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Morocco Property- Tanjah Gold And Beach


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Yes I agree with your take on both risk & timeline.

Re the political situation....I have lived in other Islamic countries with different political systems but other than that I am no analyst so this is just a personal view...in a country as poor as this there is always going to be socio-economic changes as investment moves in (& there are some big players in the area) & it takes time for economic benefits to trickle down.

In addition there have been reports of thwarted terrorist attacks on tourist locations in Morocco very recently. Given the situation I expect these to continue.....just as I expect the threat of this type of attack in ANY OTHER COUNTRY. However what makes the Moroccan threat more immediate is:

a) the amount of investment being seen to come into the country & subsequent challenges to culture & custom

B) changes that the king has made impacting on the power elite/political structure causing dissatisfaction

c) upsurge in Islamic fundamentalist activity - potentially explosive when linked with poor living conditions.

d) There is a general election this year & there is a concern that a more islamic focussed party will gain power however it should be noted that these are NOT considered fundamentalist, just more traditional.

I am optimistic in that:

a) the king appears to have a vision for his country & has moved slowly & cautiously trying to take his people with him. he also enjoys popularity with his people (from what i can tell). & this relationship will be crucial in keeping the lid on things

B) The country has a long standing, but discreet relationship with the US (no, I wasn't aware of that either until recently)

c)Moroccan police don't mess about (yes this IS a double edged sword)

d) To quote an old lebanese saying "not all fingers are the same"...the Islam practised in morocco is not of the fundamental kind although there are reports of radical imams in Fes.

e) A lot of the investment in the country appears to be generated from other Arab countries, notably the emirates

I do not want to play down the threat in any way, but I do get fed up with the kneejerk reaction to any mention of investment in an Islamic country, so I would love to know in why your gym owner thinks as he does...is he Moroccan? Also I am sure there will some of you with different views & I'd be most interested to hear them.(reasoned debate only please ..no slagging!)

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but I do get fed up with the kneejerk reaction to any mention of investment in an Islamic country, so I would love to know in why your gym owner thinks as he does...is he Moroccan?

I appreciate your considered balanced response.

The 'critical' guy I know is forever in bad debt and has never made a decent fist of anything, so I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

People forget that the worlds 16th biggest economy is Muslim - Malaysia. As you say not all fingers are the same.

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Sounds like you should ignore the owner of the gym DogBox! Don't know situation in Asilah for new development of social housing but 100k units does sound steep. If you are taking A road a few hundred yards back from the ocean you will pass through Asilah in little more than a minute. Can't imagine development being of this scale and what esmeralda has seen (more recent than I have seen it) suggests it won't be. Asilah medina/harbour and street behind it with restraunts aren't my cup of tea, but are and will be popular day trip for those holidaying on North Atlantic coast. (I much prefer he buzz in Larache, though not sure it will have quite the same atmosphere once its been cleaned up for day trippers from Port Lixus etc.)

Esmerelda: Share many of your views and in particular with regards giving something back to the Moroccans. It isn't simply that these tourist developments will bring jobs to locals. As you have said, part of the proceeds are going towards social housing, improving infra-structure etc. I see this as a positive thing for Morocco / Moroccans and and it should also help our acqusitions appreciate in value. Its hard to think of an investment that does more for the place you are investing. If you are still visiting HPCF 6, 12, 18 months from now it would be interesting to see the progress of your renovation project.

Edited by The Soup Dragon
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Sounds like you should ignore the owner of the gym DogBox! Don't know situation in Asilah for new development of social housing but 100k units does sound steep. If you are taking A road a few hundred yards back from the ocean you will pass through Asilah in little more than a minute. Can't imagine development being of this scale and what esmeralda has seen (more recent than I have seen it) suggests it won't be. Asilah medina/harbour and street behind it with restraunts aren't my cup of tea, but are and will be popular day trip for those holidaying on North Atlantic coast. (I much prefer he buzz in Larache, though not sure it will have quite the same atmosphere once its been cleaned up for day trippers from Port Lixus etc.)

Esmerelda: Share many of your views and in particular with regards giving something back to the Moroccans. It isn't simply that these tourist developments will bring jobs to locals. As you have said, part of the proceeds are going towards social housing, improving infra-structure etc. I see this as a positive thing for Morocco / Moroccans and and it should also help our acqusitions appreciate in value. Its hard to think of an investment that does more for the place you are investing. If you are still visiting HPCF 6, 12, 18 months from now it would be interesting to see the progress of your renovation project.

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Sounds like you should ignore the owner of the gym DogBox! Don't know situation in Asilah for new development of social housing but 100k units does sound steep. If you are taking A road a few hundred yards back from the ocean you will pass through Asilah in little more than a minute. Can't imagine development being of this scale and what esmeralda has seen (more recent than I have seen it) suggests it won't be. Asilah medina/harbour and street behind it with restraunts aren't my cup of tea, but are and will be popular day trip for those holidaying on North Atlantic coast. (I much prefer he buzz in Larache, though not sure it will have quite the same atmosphere once its been cleaned up for day trippers from Port Lixus etc.)

Esmerelda: Share many of your views and in particular with regards giving something back to the Moroccans. It isn't simply that these tourist developments will bring jobs to locals. As you have said, part of the proceeds are going towards social housing, improving infra-structure etc. I see this as a positive thing for Morocco / Moroccans and and it should also help our acqusitions appreciate in value. Its hard to think of an investment that does more for the place you are investing. If you are still visiting HPCF 6, 12, 18 months from now it would be interesting to see the progress of your renovation project.

Re the housing units - I wonder if there's a couple of extra zeros in there by accident? The development is to the south, from what I could see from the main road was terraced housing and actually on the coastline - which I cheer on ...that not all coastal developments will be for tourists with the locals shoved to the "back of the bus" so to speak!!

Yes Asilah is a small town not as buzzy as Larache but then I hear Larache is currently a bit rough?? Authentic maybe but maybe a bit too much for us as first timers in morocco.

Re the renovation story, I am happy to share our experiences warts and all & if anyone is interested please let me know & I will start a separate thread maybe?

To date we have gone through the buying process under Islamic law & will apply for the title shortly. We are using local people to do most of the work as they understand how to work with the local materials far better than we ever could an labour is very cheap.

We are looking at a renovation rather than a complete rebuild & trying to maintain the format of the traditional house just using the space in a different way therefore we are advised a a programme of 3 months will do the job...personally I am doubling that & then adding another month on "for the pot".

We have appointed a project manager, sourced an electrician, plumber & builder (still waiting on a carpenter) & will agree a schedule of works & costs shortly.

We are trying to get them to work to specific tranches of work to allow us to check at regular points that all is as it should be and noone's pulled a wall down that they shouldn'T (!).

In case anyone thinks this is all terribly organised... I do not expect the fun to start until the workers are on site & we are in the UK...that will be the challenge! Anyone want to bet on how many things go wrong???

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The price of apartment in morocco is sold by square meter with full price for flat and half price for the terrace.

Square meter is about 5000 DH to 10000DH ( £330-£660) or Max to 12000DH (£800 )..

The apartmet in Morocco never never go up in price expect in Marrakech because they were very sheap

in the past .

For example,

the most expensise apartments are located in casablanca with the price of 1000DH per square meter in Al Marrif or Anfa, 7000DH in 2 Mars,

and 45000 Dh so called near to PUBLIC AREA ( SHAABI) .

When you are ready to buy, you may have to pay 20% under table ( The owner is trying to avoid paying tax , it is commun in morocco).

It is illegal to take the money of the country.

Check the local newspaper for price of the appartement and remember that used flats should be sheaper than the new ones.

http://www.menara.ma/annonces/Immobilier/index.asp

kal..

Edited by Kal
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The price of apartment in morocco is sold by square meter with full price for flat and half price for the terrace.

Square meter is about 5000 DH to 10000DH ( £330-£660) or Max to 12000DH (£800 )..

The apartmet in Morocco never never go up in price expect in Marrakech because they were very sheap

in the past .

For example,

the most expensise apartments are located in casablanca with the price of 1000DH per square meter in Al Marrif or Anfa, 7000DH in 2 Mars,

and 45000 Dh so called near to PUBLIC AREA ( SHAABI) .

When you are ready to buy, you may have to pay 20% under table ( The owner is trying to avoid paying tax , it is commun in morocco).

It is illegal to take the money of the country.

Check the local newspaper for price of the appartement and remember that used flats should be sheaper than the new ones.

Your comments are interesting Kal although I would say that price rises ARE already there around Asilah where increases on land, houses and apartments have been steady for the last 2 years. The reason they have only ever appreciated in maraakech is because the other areas were never sold as a resort - this is set to change. For me Marrakesh is overpriced and the planned development runs the risk of not being in sympathy with the city & the risk of chav invasion with the cheap flights. (yes I am snobby enough to really NOT want to see pubs serving chips with everything where I holiday)

You are quite correct re the declaration of the sales price - but only if you are buying direct from a moroccan - they get hammered on capital gains on their own home ...I do not think expat owners selling on are subject to this rate of tax so this issue does not apply.

http://www.menara.ma/annonces/Immobilier/index.asp

kal..

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I really don’t know too much about the north of Morocco, we just there the summer like every Moroccan.

Four years, I bought a flat in city of Casablanca; the price went down as usual like every used apartment.

It seems to me that beach place is made for tourists or money laundry from the drugs, and Moroccans can

afford a vacation for even £1,000 per month in summer season.

Most of the French are buying Riads to be used for B&B like http://www.riadmimouna.com/En/index2.htm

it is an excellent Investment but you have to work hard.

>>I do not think expat owners selling on are subject to this rate of tax so this issue >>does not apply.

I never heard about special deal for expat or Moroccans holding European citizenship.

you have to do a special procedure to get your money out the country.

see this link for a good deal tfrom London Gatwick to Marrakech starting

at £125.96 R/T .. http://www.atlas-blue.com/

The market of Marrakech is overpricing because of the corruption of ERAC. You cannot even buy new 2010 building or villa.

They are all reserve for the big managers and middleman, and you have to pay them £20K-£30 to switch your name on the list.

Big Market of corruption..

Good Luck..

Edited by Kal
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I am convinced that when the low cost flights from all over europe start to arrive, the newly built 5 star hotel's marketing machines kick in and people start to visit Northern Morocco and see it as a beach holiday destination, then property prices will go through the roof.

I think the market for rentals will be europeans. I think as the Moroccan economy strengthens, then you may start to get Moroccans renting beach front property for a weekend escape from the city etc, but this is some years off yet.

Putting my head on the block, I expect prices of Tanjah to double in 3-5 years and triple in 5 to 7 years. I expect rental to be low for the first year or so and then as the low cost flights arrive and people see N Morocco as a beach holiday detination, I expect the rentals to slowly rise up to the same levels as the rest of the meditaranean.

I think in 5-7 years, you will be able to rent out a 2 bed apartment in Tanjah for £500 / week. With the golf and other facilities, i think you will have a long season and i think if the unit is marketed properly, it will attract very high yields.

This is not going to happen over night, but will start once the flights arrive and people see the final product. As word of mouth spreads, the demand for the resort will improve and prices will rise.

The reason why demand for morocco beach front is not high at the moment is because Morocco is very difficult / expensive to get to. Change that and prices will start to rise. If the low costs flights don't materialise then our investment will look very shaky, so that is the punt.

On a separate note, I spoke to Tony Nunn, a director of Dreamworld, the developers of Tanjah to ask about the road. He said that there will be 4 roundabouts with raised curbs which will mean the traffic will have to slow down as the cars lorries won't be able to drive throuh or over the roundabouts. I think this will do thr trick to get the bulk of the heavy traffic off the road and onto the motorway.

I also spoke to Phil Morris the solicitor at Tanjah Beach to discuss my concerns about not having the option of appointing an independent solicitor (see separate thread - http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=45492 )

He told me that the developers have decided to put a lift and underground parking for 22 cars into each of the blocks, which is a massive plus and will keep the apartments in keeping with the european standard 5 star resort it is meant to be.

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I am convinced that when the low cost flights from all over europe start to arrive, the newly built 5 star hotel's marketing machines kick in and people start to visit Northern Morocco and see it as a beach holiday destination, then property prices will go through the roof.

Exactly. People make the mistake of saying 'Morocco will never reach Spannish property prices'. In the end the large gated resorts will offer a fantastic beach and golf combination as close as Spain is and that is actually the top and bottom of it. Add in the vastly superior scale of leisure facilities in the Plan Azure resorts and you what I think is a unique opportunity.

I've seen figures that show beds lag the increase in tourist numbers by a long way. This is only going to get worse as tourism numbers are rising rapidly and the beds not keeping pace.

Someone I know bought a villa in Turkey last Spring. He said the place became a ghost town by late Autumn and the winter was far too chilly for comfort.

This highlights the fundamental difference between Morocco and say Turkey. Northern Morocco is a lot closer (convienience is such a vital factor), has better more stable year round weather and the giant Government resorts will pull people year round thanks to the facilities on offer.

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I also spoke to Phil Morris the solicitor at Tanjah Beach to discuss my concerns about not having the option of appointing an independent solicitor (see separate thread - http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=45492 )

You will be really crazy if you use lawyer to buy a Moroccan property. Find well know notaire for only £200-£400.

Although you do not legally require a solicitor in order to buy a Moroccan property,

it is highly reccommended, as the notaire will not provide you with independent legal advice.

You should also have all three contracts translated into English by a proFezsional firm, therefore ensuring that both you and

your lawyer are fully aware of what you are signing. It is also advisable to inspect your new home before you sign

the final contract, just to double check that it is still in the same state as when you agreed to the sale.

Properties without the correct title deeds are commonplace in Morocco but, despite

what you might hear, it is imperative that you do not purchase a property without the

correct documentation. If you are not in possession of the title deeds,

you do not officially own the property – regardless of how much you paid.

See this when Buying a Home in Morocco ..

http://www.buyassociation.co.uk/property/t...in-morocco.html

We did see a big problems in Marrarech after 9/11. Poeple lost thier home and jobs.

Today news is Two bombers attack U.S. targets in Morocco,

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14524951.htm

or

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6555177.stm

Edited by Kal
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  • 4 months later...

Well, hate to be a bragging know it all, bit i think i predicted that Tanjah would double in 3-5 years. They have just increased the prices of a 3 bed penthouse by 75,000 euros, almost 50% increase on my 157,000 euro purchase price and with 12% down and further 13% over 3 years, i think this investment is streets ahead of any other investment i have seen in Morocco to date, especially as I am still to hand over my initial 12% investment!

My initial forecast of doubling in 3-5 years and trebling in 5-7 years could look a little on the conservative side!

:lol:

Can anyone top this?

Yours,

smug g*t.

:P

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Well, hate to be a bragging know it all, bit i think i predicted that Tanjah would double in 3-5 years. They have just increased the prices of a 3 bed penthouse by 75,000 euros, almost 50% increase on my 157,000 euro purchase price and with 12% down and further 13% over 3 years, i think this investment is streets ahead of any other investment i have seen in Morocco to date, especially as I am still to hand over my initial 12% investment!

My initial forecast of doubling in 3-5 years and trebling in 5-7 years could look a little on the conservative side!

:lol:

Can anyone top this?

Yours,

smug g*t.

:P

Just wait until you try to sell it. You won't look so smug then! LOL.

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Tom.

An increase in the developer's asking price should not be taken as an increase in the real value of your investment. A profit is only achieved when the cash is in the bank; as yet there does not seem to be much of a resale market in any of the new Moroccan developments, so don't get too smug.

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It might be a good investment if things continue the way they are. What will the properties be worth if there are no more British buyers? These overseas developments funded by rich Europeans are mostly bubbles in themselves. If things go t%ts up and the European money dries up, will the properties be worth nearly as much to the locals? Ofcourse there's a place for risky investments in most investment portfolios - but rolling high with all the chips down is dumb whether you win or lose.

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Mmm I'm afraid I tend to the slightly cyncial with this development. I passed the Tanjah site 3 weeks ago & I saw no sign of ANY progress at all. Now originally when we looked at this, we were told that building would begin last Nov. Just what is to stop the developer hoiking the price up again later in the year, pulling more investors in etc etc and then all of a sudden you have a development that is not going anywhere & in the meantime the agent has had all your deposit monies turning over a nice bit of interest. I don't say this will happen in your case, just that if I had continued with this investment, I would have had 3k sitting doing nothing for over a year now. There have been too many developments that have had too long a gestation period in morocco for my liking so i prefer something tangible to tanjah (ha!)

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It might be a good investment if things continue the way they are. What will the properties be worth if there are no more British buyers? These overseas developments funded by rich Europeans are mostly bubbles in themselves. If things go t%ts up and the European money dries up, will the properties be worth nearly as much to the locals? Ofcourse there's a place for risky investments in most investment portfolios - but rolling high with all the chips down is dumb whether you win or lose.

This example of pure pessimism comes up all the time. It really is a prime example of red - necked ignorance :o .

All this bubble twatting on is school boy stuff, just biggotted small mindedness.

As if all the money will dry up - 'run far the hills boise and git yer gun, it's gonna git bad I tell yer'. For a start European economies are not all in sychrony, the Germans for example are emmerging from recessionary times..... and what was the effect on Spannish property - zilch.

Many of us don't need credit, secondly the number of Europeans becomming wealthy / well off is rising rapidly not least due to the hoardes of former communist states getting comfortable with capitalism, plus net immigration from the rest of the world plus prime beach realestate is very much a prized commoditiy.

Sure there will always be suckers over paying for second rate real estate but dont let those incidents rule your investment compass.

Honestly this type of pessimism has always existed, so please please reocognise you are exactly the same as those that said Steam engines would ruin us, or that TV was just a passing fad, that supermarkets were doomed to fail, that the minimum wage would lay waste to the economy, that Japan in the 1970s would steal all our jobs from which we would never recover (mmmm, yet we are richer now that ever) OR THAT ROCK N ROLL USHERED IN THE APOCOLYP'S.

Anyone feeling pessimistic now in these times of plenty is truly spoiled and self obsessed, not to mention being completely irrational.

Edited by dogbox
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  • 7 months later...

Has anyone pulled out or are considering pulling out of this investment? I am close. Some people have reserved for almost 2 years on this site and we are still waiting for contracts from the developers. They churn out a list of excuses, the current one is that the solicitor won't issue the due diligence report needed for the contracts until they have seen the land registry report.

I don't buy it. Firstly, the solicitors were appointed by the developers and are not independnet so i don't trust what they say. I think the developers are waiting for enough units to be sold to ensure the commercial viability of the project rather than start and then run out of money half way through from not having sold enough units.

Luckily, the 3000 euro holding deposit is fully refundable, and i am now thinking i should bail to make sure i am at the front of the refund queue before the trickle of investors who are currently pulling out turns into a stream and then a mass exodus in the summer.

would appreciate peoples thinking if they are involved with this site.

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Has anyone pulled out or are considering pulling out of this investment? I am close. Some people have reserved for almost 2 years on this site and we are still waiting for contracts from the developers. They churn out a list of excuses, the current one is that the solicitor won't issue the due diligence report needed for the contracts until they have seen the land registry report.

I don't buy it. Firstly, the solicitors were appointed by the developers and are not independnet so i don't trust what they say. I think the developers are waiting for enough units to be sold to ensure the commercial viability of the project rather than start and then run out of money half way through from not having sold enough units.

Luckily, the 3000 euro holding deposit is fully refundable, and i am now thinking i should bail to make sure i am at the front of the refund queue before the trickle of investors who are currently pulling out turns into a stream and then a mass exodus in the summer.

would appreciate peoples thinking if they are involved with this site.

mmmm....see my previous post on this thread on this development. we put a deposit down in july 2006 then withdrew in DEc 2006 after we had been given the run around trying to see the site & feedback from the initial tranche of investors on the first inspection visit. I know several of the early investors did the same.

We liked the area though & did a renovation project in asilah which is now renting out for us nicely this year. I have followed tanjah "developments" with interest however - particularlyclaims that they have done things on site...security, broken ground etc. I also see that there is a 2nd phase of the units now planned & that was never stipulated in the first offer.

All I can tell you is that when I passed the site a month ago, there was no change at all to the site - no work had started & there was no evidence of any "security" on site - after all, for what - there is nothing to secure!

I do know that regulatory processes can be tortuous in Morocco but I would have thought that they would havebeen in a position to move by now. Have they given you a date at ALL? The other thing I would question is with the delayed start date and the 2nd phase - what actually would be the completion date? There are other developments, (on offer at the same time as Tanjah launched y the way), that are closer to Asilah, and that are in construction - why don;t you take a look at those? They don;t offer the same low cost entry as Tanjah but they are at least off the paper stage now.

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I think its clear that the '2010 plan azur' is now pretty much dead in the water - the 5 new resorts spread around the coast of morocco will not see the light of day after the farce that saidia is turning in to and the now obvious non-show in tanjah. The credit crunch has hit and quite simply the demand has dried up thus the supply will not be arriving....

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I think its clear that the '2010 plan azur' is now pretty much dead in the water - the 5 new resorts spread around the coast of morocco will not see the light of day after the farce that saidia is turning in to and the now obvious non-show in tanjah. The credit crunch has hit and quite simply the demand has dried up thus the supply will not be arriving....

1 wouldn't write it off just yet. Tanjah was never part of the plan azur development. There is a tremendous amount of development going on in Morocco. ... I have seen that for myself in Marrakesh, Tanger, Asilah & Larache ... also Mazagan , which I think is plan azur, has started further south near El Jadida. I believe Tinja development is still going ahead in the same area as Tanjah.

Also Brits don't make up the bulk of visitors to Morocco...those developments targetted at those with a relatively high discretionary spend (eg Tinja as I understand the concept) will I believe continue...does anyone know different?

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Esmerelda. Continue to follow your posts with interest and smiling looking over posts on this thread. A year ago you were contemplating a renovation project and a year later you are promoting the finished project for rentals. My job may take me to Northampton (near Stansted.) If it does I may follow in your footsteps, taking up the challenge of a foreign renovation project.

How’s the social housing South of Asilah looking now? When I passed by in summer of 2006 it was early days and the area from the main road (slightly south of Asilah) and the coast was to be developed / under construction. Is it complete / taking shape well?

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Esmerelda. Continue to follow your posts with interest and smiling looking over posts on this thread. A year ago you were contemplating a renovation project and a year later you are promoting the finished project for rentals. My job may take me to Northampton (near Stansted.) If it does I may follow in your footsteps, taking up the challenge of a foreign renovation project.

How’s the social housing South of Asilah looking now? When I passed by in summer of 2006 it was early days and the area from the main road (slightly south of Asilah) and the coast was to be developed / under construction. Is it complete / taking shape well?

Hiyah Soup-dy-doo!

Yeh- we had our first guests for Easter & they loved it & we are booked through June to end of August so fingers crossed!! I was in Asilah a month ago - but I had my eyes on the road as I was driving!! so I didn;t take much notice of what was happening south of the town. From memory on a visit just before christmas, the social unit shells looked as though they were up. The bulldozers were in creating the infrastructure for the roads for the tourist development there (is that asilah beach or asilah golf ?- am never sure!. Just to the north of asilah was going great guns also. Then in the centre of asilah there is a large apartment complex being built right on the corniche. ..these consist of large 3 bed apartments & I think were all sold out before the developers even broke ground.

Someone has also started breaking ground opposite the northern part of Tanjah on the side nearest the sea but I think this is individual villas as it looks pretty small - still you never know!

There is starting to be a buzz about Larache so i went & took a look. The town is nowhere near as grotty as my moroccan friends had made me think but the medina is pretty eugh BUT individual developers are moving in so I expect to see prices there increase steadily next year - but they had already moved beyond our reach. We will stick with Azemmour & start saving for a soopah doopah project in a couple of years time I think!

let me know if you get on the renovation kick!

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