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Blair, Brown, And Labour Party In Trouble


Guest Charlie The Tramp

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Blair, Brown, And Labour Party In Trouble

Oh, yea! Dream on! Just read these comments from Peter Kellner, writing earlier this year when the polls were roughly as they are now:

"The level of Conservative support, at 37%, is nothing exciting. It exceeded this figure in seven separate YouGov surveys during Howard's leadership, and twice under Iain Duncan Smith. An effective opposition ought to be scoring 45-50% when the Government of the day is in trouble. Labour was achieving these levels throughout 1990 – only to fall back after Thatcher left office, and lose the 1992 election.

Britain’s political geography is still tilted in Labour's favour. Even if the Conservatives sustained a six-point lead at the next general election, the best they could expect is to have just a few more MPs than Labour. They would remain far short of an overall majority in the new House of Commons. For this they need an 11-point lead. They remain far short of this target. "

Kellner. YouGov.

It's tough out there.

p

Well, the respect an 'M' can show to his peers is often limited due to his realisation that his peers will be blinded by an arrogant refusal of obvious facts.

So, you're not in Mensa, I see. Thought not.

p

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They would remain far short of an overall majority in the new House of Commons. For this they need an 11-point lead. They remain far short of this target.

But, of course, if the Tories have a 10-point lead and Labour win again with far less votes, you'll be telling us that 'the people have spoken', right?

But, there's no constituency called 'England'! Or 'Scotland', or 'United Kingdom'.

There's a Welsh parliament and a Scottish parliament; when do we get an English parliament and say goodbye to Labour governments forever?

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Labour are a certainty for re-election as long as they continue to hold Scotland and Wales.

All they have to do is to continue to subsidise the regional economies at the expense of England and to ensure that the majority of Scots and Welsh rely on the public sector for employment.

According to ONS, in mid-2005, the proportion of public sector employment as a proportion of all employment was as follows:

Scotland 24%

Wales 23%

England 20%

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I find Patprimer quite an interesting person. An idiot... definitely, but still fascinating for his/her moronic Labour supporting views. Like King Canute he/she sits there defiantly whilst the waves engulf him/her/it. All others have retreated, but good old Pat still spouts the New Labour line. Ya Boo, New Labour beat you rotten old Tories at the last election, so there, a poke in the eye for you.

Tell me, Patprimer, or should I call you Hazel Robot Blears, how do you manage to keep a straight face when you continually toe the party line? You are most definitely a plant, put up by Labour Head Office, like loads of others, to reply on their behalf on political blogs as you trawl through the internet.

You cannot honestly believe that your thoroughly discredited Party has any moral justification to stay in power. From Bernie Ecclestone, via Lakshmi Mittal, Mandelson, Vaz, Prescott, Blunkett, Levy it's like watching a photoshoot from Crimewatch. Lets see, apart from the lies about sending our country into a disgraceful illegal war, the suicide of David Kelly, the peerages for sale, can Labour sink any deeper?

Of course they can! A Chancellor that has introduced a shambles of a tax credit system, one of the lowest old age pensions in the EU, a refusal to compensate misled employees that have lost their company pensions even though two Parliamentay comittees have found against the Government. Any more? Of course...

A Chancellor that sold of more than half our gold reserves at a rock bottom price. The withdrawal of the dividend tax credit on pension schemes that has led to the devestation of the most envied pension system in Europe. The disgraceful way Brown changes the dates of fiscal planning and leaves out huge Govt. borrowing so he can stay within budget.

What about the way our troops are let down? From the lack of body armour, vehicles with no protection, bullets that don't fire and front line troops having wages withdrawn, words fail me.

Patprimer, your absurd Labour Party introduced the word Spin into politics. Another words for lying, cheating and complete manipulation of the truth.

Spin your lies by all means, but please don't expect anyone here to believe them anymore.

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I find Patprimer quite an interesting person. An idiot... definitely, but still fascinating for his/her moronic Labour supporting views. Like King Canute he/she sits there defiantly whilst the waves engulf him/her/it. All others have retreated, but good old Pat still spouts the New Labour line. Ya Boo, New Labour beat you rotten old Tories at the last election, so there, a poke in the eye for you.

Tell me, Patprimer, or should I call you Hazel Robot Blears, how do you manage to keep a straight face when you continually toe the party line? You are most definitely a plant, put up by Labour Head Office, like loads of others, to reply on their behalf on political blogs as you trawl through the internet.

You cannot honestly believe that your thoroughly discredited Party has any moral justification to stay in power. From Bernie Ecclestone, via Lakshmi Mittal, Mandelson, Vaz, Prescott, Blunkett, Levy it's like watching a photoshoot from Crimewatch. Lets see, apart from the lies about sending our country into a disgraceful illegal war, the suicide of David Kelly, the peerages for sale, can Labour sink any deeper?

Of course they can! A Chancellor that has introduced a shambles of a tax credit system, one of the lowest old age pensions in the EU, a refusal to compensate misled employees that have lost their company pensions even though two Parliamentay comittees have found against the Government. Any more? Of course...

A Chancellor that sold of more than half our gold reserves at a rock bottom price. The withdrawal of the dividend tax credit on pension schemes that has led to the devestation of the most envied pension system in Europe. The disgraceful way Brown changes the dates of fiscal planning and leaves out huge Govt. borrowing so he can stay within budget.

What about the way our troops are let down? From the lack of body armour, vehicles with no protection, bullets that don't fire and front line troops having wages withdrawn, words fail me.

Patprimer, your absurd Labour Party introduced the word Spin into politics. Another words for lying, cheating and complete manipulation of the truth.

Spin your lies by all means, but please don't expect anyone here to believe them anymore.

What a cross little person you are, thunderbox!

p

Are you "M" or "F", Pat? It's just that I get this image of Harriet Harman whenever you post, please say you're "F" :D

'M', chris - so that's one theory out of the window.

p

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"What a cross little person you are, thunderbox!

p"

So I take it Patprimer you agree with me with regards to your inability to answer any of my criticisms about your disgraceful party.

Cross? Of course I am. New Labour have forfeited any moral right to govern this country. Everything about Labour stinks of sleaze, manipulation of the truth, lies, cronyism ad nauseam. The sooner they are consigned to the dustbin of history the better.

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"What a cross little person you are, thunderbox!

p"

So I take it Patprimer you agree with me with regards to your inability to answer any of my criticisms about your disgraceful party.

Cross? Of course I am. New Labour have forfeited any moral right to govern this country. Everything about Labour stinks of sleaze, manipulation of the truth, lies, cronyism ad nauseam. The sooner they are consigned to the dustbin of history the better.

I'd be happy to answer each and every one of your 'accusations' but I doubt it would be of any use.

The way you spout Daily Fascist word-for-word criticisms I can only assume that you're mind is pretty well closed to any argument whether good or bad.

By the way, I'm surprised at the small number of complaints you have after a whole decade of Labour government. Lets hope they'll be just as few for the next ten years of Labour rule i.e. the five year Brown premiership (2008-13) and the Darling first administration (2013-2018).

You're cross now? Your going to be f,,c|<ing livid by then !! :D:D

p

But, of course, if the Tories have a 10-point lead and Labour win again with far less votes, you'll be telling us that 'the people have spoken', right?

No. I'd be telling you that Labour had won the election.

You'd be saying to me that Labour had unfairly won the election.

Stop moaning about the rules of the game; do something about it.

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There's a Welsh parliament and a Scottish parliament; when do we get an English parliament and say goodbye to Labour governments forever?

If I had my way, we'd get rid of both the Welsh and Scottish delegated houses immediately. They were just a sop to the minority, but vociferous, nationalists. I loathe the Scottish and Welsh Nationalists as much as the Conservative English Nationalist Party. Nationalism is just objectionable.

By the way, as there is a permanent overall English majority of MP's in the Commons, they can always out-vote the 'peripherals'. So they can disband the E & S 'parliaments' whenever they like or set up an English one in Croydon if that's their choice. For the same reason, the Midlothian Question is just a myth.

As to your second wish, I'm afraid that declaring UDI from the UK would not make our Merry Olde England a Tory Utopia. If you don't get the fptp system removed, you'd still have a Labour government. (I think I'm right in saying that Labour has had a majority of parliamentary seats in England since 1997.) Funny that!

p

So the Leadership has already been decided by those men in smokey rooms. :)

Good God, Yes!! Didn't you know! ;)

p

Edited by patprimer74
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Patprimer, it's patently obvious your intellect is severely limited. If you are happy to answer my criticisms go ahead... feel free. This is an open forum. The whole point being is that you have no counter argument. Everything I mentioned about your disgraceful excuse for a political party is true. I have not quoted out of any newspaper. I form my own opinion, certainly not from reading any one Murdoch rag or the Blair Broadcasting Corporation.

Even today the MOD were criticised for not supplying body armour to our soldiers. Why did this happen? As a direct result of cost cutting ordered by your dear Chancellor.

I ask you again. Answer some, or all of my ccriticisms about New Labour with a sensible balanced counter argument. I wish you luck.

I assume you will have to refer to No 10 for a briefing first.

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Everything I mentioned about your disgraceful excuse for a political party is true.

Then you'll have no trouble convincing the people of this country to vote another party into power next time. I have to say that, bearing in mind that a lot of the faults you find with Labour came into the open years ago, you and your ilk haven't been very successful in convincing the voters of your half-baked views.

Just saying things are 'true' doesn't make them true. It just means that in your biased opinion they are so. Others don't agree with you. Hard lines, loser.

p

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Patprimer, again you refuse to even try to counter some or all of the points I made about New Labour. So, I am a loser because I believe Tony Blair lied to the country and entered us into an illegal war? Are you seriously suggeting the UK electorate believe your point of view and I am in a minority?

Did John Prescott not shag his secretary in his office, or was he set up by the nasty gutter press to discredit him?

Did Mandelson not commit mortgage fraud by lying on his mortgage application or was it just the C&G making it all up?

Was Bernie Ecclestone just being generous when he just happened to give Labour one million pounds?

Is it my imagination or is the Labour Party currently being investigated by Scotland Yard for flogging peerages?

Patprimer, do I really need to go on? You are making a complete fool of yourself by even trying to defend your beloved party.

I actually think you are a wind up merchant. Do you remember the Python sketch where John Cleese charges by the minute to have an argument. Any argument as long as the customer pays up. You are impersonating John Cleese. Either that, or you are a complete Knob Head.

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Patprimer,

By the time the real state of the economy and people's living standards (and how it has been affected in the future as a result) becomes apparent you'll be lucky to see your party elected again in your lifetime. Doesn't what you or I type here. It is already baked in the cake. When the spin breaks down all you are left with is a bitter taste in the mouth - that is why you just cannot get your head around the fact that the things that were known and are not new unknowns are now having new and strange effects on the pollster's results. It is over, all bar the counting. God help the next incumbents, can't think why they would want to grab for power at this stage.

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God help the next incumbents, can't think why they would want to grab for power at this stage.

I totally agree with this sentiment, but the problem for all opposition parties is they cannot say "hey look out the debt situation is unsustainable and don't let yourself go tits up on property" without actually inducing the situation. From the standpoint of the opposition, the situation must be seen to blacken on Labour's watch.

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Is this a 5 minute argument or a 10 minute one? ;)

Relax, Thunderbox. Stop being such a puerile little crosspatch. Enjoy the month Christmas break.

As I've said before, there's no point in discussing any of these issues with you because your mind is made up. In any case it would take a lot longer than you've paid for to even explain one of them satisfactorily. Do you really believe that you have anything new to say about these issues that hasn't been said hundreds of times already? We've all heard them ad nauseam and largely ignored them - then gone on to re-elect a Labour government with a 160 member majority over what remains of the Tory Party.

So, don't get mad; get even. Get out there and convince the voters that you've found the answer to all problems. They just have to trust you and you'll lead them to the Promised Land.

Time's up! You've had your fourpennyworth.

p

Edited by patprimer74
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Patprimer, time and time again I ask you to dispute my criticisms of New Labour. Time and time again you refuse. Your only argument is like the ya boo politics at Prime Minister question time. We won the election three times on the trot so there. It's almost infantile in it's wisdom.

The fact that there is no credible opposition is indicative of the state of politics in this country. That does not make Labour whiter than white. It has nothing to do with my mind being made up. It has everything to do with robots like you who follow the party line, come what may. Do you watch the Labour Party conference with pride or are you appalled that it resembles an old type Soviet Red Square parade where the leaders can do no wrong? Where Blair and Brown spout their usual tub thumping rhetoric and sound bites, and in reality say nothing?

You say it would take a lot of time to explain satisfactorily any of my criticisms about New Labour. Try me. Go on then, try and excuse Prescott's disgraceful behaviour. Explain why the Prime Minister of this country lied to his people to go to war. Why Brown Nose continually lies about the state of the economy?

"Relax, Thunderbox. Stop being such a puerile little crosspatch." WTF are you on about?

Patprimer, is English your first language or are you just an idiot?

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Come on Patprimer, lets hear some excuses for the wasteful little shysters you seem to support.

http://www.hemscott.com/news/latest-news/i...=38287486141516

UK's Prescott spends 645 stg of taxpayers' cash on new office sign

LONDON (AFX) - Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott has spent 645 stg of taxpayers' money on switching his office sign from 'Office of the Deputy Prime Minister' to 'Deputy Prime Minister's Office', according to a written answer obtained by the opposition Conservative Part

Edited by OnlyMe
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patprimer, are you really Ed B@llox, Gordon Brown's trusted servant Igor, as they are alleging on Guido Fawkes blog ? (click on comments under "Any answers Dave?" and scroll down)

Don't you have anything better to do than post NuLabour sh>te on here? Like bugg@ring up the country for instance.

BTW do you still rate Brown's chances of becoming leader? He looks like damaged goods to me. :lol:

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patprimer, are you really Ed B@llox, Gordon Brown's trusted servant Igor, as they are alleging on Guido Fawkes blog ?

I thought he was Gordon Brown myself; hard to see who else could be so pro-Labour and totally detached from reality.

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  • 440 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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