Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Recommended Posts

No, I'm proposing 2 arguments regarding the use of the word "good"

1, £30K used to a good wage, still sounds like a good wage but the cost of living has risen to a level where it does not provide a good life and good housing therefore it is not a good wage

2, A good wage would allow you to buy that good house the OP mentions with a reasonable but not easy debt burden say 4x income. So if that house is priced at £200K my idea of a good wage would be £50K

HPCeople go on about this disconnection between wages and house prcies and wages must rise or prices must fall to return to mean. If this happens and homes lose 50% of their value, £30K may well be a good wage but today, to me, it isn't.

Instead of thinking what is or isn't a good wage, think about type of job. In many large companies 30k is the pay of a middle manager of many years experience. When I was a little kid, in the south in the early-mid 80s, if your dad was a middle manager at a generic company you probably lived in a nice big three or four bedroom detatched house, perhaps with a double garage and a garden you could kick a ball about in.

If your Dad did something lower paid - like teaching - you still might live in a similar house but in a more built up close or estate. If your Dad was skilled blue collar or a bobby or somesuch you'd slum it in a big airy semi. If you were poor you lived in a nice big council house. Much less than this and you were seriously dirt-poor.

Now for the level of employment that used to land a 'three/four bed detached house' you only get to afford what used to be the lot of the dirt poor, if anything.

That's the crux of it.

Edited by CrashedOutAndBurned
Link to post
Share on other sites
Instead of thinking what is or isn't a good wage, think about type of job. In many large companies 30k is the pay of a middle manager of many years experience. When I was a little kid, in the south in the early-mid 80s, if your dad was a middle manager at a generic company you probably lived in a nice big three or four bedroom detatched house, perhaps with a double garage and a garden you could kick a ball about in.

If your Dad did something lower paid - like teaching - you still might live in a similar house but in a more built up close or estate. If your Dad was skilled blue collar or a bobby or somesuch you'd slum it in a big airy semi. If you were poor you lived in a nice big council house. Much less than this and you were seriously dirt-poor.

Now for the level of employment that used to land a 'three/four bed detached house' you only get to afford what used to be the lot of the dirt poor, if anything.

That's the crux of it.

Well said.

Question is, did folk have it too good back then, or should we still be able to afford properties in a similar manner?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you mate!

Living in North Tyneside I've just turned 25, £55k in savings and on £32k a year. A half decent 3 bed semi costs £180K not that we (my gf is a teacher in her first year) would be stretched cash wise but there is absolutely no way I will give up my hard earned savings on for over priced pile of bricks.

Why should I when in a few years time I can buy it for less?

I continuously read news of property price increases but I seriously have not seen this in my area, there’s a massive supply of homes for sale and in and around North Tyneside with no FTB's able to buy them, this house of cards is taking longer to come down than i imagined but I’m prepared to stick it out, I'm only 25 ffs!

Sometimes I think should I take a dive but then at a party on Saturday night I was speaking to a friends wife who said " you need to buy a house soon other wise the one you want will be three times as expensive if you hold out for five years!!!"

Sometimes I really do despair at the lack of financial sense in people old enough to know better.

Favre

Link to post
Share on other sites
:lol: Hopefully this tool is losing bundles , time for a spot of schadenfreude :lol:

Quite right! had to look up the word, but got it now.

(What does schadenfreude mean, you ask? It's taking pleasure in the misfortunes of others)

Enjoying it very much so, can't wait to see what rent he puts forward in June, I have already noticed rents in the area dropping and I could get a 2 bed house with garden for about £75 a month more than i'm paying for this noisy 1 bed flat. Will take extra pleasure in watching it sit on the market forever.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're on 30k, and you need to get a loan to buy a car? You not heard of a car auction, Autotrader or ebay? Personally I wouldn't pay more than a grand for a car but I'm not a 'car person'. You could still get a nice second hand car for £2,500-£3,000. Why don't you just get a cheap piece of sh1t while you save some dough (you should be able to save if you're on 30k or there's something wrong with you) and then use your savings to buy a better car? If you're earning that kind of money, I can't see a good reason for you to take on needless debt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure which is the more depressing. The OP's illiteracy which seemingly has not prevented him from landing what he considers a ' good ' job or the usual suspects wittering on about what constitutes an attractive salary.

I think it must be reasonably apparent to even those with the meanest of intelligence that the purchase of property in today's market is utterly dependent upon there being two earners involved in the transaction. Thus, we have the average punter, to the power of 2, borrowing whatever the current rate dictates, and the world keeps turning. Not exactly rocket science for Chrissakes, is it? Add to this mix the huge swathe of baby boomers willing and able to stump up the odd 50k deposit and Bob's your Dad's brother. The fact that 10 years of proto Stalinisn has resulted in a bloated service economy feeding off itself liberally laced with the spice of huge injections of recycled taxes ensures that the average punter, to the power of 2, will always be able to service his absurd leverage. Hardly surprising the Banks think they have died and gone to heaven.

Eventually the pieces will fall where they must, as they always do, but political considerations add a new element to the equation and in this current climate I'm at a loss to guesstimate when the denouement will occur.

But, back to the my original worry. Once upon a time education was much prized and one's ability to benefit thereby generally dictated one's place in society. Now, after 10 years of obscene interference by social inepts, evidently influenced by the worst post war government to ever inflict itself on what used to be the United Kingdom, we seem to have forsaken what most regarded as society's greatest civilizing marker.

Nothing really matters any more and it strikes me that the generation likely to be most affected by this malaise is probably the least able to recognise the fact.

One yearns for a financial Armageddon if only to watch their weeping and wailing but the awful prospect is they will probably just bleat incessantly for some such hardship subsidy which doubtless a fawning government of the day will duly oblige.

Still, there may be hope. I read an interesting article about the mutation of viral infections and there is the distinct possibility that a variant of the bird 'flu virus might combine with the ebola bug to form a super lurgy that kills within 3 days of the first sneeze. Now, would that be good or bad for my wretched endowment policy??

Edited by deus ex machina
Link to post
Share on other sites
Still, there may be hope. I read an interesting article about the mutation of viral infections and there is the distinct possibility that a variant of the bird 'flu virus might combine with the ebola bug to form a super lurgy that kills within 3 days of the first sneeze. Now, would that be good or bad for my wretched endowment policy??

Nothing new in that idea, it was the basis of the dire Dustin Hoffman monkey-fest "Outbreak"...

Ooh, fatal epidemic, makes me come over all GoldBug.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Still, there may be hope. I read an interesting article about the mutation of viral infections and there is the distinct possibility that a variant of the bird 'flu virus might combine with the ebola bug to form a super lurgy that kills within 3 days of the first sneeze. Now, would that be good or bad for my wretched endowment policy??

Is that the same as your rumour that Tony and Gordy are a bit brokeback?

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=39616

Link to post
Share on other sites
Was trying to say that the majority of folk up here (apart from sh*te managers in public sector) don't earn anywhere near £30k, so I concur, why should a man earning £30k not be able to afford a house in Middlesbrough?

David, it's over to you.

I think we're all agreed that houses are over valued. Why the emphasis on should? I'm not saying its right that houses in middlesborough are unaffordable. I'm saying that without a right to buy discount, without equity built up when houses are cheap that a man earning £30K does not earn enough to buy that nice/good house he expected to whilst borrowing responsibly.

I'm not saying that £30K isn't enough to live on or enough to keep food on the table or isn't above UK average earnign or isn't a shitload of money to earn in Teeside, I'm saying that if you can't enter the housing market with it it isn't a good wage today. Tomorrow could be different.

As to your other open question, I can't answer that. Presumably prices will become relatively cheaper than today but I won't expect it to ever be easy.

Love deus ex machina's post. Apologies for the poor standard of my education but I only got a B in GCSE English - probably only worth a D grade CSE. Is there an asset price equivalent for Parkinson's Law, as you've described?

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Obviously, if me and my partner bought together then we could get something much larger/ nicer. However, if we get married and have kids and she no longer works then we would be stuffed!!"

This made me laugh.............welcome to the situation us "rich" southerners have been in for over 10 years now. We have no choice for our wives / partners not to work becasue of the huge price of family homes unless we earn £70k p.a which most dont. Here in Bucks we struggled to let the wife have 6 months maternity leave for our first baby this year, and our move up the ladder from a two bed semi is impossible without her wages.

What you should be planning is what we have to do, how to get her into a job paying at least 75% of your wages so that after she has paid childcare for £700 p/m at least there is still another £700 or so left to help with the mortgage, bills and social life. And then make sure you have kids 4 years apart so only one is in childcare whilst the other is at school (state paid childcare 4y to 16y), and that you can survive on her future reduced part time wage from 9-3pm so she can do the school pick up.

And feel blessed that the banks and building societies that use "affordibility" calculations rather than income multipliers do not list "childcare costs" on their list of outgoings. A very interesting rule bend i think. You have to estimate how much for clothes, food, fuel, bills, holidays, socialising etc but obviously your childcare is "free" and does not have to be listed as almost half her wages!!!

Rant over!

M

Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you considered that £30K is no longer a 'good' wage?

30K is a very good wage especially for a young person and especially in the North East(about 50% above the regional average)It's just that zero equity that is a problem.That is the main problem for young people especially those with a student loan overhang.

I've never earned anything like that but my equity is ten times his gross earnings since the MPCs printing press has done the work for me during the last ten years because of their loose interest rate policy.

It is time this transfer of wealth from the young to the old was corrected with an asset slump.The only way that is going to happen is if the young stop buying properties which only sends the wealth up to the older generations at the top of the pyramid.

Link to post
Share on other sites

LEND BORROW STEAL who cares!!!!!!!! I take care at work, but while I'm sat at home watching tv and posting/ reading on the net I don't take much notice!!!!!!! Feel free to waste your time and correct me.

The answer to the car question is simple, I'm sick of old shit cars and feel I SHOULD BE ABLE TO buy a nice car. WHY NOT? Plenty of other people do, at least I'll be getting a good rate unlike many people. £30% at some garages or add it to the Mortgage, 20 years hp is cheap don't you know.

Abuse welcome...............

Plus, you choose to live in the South where houses are more expensive. Feel free to move to the North, as many people do....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 441 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.