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Its All Just A Little Bit Of History Repeating....


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on august 23rd 1931,

the labour government collapsed to be replaced by a coalition national government that included all three main parties. the facists were a minority and the globe was on a huge economic downturn. the bulk of people had believed its leaders had been railroaded into betraying the partys fundemental socialist principles by governing over a period of increased taxation and spending while increasing poverty for some time. the divide between rich and poor was growing under labour. this was not what the people had voted for.

on 9th september 1931,

to change the tide, the emergency coalition government brought in a new harsh economy bill. in effect an immediate 10% cut in governemnt spending, includng benefit payments to the unemployed including new means testing measures. being already in dire economic poverty the NUWM organised a national hunger march to london. wth a 1 million signed petition in their hands they indented to present it to parliament calling for the abolition of the means test. this was wholly opposed by the authorities. while the marchers gathered for a rally on hyde park on the day, the petition was kept within an underground station. when they went back to collect it, it had been 'lost'.

on october 1st 1931

several hundred demonstrators gathered around the square in front of salford town hall to protest at the 10% cuts and means testing. a pitched battle with police broke out and 12 were arrested. one week later 5,000 gathered at ardwick green, manchester to hand in a further petition. the police informed the marchers that the route was provacative and tried to block it. fighting again broke out.

the next day manchester witnessed scenes reminiscent of the general strike. police guards on public buildings and the mobilisation of special constables on an unprecedented scale.

seems to me if you replace the dates with 2008 and the party labour with new labour,

then (x=23+ y(1=23) (æ)

then a bit later a dirty great war broke out.

dont say i didnt warn you.

Edited by right_freds_dead
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We are due for another big dirty war. Rest assured that it won't be fought on the TV screen in a distant land. In case you've missed it America is resuming production of Tritium. Tritium is used to make the nukes that destroy cities/continents.

If you thought the cold war was bad - this is worse. Last time MAD worked. This time the leaders really are mentally ill.

Why is Bush selling F-16s to Pakistan?

By Fred Kaplan

Posted Wednesday, March 30, 2005, at 7:01 PM ET

With his decision last week to sell F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan, President Bush returns to a dangerous game of self-deception that hasn't been seen at this level of risk since Richard Nixon was in the White House.

Worse still, the latest version of the plane, the F-16C/D—which is the model Pakistan will receive—can carry atomic bombs under its wings. The plane's wiring would have to be modified in order for the bombs to be fused and dropped, but German intelligence agencies reported long ago that the Pakistanis have figured out how to do this.

List of players. Please read the entire list. As I understand it to be classed as a nuclear power the country needs to have the warheads attatched to a delivery system. Having the warhead in one room and the missiles in another means you aren't on the list ;)

Uranium sales to China approved

By Sandra O'Malley

December 06, 2006 04:23pm

Article from: AAP

Send this article: Print Email

A PARLIAMENTARY committee has given the green light for Australian uranium sales to China, opening the door to an annual $250 million export windfall.

But opponents warn it will see Australian uranium being used in nuclear weapons.

The committee was charged with examining the uranium sales deal between the two countries, including a safeguards agreement, which it found to be in the national interest.

It is convinced there are suitable measures in place to ensure Australian uranium will only be used for peaceful purposes, including China's membership of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty (NPT) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

China currently has enough uranium to provide nuclear power or build more weapons but not both. For a few pieces of silver they now can do both :angry: It's irrelevant wether the Aussie uranium is used for weapons or for power.

Edited by GCS15
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I am pulling together a history of Average House Price and Average Annual Earnings data for the period 1930 - 2006. When I have the full 2006 data I will post the data file, data sources and charts but the edited highlight is as follows:

1930 Average Earnings = £ 195.80 Average House Price = £ 590 Ratio HP/E = 3.01

2006 Average Earnings = £34,957.80 Average House Price = £198,552 Ratio HP/E = 5.68 (based on September values)

Astonishingly the long run ratio of house prices to earnings FOR THE 70 YEARS between 1930 - 1999 = 3.05

The ratio has also been remakably stable around the 3.0 level for those 70 years and then rocketed to almost double that in the last 7 years (2000 - 2006). At no time in living memory has the ratio of house price to earnings been anywhere near today's bubble level of 5.68. This is surely is the most likley cause of social strife we have. Even right after World War 2 when many houses had been bombed and people wanted to start families the average house price still only reach 4 x average earnings. How on earth did we get here?

If anyone can let me know how to paste a chart directly into a post I am happy to give you the full time line.

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If you can convert the chart to .jpg or .gif format then you can upload an image by using the "File Attachments" box below and browsing for the location of the file.

To get the chart in the first place either export from the package you are using (if possible) or do a screen grab and save.

Might want to look at the debt ratios as well - debt/earnings. Thing is this in itself is highly misleading as over the years tax has done pretty much nothing other than increased (both direct and indirect for the general population).

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Average earnings nearly £35k,I thought it was mid £20's !!

I think the Earnings data I have is for Male Earnings but one of the things I still have to do is check exactly how the different sources calculate 'Average' Earnings and what sectors they include. As long as the data is consistent throughout the entire history then the ratio is comparable across time...but how it is weighted, what sectors it includes and whether bonus and overtime is included are also important in making sense of the ratios too.

IDS reports average full time employed male earnings at about £31,500 for April 2005 but the DWP Abstract of Statistics suggests it is was about £29,000

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  • 3 years later...

The NUWM is back and the men signing on look like they are wasting away.Maybe I should use plastic to party? http://www.youtube.c...bZM Or maybe there are some minimum wage {([+inflation]+0.5%] to cover the RSL ex council housing rent)} jobs going...And all will be wellOr should I just ask you for your wallet in town?How much do I owe you again, more to the point, what for?

Edited by Unemployed Youth
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The ratio has also been remakably stable around the 3.0 level for those 70 years and then rocketed to almost double that in the last 7 years (2000 - 2006). At no time in living memory has the ratio of house price to earnings been anywhere near today's bubble level of 5.68.

...the effect of securitisation ....when this stopped inter bank funding dried up 2007/08....the realignment of the ratio from 2008 is slowly moving into place ....by the heels in some corners (OO and BTL vendors)...... :rolleyes:

Edited by South Lorne
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I am pulling together a history of Average House Price and Average Annual Earnings data for the period 1930 - 2006. When I have the full 2006 data I will post the data file, data sources and charts but the edited highlight is as follows:

1930 Average Earnings = £ 195.80 Average House Price = £ 590 Ratio HP/E = 3.01

2006 Average Earnings = £34,957.80 Average House Price = £198,552 Ratio HP/E = 5.68 (based on September values)

Astonishingly the long run ratio of house prices to earnings FOR THE 70 YEARS between 1930 - 1999 = 3.05

The ratio has also been remakably stable around the 3.0 level for those 70 years and then rocketed to almost double that in the last 7 years (2000 - 2006). At no time in living memory has the ratio of house price to earnings been anywhere near today's bubble level of 5.68. This is surely is the most likley cause of social strife we have. Even right after World War 2 when many houses had been bombed and people wanted to start families the average house price still only reach 4 x average earnings. How on earth did we get here?

If anyone can let me know how to paste a chart directly into a post I am happy to give you the full time line.

Without wishing to come across all bull - like, I think you need to take in to account the fact that most women now work. I think that average income per family unit or something along those lines will give a slightly different picture.

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Without wishing to come across all bull - like, I think you need to take in to account the fact that most women now work. I think that average income per family unit or something along those lines will give a slightly different picture.

...true ...the £34,000 is average household income .....not individual..... :rolleyes:

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on october 1st 1931

several hundred demonstrators gathered around the square in front of salford town hall to protest at the 10% cuts and means testing. a pitched battle with police broke out and 12 were arrested.

Causing problems even then fred, I hope you are more subdued today. :rolleyes:

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Without wishing to come across all bull - like, I think you need to take in to account the fact that most women now work. I think that average income per family unit or something along those lines will give a slightly different picture.

course it IS a BUll argument...Women CANT work for the duration of the loan IF the human race is to survive.

therefore, just about ANY loan that is barely afordable at outset using a dual income for a "normal" couple,especially if it is IO, and on a low starter rate, and at a time when interest rates are at record lows, must be sub prime at best, impossible to repay at worst... and the lenders know it.

Let alone NINJA loans.

Its a good comparison that RFD has shown up...except, the poor arent starving these days...indeed, many are overfed and hyperactive.

such is the size of the bubble we have blown.

And, I beleive that during and before that period, we had huge productive World class industries producing just about everything.

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I think the Earnings data I have is for Male Earnings but one of the things I still have to do is check exactly how the different sources calculate 'Average' Earnings and what sectors they include. As long as the data is consistent throughout the entire history then the ratio is comparable across time...but how it is weighted, what sectors it includes and whether bonus and overtime is included are also important in making sense of the ratios too.

IDS reports average full time employed male earnings at about £31,500 for April 2005 but the DWP Abstract of Statistics suggests it is was about £29,000

Those wage 'estimates' are grotesquely distorted by the huge rises in income, way above inflation for anyone on over £50,000 over the last decade (+ Bonuses)

People in the shires are not on anything like that outside the sarf east!

It's one of their 'conjured' feel-good numbers!

Edited by erranta
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China currently has enough uranium to provide nuclear power or build more weapons but not both. For a few pieces of silver they now can do both :angry: It's irrelevant wether the Aussie uranium is used for weapons or for power.

Does it really matter if they have any more? China already has 280 bombs on MIRVs they can stick one per capital city on earth. Having London nuked would pretty much devastate the entire economy. Course the USSR and USA have enough to nuke every sq metre on the planet though multiple times, but such activities are pointless as nuclear war is in effect a terrorist war as you actively target enemy civilians on purpose.

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But the Chinese are busy investing and buying up all central London properties, so there is no chance they will nuke their property in Kensington, Chelsea etc

They wouldnt dare anyway..theyd get a visit from the "Nuclear Free Zone" people if they dropped one.

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Don't you think it is a bit of a stretch to link the 30s depression with WWII? Germany was doing very well and doing better than anybody else. It was Hitler's decision to go the war route and not applicable to anyone in England. In hindsight Germany could have dominated Europe by demonstrated economic success. If they had made washing machines and refrigerators instead of tanks and battleships then they would have been far more successful and have dominated Europe and probably England as well. WWII, in hindsight , was a big mistake and came out of prosperity, not hardship.

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I am pulling together a history of Average House Price and Average Annual Earnings data for the period 1930 - 2006. When I have the full 2006 data I will post the data file, data sources and charts but the edited highlight is as follows:

1930 Average Earnings = £ 195.80 Average House Price = £ 590 Ratio HP/E = 3.01

2006 Average Earnings = £34,957.80 Average House Price = £198,552 Ratio HP/E = 5.68 (based on September values)

The thing that jumps out at me is wages and house prices have both increased by a factor of several hundred in approximately a lifetime. With this trend in mind, I wouldn't sweat about buying a house, although I would sweat about holding cash.

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