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Vince Cable - Hpc Policy Messiah?


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Following his comments on Abbey yesterday,

"“The risk is that more and more people will become overstretched. With interest rates, unemployment and council tax all rising it is likely that these irresponsible lending practices will lead to financial disaster for many people.”

See: http://www.vincentcable.org.uk/pages/Campa...chancellor.html

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Looks pretty decent!

I'd like to see :-

11. Property shows should not quote possible increase/decrease in values and should not be viewed to be

promoting speculation on property. FSA to have more controls over this type of financial advice.

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And more:

Irresponsible lending fuelling housing market - Cable

1 November 2006

Responding to the announcement that Abbey will now be prepared to lend five times either single or joint salary for mortgages, Liberal Democrat Shadow Chancellor, Vince Cable MP said:

"This announcement is very alarming. The risk is that more and more people will become overstretched.

"With interest rates, unemployment, and council tax all rising it is likely that these irresponsible lending practices will lead to financial disaster for many people.

"While the banks may claim they are trying to help first time buyers, in reality it will only stoke the housing market further, putting the dream of home ownership out of reach for many more people.

"A more active role is required for the Bank of England in asset markets, and serious thought must be given to including house prices in the official measure of inflation."

Link here

Is Vince Cable Charlie the Tramp?

Essential goods price rises hitting the poorest hard - Cable

17 October 2006

Responding to the announcement that inflation remained above the Bank of England's 2% target for the fifth successive month, Liberal Democrat Shadow Chancellor, Vince Cable MP said:

"Today's cost of living figures show the highest rise in essential prices for food, housing, fuel and light in the series since it began.

"Those on low incomes who spend the majority of their income on essential items are experiencing rates of inflation more than four times the average.

"Pensioners and hard-pressed families are really hit when their gas bill, their council tax and their rent or mortgage payments go up, leaving them with no spare cash. Falling prices on luxuries keep the headline figures down, but that is no comfort to people who can't afford them.

"With another rise in interest rates now widely expected in November it is going to be a tough winter for those surviving on low incomes. Gordon Brown must take his attention off Number 10 and back on to the economy."

See the whole list of press releases: here

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to be fair to Vince, he has been banging this particular drum for some time

Unlike most Lib Dems - I like Vince Cable.

The sad thing is that these days its good looks and general appeal that wins votes, and not substance or ideology or intelligence.

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Guest X-QUORK

As a former Lib Dem hater, I've been going through some radical changes of opinion on them over the last few months. As far as I can see they're the only party to speak out about the problems of lax credit and runaway HPI:

New measures needed to tackle the housing crisis - Stunnell

10 May 2006

Commenting on Ruth Kelly's record of opposing housing developments in her own constituency when she simultaneously wants to tackle the 'NIMBY' culture, Liberal Democrat Shadow ODPM Secretary, Andrew Stunell MP said:

"Ruth Kelly must learn that grand gestures won't solve the problem of hundreds of thousands of people with nowhere to live, and a generation priced out of the property ladder.

"We need new homes - but we must bring the 600,000 empty homes in Britain back into use, and make use of space above shops and in empty commercial buildings, where there's space for another 2 million homes."

Lending figures, Government must take responsibility - Cable

29 March 2004

Commenting on this morning’s figures on ‘lending to individuals’ from the Bank of England, which show an increase in mortgage lending, Vince Cable MP, Liberal Democrat Shadow Chancellor, said:

"This rise in lending comes on the back of an unsustainable house price bubble. Large numbers of people are gambling on the house price boom - a gamble they may regret if house prices start to fall or interest rates rise.

"The Bank of England is caught between dealing with the weaknesses in the economy and curbing the consumer boom.

"The Budget failed to take responsibility for the level of lending by banks. It is time the Government took action to protect ordinary homeowners against irresponsible lending."

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What claptrap.

He and his party are in favour of mass immigration.

How does that square with what he says about housing and mortgages? (debt)

All his pontificating about debt is nonsense in this context. The BOE sets the baserate - all the lenders do is think up ways of profiting by lending as much as they can using the BOE rate + a margin. Yes, the BOE rate is too low.

But we do not have a housing bubble - we have a new feudal system of society, of increasing numbers of tenants with decreasing living standards and increasingly insecure/flexible-'self employed' (lower) real wages who face a life of curtailed liberties (in just 16 months - reporting themsleves everytime they move or face a £2500 fine under the ID card legislation), and hugely wealthy landlords who largely benefit from very secure/unsackable local goverment jobs and pensions based on the taxes of the former, and there are also whole swathes of nonsense jobs created which also depend on this new feudal basis.

The only thing the BOE are watching for are wages rising - but we have unlimited immigration to lower workers bargaining power, from all the world - not just the EU.

As long as people are forced to compete with poor in the world who can live for food and breed, wages won't rise.

And, as the population of many parts of the world is growing strongly - Turkey, the middle east - million and millions born with very low incomes, with unlimited mass immigration a policy of 'growth' the old basis of society based on citizenship and freedoms, rising per person wealth, will be devoured.

Edited by brainclamp
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The Libs are the party of Tax and Spend, so in effect they will spend the money you might have wasted on a house, and spend it..............on their own houses that they might let you rent, if you are either Gay, Black, Illiterate, Disabled, or a Local Government worker.

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lol!

FYI I am not a 'bovver boy' and nor am zenophobic.

Anyone with any sense can see that importing limited numbers of people with rare skills from all around the world to try to cure cancer, or create a new jet engine by attracting them with pay and visas is a good idea, which will raise per person welath in the country as a whole and have no impact on the bargaining power of workers in the country, but allowing unlimited millions to work for food and rent means a massive change - of which you see some - not all - in house prices and rents.

As much as you want house prices to come down based on your claptrap about debt and houseprices, abusing anyone who points out that under a system of mass immigration the whole basis of society changes forever, will not make it happen. If mass immigration stopped, then yes - the debt would become real. But its definately not real now.

Edited by brainclamp
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Oh dear

Well frankly our resident bovvah boys if you think the conservatives (the party of capital and middle england) are going to do anything about it then you're sadly mistaken. Neither are they going to do much about appeasing your zenophobia either by the sound of it.

Zenophobia? Is that fear of Buddhists? :lol:

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Don't worry I can see that increasing demand without a corresponding increase in supply can lead to increasing prices

However increasing liquidity is of greater importance in increasing effective demand than immigration is.

Keynes concluded that the economy is driven by demand - effective demand - not by supply.

Effective Demand: people must have the money to buy what they need/desire for their demand intentions to be economically effective.

Effective Demand = the desire to buy something + the ability to buy it

In the context of the housing market, 'the ability to buy' is all important - and that means your ability to take on and service debt coupled with someone's willingness to lend it to you.

You only have to look at the scales of house price increases to see that the immigration argument doesn't stack up - although it can explain some increases, it can in no way come near to explaining all, due to the fact that it doesn't contribute that much to effective demand.

But I can see by your rants on ID cards that any hope that you can delineate different causes and effects in a sophisticated way seems doomed.

Are you seriously quoting Reagan without irony?

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I think he means Xanadu

Effective Demand: people must have the money to buy what they need/desire for their demand intentions to be economically effective.

Effective Demand = the desire to buy something + the ability to buy it

In the context of the housing market, 'the ability to buy' is all important - and that means your ability to take on and service debt coupled with someone's willingness to lend it to you.

You only have to look at the scales of house price increases to see that the immigration argument doesn't stack up - although it can explain some increases, it can in no way come near to explaining all, due to the fact that it doesn't contribute that much to effective demand.

Did Keynes ever mention that if you take a 1 pint container, you cannot fit 2 pints in it ?.

Or this just something new labour and the liberals are proposing?.

Yet another miracle ?.

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Zenophobia? Is that fear of Buddhists? :lol:

I Tao't it.

Brainclamp is ahead of his time. His thesis is interesting and is parroted by many others on this forum in different guises and in diluted form. He's joining the dots within a 2 millennia context. Who can deny that renting, being highly indebted and monitored from all angles are all forms of serfdom? Globalisation is a great leveler. Things will get worse before they get better for a lot of people.

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Brainclamp,

You are very consistent on this point and looking at the last year I think you may right. There is a lot fo evidence that the BOE are and have always been targeting wages and not inflation. If that is the case then monumental rises in debt and wage pressure is going to blow up in their faces to an extraordinary degree and slam-dunk the economy with it. Must be planned, I just cannot see how you could possibly imagine it ending otherwise.

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If someone can sell the concept that you can import 5 million people over three years, and it will not impact on the housing market then we should be putting them up for a Grammy.

If someone can sell the idea that net immigration in the last 3 years was 5 million then we should be... hang on. You read the Daily Mail don't you? <_<

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What claptrap.

He and his party are in favour of mass immigration.

You're just getting worked up because someone has pointed out that a political party other than the BNP might be prepared to tackle the house price crisis head on. You want people on this forum to vote for the BNP. That is the main reason you post here.

frugalista

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Brainclamp, Laurejon - shall we do this in numbers?

Imagine a country - let's call it Great Bittern.

This country has 59 people living in it.

One immigrant from Ethnonistan decides to move to Great Bittern - making the population 60.

The basic demand for houses has thus increased from 59 to 60.

However houses are bought with something called money, and this money has to be borrowed from the local bank called Yabbey National. Yabby National will lend these people 3.5 worth of the Great Bittern unit of money.

Effective demand is thus 60 x 3.5 - i.e. 210.

The immigrant contributes 3.5 to this effective demand, the rest of the population contributes 3.5 x 59 - that is 206.5. The original population has a much more powerful impact on effective demand than our one new immigrant.

Now Yabbey National makes an announcement that it is loosening its lending criteria and will now lend people 5 units of Great Bittern's money.

Effective demand is thus 60 x 5 - i.e 300 - an increase of effective demand by nearly a third.

The increase in effective demand caused by the immigrant is only 1.5 unit. But the impact of increased liquidity from the native population is 88.5!

Thus we can see that the availability of money to buy Great Bittern's housing stock is much more powerfully impacted by lending criteria rather than immigration.

This would be even more the case if you took into account the fact that the immigrant is likely to have a lower wage than the native population thus reducing the level of his effective demand.

Does this make sense to you? Or are you going to start talking about milk cartons?

Edited by Jimmy James
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I agree with Brainclamp if it doesnt correct then it will become polarised(more feudal like) More city bonuses would BTL. More politicians would BTL etc.. The people in the middle would just have to pay whatever taxes or be fined automatically by camera probably.

Thats how it feels This county certainly doesnt feel that free atm. Its one reason why I could never live in Australia. I know someone who just got a letter for tying the recycling bundle up wrongly FFS. They hide behind old wrecks and do the old speed camera malarkey. Its going the same way over here.

/rant

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The Libdems are very nimby'ish, they advocate things on the national level, like the building of windfarms, but their colleagues on the local level just oppose and do the diametrically opposite.

They're not to be trusted, none of the parties want to build more homes, this is just a fact, get used to it.

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