Job Advice To A Soon-to-be-graduate...

[debtfree]

That sir, is a very shrewd observation.

Yea, that's right, because there's no way we'll EVER see immigrants coming in and doing Locksmith jobs at reduced wages. Ever. Impossible!

wow, what an amazing thought and mind you have, but the reality is, any berk could say that about any job.

there aren't many locksmiths about, do you know any ?

how many people go to college to become a locksmith ?

answer : none

why ? because there is no recognised qualification for a locksmith as it has always been a family trade passed down through generations. so i don't think you'll find the competition very hard going as would a plumber or an electrician where lots of immigrants could come in and fill their jobs.

[Charles_Darke]

Or perhaps just disagreeing?

I was saying that physical presence isn't enough to guarantee job safety. If you disagree, that's fine, but you seem to be arguing against yourself in that case.

Edited November 9, 2006 by Charles_Darke

[peemac]

Dont know which University you work in but it aint mine. Granted Imperial is one of the top Unis but you need a PhD from there not a 2:2. Universities are *very* snobby about the grade you get. Even with a PhD, if it is not a first you have a problem. Used to be you would have no change of getting a PhD with only a 2:2 either.

Also wonder where all these other perks come from. I am not a lecturer myself but know anyone in academia who takes more holiday than non academic friends. They simply have too much work to do. Granted the work is enjoyable but the pension fund is about to tank and the buildings are on the verge of falling down. Academics have also not have a real-terms pay rise for 40 year! (in another 40 it will be the average manual wage!).

Right, lets start from the beginning. Postgraduate qualifications with EPSRC funding are now funded very well. You're looking at £12,500 tax free for the right masters course (no problem with an imperial 2:2), approx £16,000 (tax free) for a CASE award PhD and approx £20,000 tax free for an EngD. In fact if you want stay technical that would be my advice: do a masters then look for an EngD supported by a good industrial partner. We do a lot with Rolls Royce and Unilever and they're an excellent way to get your foot in the door, think of them as a 4 year interview. If you;re good they will not let you go at the end.

Universities are *not* very snobby about the grade you get if your previous tutors have good things to say about you. My boss (a proffessor at one of the top 3 engineering departments in the UK according to RAE) graduated with a 2:2 from portsmouth poly. He also takes some very nice holidays, alongside the extensive travel he does through work.

Saying the pension fund is about to tank is playground rhetoric, it has no more chance of tanking than any other PS pension. It might change, it might not. My money is on the final salary scheme closing to new employees only.

Our buildings aren't falling down - we've just had a few major refurbs. very nice they are too. Although I fail to see how that would be relevant to a job. yet more playground rhetoric.

Academics have just had a real-terms pay rise. And you get increments too, which is nice.

You sound like an embittered technician or secretary to me, actually you sound like a wannabe lecturer. Which uni you at? If it's a snobby one it's got to be one that's only fair to middling. Or maybe a 'new' uni. They've all got delusions of grandeur.

Edited November 9, 2006 by peemac

[laurejon]

The Army are always looking for new recruits and I suspect as a Graduate you can get in as an officer from day 1.

A life in the Army will facilitate you travelling around the world, meeting interesting people, and learning a skill such as Carpentry, Plumming, Bricklaying, or Painting. Its extremely well paid, and even better since the Government announcement on Tax Free Earnings for Servicemen serving in Iraq.

[iangilb]

You sound like an embittered technician or secretary to me, actually you sound like a wannabe lecturer. Which uni you at? If it's a snobby one it's got to be one that's only fair to middling. Or maybe a 'new' uni. They've all got delusions of grandeur.

Pretty close. I am the local UCU (Union) rep.

No seriously, I agree working in a Uni is a good place but it is also not the Bees Knees you make it out to be. The sector has some serious problems and people need to get past all that 'travel the world (yes - on work) and take the summer off' crap - it simply is not true and would not get tolerated.

Straw poll here has a 2:2, even from IC, as not good enough to make it in academia but I accept it is what you do in your research that really counts. As far as buildings, things have not got any better since this story from the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3479815.stm

"Within the England and Northern Ireland bid, £3.75bn was needed for making up a shortfall in investment in buildings, laboratories, lecture theatres and other infrastructure."

In fact THES has it at over £4bn now.

[Mikesev]

Some great advice in here, I can't give a full response at the moment, but I will do soon. Thanks to everyone for replying though.

[peemac]

Pretty close. I am the local UCU (Union) rep.

No seriously, I agree working in a Uni is a good place but it is also not the Bees Knees you make it out to be. The sector has some serious problems and people need to get past all that 'travel the world (yes - on work) and take the summer off' crap - it simply is not true and would not get tolerated.

Straw poll here has a 2:2, even from IC, as not good enough to make it in academia but I accept it is what you do in your research that really counts. As far as buildings, things have not got any better since this story from the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3479815.stm

"Within the England and Northern Ireland bid, £3.75bn was needed for making up a shortfall in investment in buildings, laboratories, lecture theatres and other infrastructure."

In fact THES has it at over £4bn now.

Trouble is few jobs are the bees knees. I've been out in industry and I didn't like what I saw, offices full of people still slaving away at 6pm because no-one wanted to be seen to be the first one to leave. Aside from the fact it's a completely innefective way to work it's not a lifestyle I want to subscribe to - fair enough academic hours can be long but you rarely have the sense of someone looking over your shoulder watching and noting your every move. If you're good at what you do you can pretty much fly under the radar if you want.

It is your research that's relevant, and who you know and what they think of you. You must know that acadaemia is one of the biggest old boys clubs going. I got offered my first postdoc over lunch at a conference. The guy knew my PhD supervisor, knew he thought I was good and knew I was looking for something. Still had to go through the formalities, but it was unlikely one of the other candidates would have been offered the job.

[camem']

there aren't many locksmiths about, do you know any ?

debtfree, are you a locksmith ?

[Lionel Richtea]

Trouble is few jobs are the bees knees. I've been out in industry and I didn't like what I saw, offices full of people still slaving away at 6pm because no-one wanted to be seen to be the first one to leave.

Slaving away until 6 pm!!??

Jeez, those guys were machines.

[peemac]

Slaving away until 6 pm!!??

Jeez, those guys were machines.

ooooh you're so clever and ironic.

You and others might have nothing better to with your time than work long hours. I have, and I enjoy it.

[Lionel Richtea]

ooooh you're so clever and ironic.

You and others might have nothing better to with your time than work long hours. I have, and I enjoy it.

And you're so naive and a waste of tax money.

Oh, and to complete the ad hominem, you smell also.

[peemac]

And you're so naive and a waste of tax money.

Oh, and to complete the ad hominem, you smell also.

lol

Are you judging by results there? I think you'll find I was one of Gordon Brown's better investments.

Naive's an interesting label too. Care to expand on just what you mean instead of 'witty' one liners?

[Levy process]

wow, what an amazing thought and mind you have, but the reality is, any berk could say that about any job.

there aren't many locksmiths about, do you know any ?

how many people go to college to become a locksmith ?

answer : none

why ? because there is no recognised qualification for a locksmith as it has always been a family trade passed down through generations. so i don't think you'll find the competition very hard going as would a plumber or an electrician where lots of immigrants could come in and fill their jobs.

What's your point? Are you saying there is a barrier to entry to becoming a locksmith? LOL!

[flatnose]

Given your ambitions and likely poor grade, your choice of accountancy seems wise. I'd look into audit to get the CA qualification and good exposure to a wide range of businesses.

However, I'd advise you to leave and set up as soon as you qualify as accountancy will suck the life out of you.

Absolutely, your still young...do summat dangerous, go travelling...take a year off to think about it. There is no rush!!!

My advice, and I mean this in the nicest possible way. F*** off from the UK as soon as possible....................

I second that!! Get outta here....deep doodoo is heading this way

[still_renting]

Or perhaps just disagreeing?

My point is this: I've heard people stating pap about the "recession proof job" and the "offshoring proof job" before. In my opinion, it is crap. There is no such thing. Just because you have to be physically present to do your job, like a plumber or a locksmith doesn't protect you from global wage depression caused by skills from overseas. Immigration can and does allow people to come and render skills cheaply here, in person, being physically present. It is the reason that the NHS hasn't collapsed sooner, because nurses from overseas are prepared to work here for fak all, driving the wages down to a point where if we relied on local labour there would be a shortage.

Just because you can't imagine somebody sitting in an office doing your job in India doesn't mean that Indians or Eastern Europeans or anyone else can't come here and do your job for you at lower cost. They are prepared to work for less, often harder, and often with as much skill.

Get ready to be wage-deflated, whatever you do! It's game over if you think you can hold onto your standard of living just because you think your physical presence is required to administer your wonderful job service.

Recently saw 40 perfect PhD CVs for one job. PhD's - ten a penny. Get with the new globalisation workforce program! Your middle class education won't save you!

Recession proof job? - become an undertaker or get into care for the elderly - with the ever increasing/aging population these roles are sure winners :-)

[www]

Some careers you might consider:-

Hitman for the BNP

Transvestite prostitute

Estate Agent

although be careful about the last one.

[oracle]

Depends. If you move into a field not related to your degree (like accountancy) that's true. If you get a job where high numeracy is valued, the importance of your degree will persist. Physics is regarded as almost THE best training in numerical based thinking. Mathematics is clearly up there two, but for some reason Physics almost has an edge, In my experience this is because physicists are often better at cutting out what is unimportant in a numerical problem. Unfortunately a 2:2 may not be enough to cut the mustard in the high paying jobs like banking though. On the other hand IC is a great place to get a degree from. Good luck with trying for the 2:1.

.....funny thing is,engineerining is often seen as a geeky occupation.

You NEED to be very analytical in any pure science subject.

funnily enough,some engineering grads do migrate into finance,and are often amongst the top performing fund managers.....it really does take that attention to detail to make a successful number cruncher.

well done on your choice of course,just put the leg work in and the world is your oyster.

I'm more of a hands-on guy,I enjoy watching the projects I'm commissioned with come to fruition,so spending every day looking at balance sheets isn't for me...I have to do my own and to be honest I find it a chore....I get much more out of helping my babies(projects) form and grow.

Slaving away until 6 pm!!??

Jeez, those guys were machines.

...wait until you get a contract then!!!

....if the job requires it you can do 16 hour days,7 days a week if needs be.

no sick pay,no paid holiday.....you make your own way,and if you value your customers,you give them what they want on time and on budget.

[Ah-so]

I also agree that you should bust a gut for a 2.1.

With so many graduates around these days, it is the easiest way for firms to get sort the thousands of application forms. I expect some employ temps to do it. Wrong grade - mark "reject". The employers also use A-levels these days as "everyone has a 2.1".

The big 4 accountancy firms all expect 2.1s as do the quality medium firms (just looked at Grant Thornton's web site). If you apply now, put a 1st as your expected grade - it is plausible from Imperial and they expect everyone to inflate their grade.

I thought Industry is crying out for scientists, so I hope that their will be opening for you there, rather than wasting your life as an auditor.

[Ah-so]

My point is this: I've heard people stating pap about the "recession proof job" ...before. In my opinion, it is crap. There is no such thing.

Oh yes there is - become an insolvency professional.

[Simontig]

You sound a bit similar to me 20 years ago - 2.2 Science degree in Geochemistry. Having resisted the attractions of mud logging in the North Sea I joined KPMG as a trainee auditor. Me and my best mate Jon used to drone on to each other(through the bottom of our beer glasses) "I'll just get the piece of paper then I'll do something else". Well I only lasted a year but he's still there after 21 years. Being a chartered accountant is good training for....being a chartered accountant. But hey - each to his own.

My year as an auditor was a desultory experience - I probably learned more picking potatoes in Suffolk, washing cars for a dodgy Clapham car dealer or making meat pies in Northampton (and those were the good jobs). The final straw for me was falling asleep in the Hambros Bank audit room after a boozy Friday lunch (they don't do that any more in the City do they?) As you can tell, I wasn't 100% committed to the cause. (No offence to other auditors - some of my best friends are auditors...)

Being more serious for a second - if you want to get number crunching experience, why don't you do a more practically focused accountancy qualification like ACCA. You could then look for a company/sector that interests you and get valuable work experience while you study finance. That way you would be in a REAL company not wandering in and out as an auditor adding up bank reconciliations . A good way to start is also temp to perm. I would also recommend for you a small/medium sized firm where you can get real hands on experience - this would tie in with your enttrepreneurial angle. After 3 years temping I got offered a job by a dynamic little company trading metals out of China - 'money's no object and we'll pay for your ACCA' (but I didn't take it...)

Finally, with your attitude I'm sure you'll be fine whatever you do. As others have said, don't worry about the 2.2 - once you get that first job you'll never look back...And you can't predict the future - I ended up doing a masters in Psychology, became a trainer and moved to Italy. Life can surprise you (unless you become a tax accountant...lol)

Good luck!

[carbonoid]

BTL LL is wonderful self employment, House prices can only go up forever and you'll make millions at it.

You only need some very a basic tool to setup: Paintbrush