suspect both our main parties are highly influenced by other powers. And I presume you think anarchism would be the way forward do you?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objective Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Why don't we all just organise a run on the banks? Withdraw all our cash. This will bring down the house of cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 And I presume you think anarchism would be the way forward do you?! Where did that come from??? I just said the current party arnt socialists in response to someone else saying they were socialists and communists. what has your reply got to do with that? Did I metion anarchy ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Holy shoot, are you another member of the Dr Bubb sect ? Are you over 21 ? Do you really want a counter argument against mattstat1964 errant nonsense ? Let me just remind you what he said, and I'll paraphrase : In future all people will be slaves, with all your details being stored in a capsule in your body. You will need this " unique implant " to function as a human being.Nurse.....................nurse....................come quick ! PS - Naive I think not, STR club for me and still very happy with life ! PPS - Are you a real Doctor ? Go ahead and laugh. But in 20 years time you might wish you'd taken the threat more seriously If you're in doubt about the possibilty, and I stress 'possibility' because I hope this doesn't happen, check out the movie Freedom to Fascism. You can watch the whole movie on YouTube. Some of it is a bit cheesy and I'm not sure that we could ever have a zero income tax economy like the USA, but there's some good stuff on the Federal Reserve and these implants that I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hezzaa Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Where did that come from??? I just said the current party arnt socialists in response to someone else saying they were socialists and communists. what has your reply got to do with that? Did I metion anarchy ?? Your tone suggests it is negative for governments to control society to some extent- isnt that their job. The reason the French envy our society, and many of them do, is because we have a liberal free market democracy. I think we have more here than we think and the grass isnt greener on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonnaBeMessy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Go ahead and laugh. But in 20 years time you might wish you'd taken the threat more seriouslyIf you're in doubt about the possibilty, and I stress 'possibility' because I hope this doesn't happen, check out the movie Freedom to Fascism. You can watch the whole movie on YouTube. Some of it is a bit cheesy and I'm not sure that we could ever have a zero income tax economy like the USA, but there's some good stuff on the Federal Reserve and these implants that I mentioned. Well, I am in doubt about the possibility. Let me make that seriously in doubt about that possibility. But heh - ho , they say you learn something everyday. So Freedom to Fascism I will indeed check out, altho' I can't help but think - it is a movie. PS - Am I understanding you correctly, are you saying the USA has or has had a zero income tax economy ? Genuine question BTW ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Pirata Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 It's not just happening here: Cooking the books WHEN a dash for economic growth produces double-digit inflation, most governments change their policies. But not that of Argentina: it has opted to keep the policies and change the inflation numbers. Last month, it sacked the head of the consumer-prices section of the National Statistics and Census Institute (INDEC), replacing her with Beatriz Paglieri, a trade specialist at the economy ministry. Five days later the institute announced that January's inflation was 1.1%. Private economists estimate that the real figure was between 1.5% and 2%. This crude statistical jiggery-pokery suggests that officials reckon that inflation might be the only obstacle preventing Néstor Kirchner from winning a second term in a presidential election in October (though his wife may stand in his stead). After collapsing in 2001-02, the economy has notched up four years of growth of 9%. It has shown clear signs of overheating (see chart). The government's response was price-freezing “agreements” with many businesses. But prices are still rising. Ms Paglieri has the confidence of Guillermo Moreno, the secretary of internal trade and the government's chief price enforcer. To arrive at the 1.1% figure for January, she apparently changed the institute's methodology. It dropped from the index prepaid annual health-insurance policies, which come up for renewal in January and whose average cost rose by 22% over the past year. It also changed its sample of tourism companies, reporting that holiday costs had risen by only 3.7% in January, compared with 16.7% in the same month last year. According to an economist who formerly worked at the institute, between them these two changes reduced the inflation rate by 0.8 of a percentage point. Officials may have had an eye on annual salary negotiations between unions and employers, which start this month. But “unions read the newspapers too, and the perception that people have of inflation is very different from the index,” says Javier González Fraga, a former central-bank president. Argentina is still a long way from a return of the hyperinflation of the 1970s and 1980s. But many economists believe that prices of goods and services not covered by price controls will rise by 13-15% this year. Nipping inflation in the bud would require a rise in interest rates and curbs on public spending, as well as letting the peso appreciate. But first there is an election to be fought. It is shaping up to be a war of numbers. http://www.economist.com/world/la/displays...tory_id=8670499 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaranna Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The Queen, George Bush and Jacques Chirac are actually a bunch of giant alien shapeshifting lizards. No, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Pirata Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The Queen, George Bush and Jacques Chirac are actually a bunch of giant alien shapeshifting lizards. No, really. I don't think you really need to believe in any sort of conspiracy theory to believe that figures are being fiddled or presented dishonestly (maybe not as blatantly as in Argentina). It's just political expediency. The measures needed to combat inflation will always be - in the short term - highly unpopular and won't win you many votes. So why not just pretend that inflation is not happening? Not too hard, he who pays the piper etc... In the long term, of course, the effects of an inflationary spiral are guaranteed to kick you out of office. But most of our populist Nu-Lab politicians don't see that far, they would much rather boot a problem a few years or months over the horizon than have the balls to tackle it (see also PFI-PPP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaranna Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I don't think you really need to believe in any sort of conspiracy theory to believe that figures are being fiddled or presented dishonestly (maybe not as blatantly as in Argentina). It's just political expediency. The measures needed to combat inflation will always be - in the short term - highly unpopular and won't win you many votes. So why not just pretend that inflation is not happening? Not too hard, he who pays the piper etc...In the long term, of course, the effects of an inflationary spiral are guaranteed to kick you out of office. But most of our populist Nu-Lab politicians don't see that far, they would much rather boot a problem a few years or months over the horizon than have the balls to tackle it (see also PFI-PPP). Oh no, I have no illusions about the inflation figures it's the WTC tinfoilhattery on this thread I'm making fun of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El_Pirata Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Oh no, I have no illusions about the inflation figures it's the WTC tinfoilhattery on this thread I'm making fun of here. Fair play then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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