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I don't often buy our local rag (Nottm Evening Post) but something on their front page on Friday caught my eye.

Stats have been made public about just how few of the thousands of luxury flats are actually selling here:

CITY LIVING: 600 FLATS LEFT EMPTY

CHARLES WALKER POLITICAL EDITOR

12:00 - 03 November 2006

More that 600 city centre apartments are lying empty in Nottingham as supply outstrips demand.

Loft living was all the rage five years ago as old warehouses in areas such as the Lace Market were converted into homes.

Dozens of new apartment blocks have been built around the city centre in the last few years.

Now a report from Nottingham City Council has revealed that 15% of the flats are vacant - and 18% are occupied by students. And a further 3,795 "luxury" apartments are still being built - or are set to be built.

The figures have led to warnings of an oversupply of small one- and two-bedroom properties.

There are also fears that large numbers of unoccupied flats will stifle the regeneration of the city centre, lead to crime, and undermine future development.

Coun Graham Chapman said: "We have supply outstripping demand.

"What worries me is that 15% oversupply will keep growing and there will be a bigger gap in the future."

I know someone who has invested in them and walked straight into the pitfalls - paying over the odds only to see their value erode within months (their financial adviser told them to sell up asap but they can't get rid of them); seeing all the flats around being rented out to students (turning the whole block into a student dorm with vomit in the lifts, litter and 24-hour partying) and the inevitable strangers lurking in the carpark and stolen mail.

This person now wants out as they are having to put £300 of their own money into the properties each month to cover the mortgages.

I really hope they can battle on and not lose a lot of money, but think the folks on here describing these flats as the social housing of the future might be right and that level of rent wont pay the loans.

HH

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  • 3 months later...
Wow they're all at it !!!

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-146...14&tr_t=buy

Actually these ones are all new, but thats a heck of a lot of apartments hitting the market in Nottingham in one go.

Yes, there are even flats going on the market in the one area I thought might hold it's value - those on the edge of The Park, overlooking Nottingham Castle.

Off subject slightly, but in my area (Carlton) I've been watching houses sell, then come back on the market a month or so later at reduced price (at first I thought it was folks flipping them). One place has 'sold' three times in the last 5 months.

And, anecdotally I heard of 2 folks who have had their houses on the market for nearly two years without a sniff (one is in Kimberley - a sought-after area).

The apartment block you've linked to here is brand new, and in one of the worse areas. The Nottm Council are determined to regenerate the area of Sneinton (they're calling it the Eastside Project)...it seems like a lot of money to watch drugs being scored and dossers sleeping it off in the 'beautifully landscaped park' below.

;)

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  • 2 months later...
This cheeky chappy =

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-562...=3&tr_t=buy

I was looking at Netherfield properties before Christmas, and the lowest was £75k.. if memory serves me correctly this one was about 78k.

It's looking good :)

I said further up in the thread that I would be looking to rent one of these new "BTL Investments". Well I did, and got the rent reduced some £90 from what the previous chap was paying.

The new LL had bought off another LL, the first one lost £8K in the sale. The new one is £35 a month short on the interest on his mortgage with the deal that I did with him, not to mention the property services fees he has to pay. So with no capital gains at the moment, it is a certain short term-medium term loss.

So many of these apartments available. Within 1/2 a mile radius of me, theres 51 apartments up for sale at under £120,000. There's also 67 apartments available to rent for £500 per month or less (no bartering included, lol), in the same 1/2 mile radius. (All using rightmove)

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  • 2 weeks later...

"Signs of Change ?" - Absolutely.

JoePublic speaking;

Here are a few from my locality which I've seen drop over the past 6 weeks (some are not on property snake though - dunno why...).

This one...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-147...=1&tr_t=buy

...reduced from £275,000 to £259,950 about two weeks ago (now 'under offer' - wonder what offer...)

This one...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-155...=1&tr_t=buy

...with a new agent and £5k less now...

This one...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-151...=1&tr_t=buy

...was on the market for £204,950 about 5 months in summer/autumn 2006 - never sold, now it's on for £219,950 (different EA) a mere 6 months later - not selling!

This one...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-152...=1&tr_t=buy

...was 6 weeks ago £225,000, now is below £200k with a different EA.

This one...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-694...=2&tr_t=buy

...only sold after being reduced by £5k.

...as did this one...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-644...=2&tr_t=buy

And take a look at these...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-143...=1&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-143...=1&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-143...=1&tr_t=buy

...reduced from over £150k...

and these...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-143...=4&tr_t=buy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-143...=4&tr_t=buy

...down from almost £140k in the last few weeks.

This 'apartment' development, completed in early 2006, has had many sat empty since then!

There are others too but can't be arsed to list them.

Finally, take a look at this :-

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-155...=1&tr_t=buy

...nice house and all that, but can't see anyone who lives here being able to afford it, and no-one from outside will wanna pay it when they see where it is lol !! It's overpriced.... I'll eat me hat if it sells for anywhere near that!

Edited by JoePublic
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A property I've been watching here in Carlton has dropped their price by £5,000 today.

It's a second house/doer-upper so I will keep watching and see what effect the next IR rise has.

I have no sympathy (for them, or anyone like 'em). They didn't 'want' a second house, they only did it to try and make a killing. Hope it kills them! :ph34r:

Edited by JoePublic
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I have no sympathy (for them, or anyone like 'em). They didn't 'want' a second house, they only did it to try and make a killing. Hope it kills them! :ph34r:

I'm with you there.

From the looks of it they've just watched a few of the property porn shows, bought a cheap house and thrown the magnolia paint around (plenty of photos of the trendy leather sofas and rugs with big dots on, but none of the bathroom).

It's close to where I live now, so of interest.

It's a pity that propertysnake site didn't come into being 6 months earlier. I've seen a couple of places on there that have dropped in price more then once!

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Prices in Fleming House, City Heights

Fleming House

Flat 16 Ockbrook Drive

£130,000

Flat

Leasehold

Not New Build

16-Jan-2006

Originally

£137,995

Flat

Leasehold

New Build

28-Nov-2003

Now for sale at £125 000

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-145...=1&tr_t=buy

Fleming House

Flat 8 Ockbrook Drive

£128,995

Flat

Leasehold

New Build

28-Nov-2003

Now for sale at £125 000

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-786...=1&tr_t=buy

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ALL NG1 postcodes. Starting from the some of the most desired down to the least, many of them are reducing prices!!

2 bed flat coming down:

20 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £234,000)

30 Mar 2007 Price changed from £234,000 to £225,000

11 Apr 2007 Price changed from £225,000 to £199,950

18 Apr 2007 Price changed from £199,950 to £199,500

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-132...=1&tr_t=buy

2 bed flat coming down:

19 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £174,950)

13 Apr 2007 Price changed from £174,950 to £154,950

21 May 2007 Price changed from £154,950 to £139,950

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.a...&pid=909234

2 bed flat coming down:

20 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £149,950)

18 Apr 2007 Price changed from £149,950 to £139,950

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-582...=1&tr_t=buy

2 bed flat coming down:

20 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £93,950)

30 Apr 2007 Price changed from £93,950 to £75,000

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-549...=1&tr_t=buy

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ALL NG1 postcodes. Starting from the some of the most desired down to the least, many of them are reducing prices!!

2 bed flat coming down:

20 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £234,000)

30 Mar 2007 Price changed from £234,000 to £225,000

11 Apr 2007 Price changed from £225,000 to £199,950

18 Apr 2007 Price changed from £199,950 to £199,500

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-132...=1&tr_t=buy

2 bed flat coming down:

19 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £174,950)

13 Apr 2007 Price changed from £174,950 to £154,950

21 May 2007 Price changed from £154,950 to £139,950

http://www.findaproperty.com/displayprop.a...&pid=909234

2 bed flat coming down:

20 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £149,950)

18 Apr 2007 Price changed from £149,950 to £139,950

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-582...=1&tr_t=buy

2 bed flat coming down:

20 Mar 2007 First day listed (price £93,950)

30 Apr 2007 Price changed from £93,950 to £75,000

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-549...=1&tr_t=buy

So that's 15%, 20%, 7% and 20% respectively.................

I was contacted about a possible job in Nottingham a few months ago, and had a look on rightmove to check out rental costs. I was astonished to find you could rent a decent flat for £300-£350pcm. I have been keeping an eye on the rental prices since, and I swear that rents are going down by the week. The starting price for a one bed flat seems to be £240-£250pcm, and appears to be dropping by about £10 each week as landlords fight to attract tenants.

Seems to me Nottingham has passed into complete meltdown.

Does anybody have any hard evidence on Nottingham rentals to confirm/deny my gut feelings? Can anybody compare like for like rents of properties they were renting two, three, four, five years ago with equivalent spec properties currently on rightmove?

I am interested because I think there is a national over supply of rental property that will drive down rents and bankrupt BTLs, and I think the only thing that is exceptional about Nottingham is that it is the first in a queue of cities and will start a trend that will go through, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Reading, and eventually London.

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So that's 15%, 20%, 7% and 20% respectively.................

I was contacted about a possible job in Nottingham a few months ago, and had a look on rightmove to check out rental costs. I was astonished to find you could rent a decent flat for £300-£350pcm. I have been keeping an eye on the rental prices since, and I swear that rents are going down by the week. The starting price for a one bed flat seems to be £240-£250pcm, and appears to be dropping by about £10 each week as landlords fight to attract tenants.

Seems to me Nottingham has passed into complete meltdown.

Does anybody have any hard evidence on Nottingham rentals to confirm/deny my gut feelings? Can anybody compare like for like rents of properties they were renting two, three, four, five years ago with equivalent spec properties currently on rightmove?

I am interested because I think there is a national over supply of rental property that will drive down rents and bankrupt BTLs, and I think the only thing that is exceptional about Nottingham is that it is the first in a queue of cities and will start a trend that will go through, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Reading, and eventually London.

What flats were you looking at for those prices?? Where are they - postcode?? They seem very low. (I rent a flat in Nottingham - 2 Bed) Just want to make sure you're looking to rent in the 'right' areas! Best not to get it 'wrong' in Nottingham!

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What flats were you looking at for those prices?? Where are they - postcode?? They seem very low. (I rent a flat in Nottingham - 2 Bed) Just want to make sure you're looking to rent in the 'right' areas! Best not to get it 'wrong' in Nottingham!

Nothing came of the job, the interest is just academic. Clearly average prices are higher are higher than £250, it was just a convenient bench mark.

If you look at say Leeds on Rightmove, the cheapest proper flat is over £300pcm. But I would expect Nottingham to be more expensive than Leeds. Certainly Nottingham house prices are higher than Leeds (at least for the moment). So yields in Nottingham must be far worse than Leeds - and I don't think they are good in Leeds. Looking across the range of properties to rent, Nottingham just seems much cheaper than other places.

My thesis is that the BTL property market is saturated in Nottingham and so rents are in free-fall. I was just wondering if there were any people in Nottingham how could actually compare rents now to rents a few years ago, on a like-for-like property basis, and confirm whether my gut feelings are right or wrong.

There has been a vigorous debate on this board as to whether rents will go down or up in a crash, but precious little evidence to support either camp.

What happens in Nottingham is interesting, because it seems to be leading the country. The North and the rest of the Midlands seems to be six months behind Nottingham, places like Reading and the Medway Towns a bit behind that.

So at the moment you are the official HPC trend-setter lab-rats.

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Guest wrongmove

kagiso - be careful when checking Nott'm rental prices on Rightmove. There seems to be loads of extremely cheap places, but these prices are invariably per room, not for the entire property. If you exclude house shares, there is not much under 300 pcm, and as pointed out above, some parts of Nott'm are less than des res. I pay 375 pcm for a one bed is a nice safe area but I think this would be hard to beat for a quiet area with good local amenities.

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kagiso - be careful when checking Nott'm rental prices on Rightmove. There seems to be loads of extremely cheap places, but these prices are invariably per room, not for the entire property. If you exclude house shares, there is not much under 300 pcm, and as pointed out above, some parts of Nott'm are less than des res. I pay 375 pcm for a one bed is a nice safe area but I think this would be hard to beat for a quiet area with good local amenities.

I was careful to exclude flatshares / pppm / student accom / studios, etc.

Clearly the following are bottom of the range, and I have no idea about areas:

£250

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-139...4&tr_t=rent

£250

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-594...4&tr_t=rent

£265

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-611...6&tr_t=rent

£275

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-515...6&tr_t=rent

Cheapest in Leeds, and believe me Leeds has its rough areas:

£300pcm

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-439...9&tr_t=rent

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I was careful to exclude flatshares / pppm / student accom / studios, etc.

Clearly the following are bottom of the range, and I have no idea about areas:

£250

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-139...4&tr_t=rent

£250

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-594...4&tr_t=rent

£265

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-611...6&tr_t=rent

£275

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-515...6&tr_t=rent

Cheapest in Leeds, and believe me Leeds has its rough areas:

£300pcm

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-439...9&tr_t=rent

The 4 properties that you have chosen are either near St Anns or Bulwell. Both very undesirable. In fact, St Anns is one of the homelands of one of the Nottingham gangs who rival WFG (Water Front Gang) from the Meadows.

TBH, they are not even worth looking at. Decent rentals in Nottingham are more in the region of £500-£650 for a 2 bed in a niceish area. Mine £560, but I negotiated that down from £650. I'm not knocking what you are trying to say, but your knowledge of the area is giving you a false representation of rentals in Nottingham.

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I'm not knocking what you are trying to say, but your knowledge of the area is giving you a false representation of rentals in Nottingham.

This is very true. Like all places Nottingham has it's fair share of sh1t-holes. If in doubt (anyone) shout up and I amongst others I'm sure will give you a 'yay' or a 'nay'. ;)

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i did think about nottingham to buy some BTL properties 2+ years ago as the university attracts a lot of students but i was put off by the amount of rental property on the market and the crime rate, does anyone know the rental market is like for professionals and students these???

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i did think about nottingham to buy some BTL properties 2+ years ago as the university attracts a lot of students but i was put off by the amount of rental property on the market and the crime rate, does anyone know the rental market is like for professionals and students these???

I know what its like.....its great..... theres loads of desperate landlords wanting you to be their tenant!

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If you look at say Leeds on Rightmove, the cheapest proper flat is over £300pcm. But I would expect Nottingham to be more expensive than Leeds. Certainly Nottingham house prices are higher than Leeds (at least for the moment). So yields in Nottingham must be far worse than Leeds - and I don't think they are good in Leeds. Looking across the range of properties to rent, Nottingham just seems much cheaper than other places.

My thesis is that the BTL property market is saturated in Nottingham and so rents are in free-fall. I was just wondering if there were any people in Nottingham how could actually compare rents now to rents a few years ago, on a like-for-like property basis, and confirm whether my gut feelings are right or wrong.

interesting - maybe nottingham, being closer to london, has seen more SE cash come its way speculatively as its closer, hence pushing the fundamentals even further out of line. Just a thought.

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