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"good Time To Be A Graduate"


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Guest pioneer31

I don't know whether americans are clever than us or not

but what I have heard from people in the know is that US Uni's are preferred over UK one's. PhD's from a decent US Uni are proper PhD's.

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The US has it's good points. I too admire the go-for-it attitude, although ultimately this comes from years of frontier spirit, rather than any policy-making. Like here, modern advanced capitalism does not really want lots of people trying to start their own enterprises or do their own thing - it wants a ready workforce for obscenely oversized globalised corporations.

The US model is the last one you'd want to import - crime, murder, poverty, three-job working poor, trailer parks, etc.

People who say how great the US is, tend to be focussed and having lots of stuff easily - huge SUV, huge badly-built house, huge telly, huge back yard. What I can't stand about the USA is that outside the famous cities, it's about as interesting a place as nothumberland. Horribly bland.

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In all this America-is-the-most-wonderful-place-on-the-planet-ism, let us not forget that this is the country that invented trailer trash.

SURA, the Americans you met were almost certainly not representative, considering that 70%+ of the US population does not even have a passport.

America is basically split in two - those (few) that can afford a good education usually have a great life, and those (many) that can't struggle and sometimes make it big - the rest live a pretty good life, but some don't make it at all. (Parents start saving for their child's education before they are born!).

America certainly isn't the most wonderful place, but the people that I was fortunate enough to work with (around my age) were very focused, hard working. they didn't expect anything to come easy to them, and were prepared to work very hard for their riches. It sums up this government's attitude that there is no tax on gambling, but there is on everything else - it sends a signal to society IMHO - 'expect something for nothing'. I'm not sure which I dislike more, the America that you briefly described, or the UK that exists now.

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Hi Pioneer,

I'm not suggesting that from that one experience, it's conclusive that all americans are brighter than us brits.

What I am saying or trying to get across is how positive, sure of themselves, focussed and knew what they were aiming for and why they choose their course. They also were VERY bright and their education was obviously VERY well rounded.

I KNOW that we in the UK do a poor job with addressing these points with our own youth.

BUT - I have / had always been of the opinion that a UK education was better than a US one. Now I'm not so sure (having seen what I have, witnessed my own family's experiences in the US compared to over in the UK and from the recent survey's on the world's best Universities).

BTW, I totally agree that coursework IS the cheats favourite - back in my day 3 A Levels Grade A meant something - today people are getting 9 A Levels Grade A :blink:

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Guest pioneer31
Hi Pioneer,

I'm not suggesting that from that one experience, it's conclusive that all americans are brighter than us brits.

What I am saying or trying to get across is how positive, sure of themselves, focussed and knew what they were aiming for and why they choose their course.  They also were VERY bright and their education was obviously VERY well rounded.

I KNOW that we in the UK do a poor job with addressing these points with our own youth.

BUT - I have / had always been of the opinion that a UK education was better than a US one.  Now I'm not so sure (having seen what I have, witnessed my own family's experiences in the US compared to over in the UK and from the recent survey's on the world's best Universities).

BTW, I totally agree that coursework IS the cheats favourite - back in my day 3 A Levels Grade A meant something - today people are getting 9 A Levels Grade A  :blink:

Yes I think you're right

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BUT - I have / had always been of the opinion that a UK education was better than a US one.  Now I'm not so sure (having seen what I have, witnessed my own family's experiences in the US compared to over in the UK and from the recent survey's on the world's best Universities).

I remember visiting my girlfriend at the UC Berkeley campus on Friday and Saturday nights. Amazingly for a campus of over 30,000 students there are only 3 or 4 pubs/bars (you do need to show ID that you're over 21 to get in too). Also, hardly any of the 'frat parties' that I'd seen in numerous films! What I did see, however, were lots of students in coffee shops studying at about midnight on both Friday nights and Saturday nights - this might have had something to do with the fact that their parents had on average paid over $80k for their 4 years at Berkeley... Interestingly on my current MBA we have the same 'heads down' attitude, but then WE are paying quite a lot of money to go there (some are getting sponsored, but I didn't even bother asking my Local Authority for even a portion of the £24k! Not fair on taxpayers of course, but I also didn't want to be tied down. Anyway, what else could I have spent the £24k on? A deposit for a tiny shoebox in London that immediately depreciates, or a car that immediately depreciates?)

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Chandellina, you show how out-of-touch you are with this comment. Student loans currently charge around 3% interest. This is by no means a market rate, but is not "zero" either.

So because the situation is even worse in the US, that makes it OK here?

you are quite nasty on small points - i don't know why. you seem to really hate americans too, with your ridiculous generalisations. anyway, i didn't make a judgement on the us situation. my point is people manage (and pay for four years, not three). higher education is a bit of privilege, not so much a right, so it makes sense to me that students should help to fund its costs.

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I am working over in the US at the moment (as an engineer), and can say from my experience that the UK/Europeans are better overall.

Is this because most of the 'Bright' americans go to law/medical school to earn millions, leaving the other areas lean?

I also think that the UK/Europeans have had to be adaptive, and change working practices to become more competitive. They are now ahead of the Americans, who generally get by, by throwing bodies at problems. Americans are very resistant to change (which surprised me greatly), much as the UK was in the bad old days.

This is just my experiences.

CF

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you are quite nasty on small points - i don't know why. you seem to really hate americans too, with your ridiculous generalisations. anyway, i didn't make a judgement on the us situation. my point is people manage (and pay for four years, not three). higher education is a bit of privilege, not so much a right, so it makes sense to me that students should help to fund its costs.

US students do pay a large amount for their education, but then they will enjoy a lower tax environment when they graduate.

The average UK graduate can look forward to a basic tax rate of 45% including employee and employer NI contributions. Not to mention council tax.

As a country with a farily high tax rate we should expect something for our money.

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US students do pay a large amount for their education, but then they will enjoy a lower tax environment when they graduate.

The average UK graduate can look forward to a basic tax rate of 45% including employee and employer NI contributions.  Not to mention council tax.

As a country with a farily high tax rate we should expect something for our money.

i don't reckon. isn't the income tax rate 22% up to £31,400?

in the u.s., comparable rate for that salary at current exchange rate is 27%.

factor in state - and city - taxes somewhere like NYC or in California and national insurance and council tax look piddling.

plus, we do get something for our money in Britain - free healthcare.

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i don't reckon. isn't the income tax rate 22% up to £31,400?

in the u.s., comparable rate for that salary at current exchange rate is 27%.

factor in state - and city - taxes somewhere like NYC or in California and national insurance and council tax look piddling.

plus, we do get something for our money in Britain - free healthcare.

Income tax is only 22%.

However, national insurance contributions are 23.8% (11% employee, 12.8% employer)

Indeed we do get free healthcare, but I'd rather see money spent on education than the ODPM*.

*Office of the Deputy Prime Minister

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Does this Ivy League correspond or cross over with the Russell Group?

Yes, I think you've got them all. This is a list that most Human Resources departments have pinned to their office noticeboards. If your degree is not from one of them your application goes to the bottom of the pile. This is the result of ever more sub standard graduates emerging from former polytechnics. Most of them would be much better off learning a trade and earning £50 000+ as many plumber do in London.

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factor in state - and city - taxes somewhere like NYC or in California and national insurance and council tax look piddling.

Erm theres a little known tax in the UK called VAT. It's added to just about everything. At 17.5% I would take state taxes over VAT any day.

Whats the highest state tax 8% maybe 9%.

A new Poem, I dedicate to Gordon.

Taxed when you work

Taxed when you buy

Taxed where you live

Taxed when you die

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  • 2 weeks later...

My brother grew up in the UK, moved to the USA 20 years ago to study at graduate level and has lived there ever since. He commented recently on returning to the UK that England has imported the bad aspects of America (i.e. low security, high-crime [guns!], social divide, etc etc) but none of the good.. (No equal ops, cheap prices, choice, career potential for hard workers etc etc)..

As for comparisons between UK and US Universities. There is no comparison. The US wins hands down (IMHO).. The serf class in the UK does not have the means or wherewithal to change things*. Hence the blank looks at the banks. Hence the bad educational advice. Hence the difficultly in advancing in life.

Plus accroding to O'Mahony and de Boer 2000 the levels of educational attainment between the US, Germany, UK and France are

Germany UK France US

High 15.0 15.4 16.4 27.7

Middle 65.0 27.7 51.2 18.6

Lower 20.0 56.9 32.4 53.7

Where

high is Degree or above

middle is vocational

low is school only

i.e. for the UK at leasz 56.9% serfs (built into the system)..

The US despite the same problem (high low education %) is more productive because of better management. (which the Germans and French have anyway)..

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  • 439 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


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