Girlfriend Wants To Leave Nursing

[munimula]

This is very sad. My girlfriend, a nurse actually loves doing her job but after all basic living costs there is very little money left each month. However she does earn £23K and here in Bournemouth there aren't many people earning even this kind of money. She believes that as £23K gets you so little that most other jobs are paying more and that she would be better off leaving nursing.

This really is a sad state that this country is in.

On the other side we know two couples including my sister who have bought houses this year, FTBs and in each case one of them is using their salary to pay just for the mortgage. A whole salary just to pay the mortgage - nothing else!!!

The under 30's and those that didn't buy pre-2002/3 are being enslaved in this country

[Realistbear]

Help is on the way so be of good cheer! Mr. Housepricecrash has left the North Pole aboard the sleigh of judgment and he is about to let the dark angel of Great Crash 2 loose to bring devastation and ruin to Mr. Brown's miraculous bubble.

I can hear Mr. Cameron baiting whoever is in charge (Johnny "Haggis" Reid? ) of the tattered ruins of NuLabour: "Whatever became of no more boom and bust!"

[sun n sea]

If you can hold on a bit.

I can see things changing in the market everyday- the bull$hit and spin is looking a bit threadbare these days.

If she is earning 23k she is doing OK for Bournemouth and East Dorset as a whole- like you I live round here and I know for a 24 carrat fact that 23k is above average in terms of wages.

The only thing keeping the market going at the moment is moneyed pratts from London moving on down for our "cheap" houses- if these people are of working age then low wages round here will impact them after the warm fuzzy glow of living here has worn off.

Look around town and there are hundreds of new build flats and BTL investments- most of which are struggling to sell. When interest rates start rising to counteract inflation and jobless figures keep climbing a lot of these places will be up for grabs- for a lot less than the daft prices now being "asked" (hoped) for.

Right now buying a first time buyer type property round here is sheer madness- there is NO value in this type of property and when the tide of "sentiment" goes back out a lot of folks will be caught in quicksand.

Hold tight and wait is my advice.

[crashmonitor]

This is very sad. My girlfriend, a nurse actually loves doing her job but after all basic living costs there is very little money left each month. However she does earn £23K and here in Bournemouth there aren't many people earning even this kind of money. She believes that as £23K gets you so little that most other jobs are paying more and that she would be better off leaving nursing.

This really is a sad state that this country is in.

On the other side we know two couples including my sister who have bought houses this year, FTBs and in each case one of them is using their salary to pay just for the mortgage. A whole salary just to pay the mortgage - nothing else!!!

The under 30's and those that didn't buy pre-2002/3 are being enslaved in this country

If her issues just about pay I'd tell her to stick with it.23K is above the National Medium Wage and the average pay in the profession at 30k smashes the medium and mean putting it in the upper quartile.Facter in the generous super-ann package only available to the Public Sector Workers and she should reconsider.

If her issue is about being underpaid for what she does thats another issue.A profession in the upper quartile of pay before considering pension aint bad.

[iamnumerate]

This is very sad. My girlfriend, a nurse actually loves doing her job but after all basic living costs there is very little money left each month. However she does earn £23K and here in Bournemouth there aren't many people earning even this kind of money. She believes that as £23K gets you so little that most other jobs are paying more and that she would be better off leaving nursing.

This really is a sad state that this country is in.

On the other side we know two couples including my sister who have bought houses this year, FTBs and in each case one of them is using their salary to pay just for the mortgage. A whole salary just to pay the mortgage - nothing else!!!

The under 30's and those that didn't buy pre-2002/3 are being enslaved in this country

Very true although I would like to point out that this is what most of them voted for (eg Lab, Lib, Con) at the last election.

It is amazing to think that 5 years you could buy a decent flat in London earning £23k and now you can not in Bournemouth.

[munimula]

If she is earning 23k she is doing OK for Bournemouth and East Dorset as a whole- like you I live round here and I know for a 24 carrat fact that 23k is above average in terms of wages.

We've just moved down from SW London (Teddington/Twickenham area) and considering how low wages are down here (£18K is good for a FTB) prices just don't make sense.

The starter 2-bed terraced home that we rent would market for £200K+ FFS

And things like haircuts are more expensive than SW London

[crashmonitor]

Very true although I would like to point out that this is what most of them voted for (eg Lab, Lib, Con) at the last election.

It is amazing to think that 5 years you could buy a decent flat in London earning £23k and now you can not in Bournemouth.

Yep the issue is not about the wage but the house prices.If a wage in a profession within the upper quartile aint goog enough ,what about the other three quarters of the population.

[munimula]

If her issues just about pay I'd tell her to stick with it.23K is above the National Medium Wage and the average pay in the profession at 30k smashes the medium and mean putting it in the upper quartile.Facter in the generous super-ann package only available to the Public Sector Workers and she should reconsider.

If her issue is about being underpaid for what she does thats another issue.A profession in the upper quartile of pay before considering pension aint bad.

There are two issues. Pay and work conditions.

Believe me after everything I hear - if someone close to me was in hospital I'd be in there 24/7 to make sure they are being looked after.

Nurses are so stretched. In London she had to look after 4-6 critically ill patients and had help from nurses assistants etc.

Where she is now she's expected to look after 8 patients completely on her own. These are patients that are bed ridden, just out of surgery etc. There isn't time to feed them and even some basic needs can't be met.

Her issue is mostly to do with pay though. After all costs, rent and bills being the highest there just isn't any money left to save or do much. As she said to me when she decided to do nursing and spend 3 years at uni and go into the career she didn't expect to be so hard up. I explained that it's basically the cost of housing now that is makins us all feel poorer.

Role on the bl**dy crash. And I won't be feeling sorry for anybody that loses their shirts in this one.

Very true although I would like to point out that this is what most of them voted for (eg Lab, Lib, Con) at the last election.

It is amazing to think that 5 years you could buy a decent flat in London earning £23k and now you can not in Bournemouth.

The problem is with the cost of living that on £23K you have nothing left to save to buy a house.

Stuck renting.

Edited October 23, 2006 by munimula

[steve99]

Sounds a bit short sighted to me, when things fall appart, and they will with absolute certainty, nursing will be a very comfy place to be, its a long time since we had a recession in this country and when they hit it bites hard, house prices this time will drop both in real terms and nominal terms to a much larger extent than in previous recessions due to the fact that they have gone up much further in real terms than ever before and debt stretched beyond comprehension. To move to other industries where the pay may appear better is a big risk, I would say, based on the fact that redundancy often becomes a last in /first out policy. Private/PLC companies on the way up are not a bad place to work, on the way down they are psychopathic (90's recession, my employer said 'its time we bought fear back into the workplace' and carried on to do that by having a redundancy of the month award just to keep the rest of us sh*tting ourselves) , The people to suffer will not be the under 30's who havent bought property but those who have bought in the last 5 years and get made redundant, this is what happend last time and the time before that. A lot of people on this board have never experienced 2 things, one is house prices going down when they are trying to sell and the other is trying ot get a job during a reccession, last time parents were paying employers cash under the tabe to take their kids on. Belive me if your under the age of 30 and have saved some money and are properly employed your big opportunity is not too far away.

[munimula]

On the subject of Bournemouth - my sister lived here for a while and couldn't believe how low wages were (compared to Bristol)

Just found this to illustrate - and advert for the same job for the same company. One in Southampton and one in Bournemouth;

Customer Services Representative Southampton £17,500.00 per annum 4th Oct 2006

Customer Services Representative Bournemouth £15,150.00 per annum 2nd Oct 2006

[MarkG]

Sounds a bit short sighted to me, when things fall appart, and they will with absolute certainty, nursing will be a very comfy place to be

Not if the NHS ship in cheap Eastern European nurses, or ship the patients to Poland.

Anyone who thinks medical jobs can't be outsourced is deluding themselves: they're a huge target once Brown has to start trying to balance the books, and obviously he won't be sacking any of the useless administrative employees that suck up so much of the money in the NHS.

[iamnumerate]

I explained that it's basically the cost of housing now that is makins us all feel poorer.

Stuck renting.

True, but that is because the UK population increases every year which most political parties support.

Role on the bl**dy crash. And I won't be feeling sorry for anybody that loses their shirts in this one.

The problem is with the cost of living that on £23K you have nothing left to save to buy a house.

Stuck renting.

Personally I don't think there will be one. Or if there is it won't crash to even 2000 / 2001 affordibility (see above)

The problem is with the cost of living that on £23K you have nothing left to save to buy a house.

Stuck renting.

Actually you can if you don't mind renting a room as opposed to a flat - of course you should not have to live like this but that is the UK today

[Fancypants]

obviously he won't be sacking any of the useless administrative employees that suck up so much of the money in the NHS.

how else could the government produce such a thick and conclusive dossier of statistics and intelligence that demonstrates the NHS is more efficient and effective than at any time in history?

[munimula]

True, but that is because the UK population increases every year which most political parties support.

The population has always gone up. The reason for high house prices is

low interest rates

banks relaxing lending criteria

not enough houses being built due to ridiculous planning laws i.e. protection of 'green' fields (aka monocultural farm land full of poisonous pesticides that none of us can use as it's privately owned)

Personally I don't think there will be one. Or if there is it won't crash to even 2000 / 2001 affordibility (see above)

it is the unknown. But everywhere I look now I see people squeezed to near bursting point. I don't think the end can be far away. And I'm a firm believer of sentiment driving markets. That's why house prices have kept rising - people believe that they always will. So what is to stop them going down when people believe that house prices are only going to fall?

Actually you can if you don't mind renting a room as opposed to a flat - of course you should not have to live like this but that is the UK today

I'm 30 and have only just moved into a place to share with my girlfriend. I've spent from uni until now sharing. I've even shared a 1-bed flat with a friend to save money. It's time to have a life.

Edited October 23, 2006 by munimula

[Killer Bunny]

This is very sad. My girlfriend, a nurse actually loves doing her job but after all basic living costs there is very little money left each month. However she does earn £23K and here in Bournemouth there aren't many people earning even this kind of money. She believes that as £23K gets you so little that most other jobs are paying more and that she would be better off leaving nursing.

This really is a sad state that this country is in.

On the other side we know two couples including my sister who have bought houses this year, FTBs and in each case one of them is using their salary to pay just for the mortgage. A whole salary just to pay the mortgage - nothing else!!!

The under 30's and those that didn't buy pre-2002/3 are being enslaved in this country

when the dislocation comes she'll be VERY sorry she left the government job with the guaranteed pension.

[munimula]

when the dislocation comes she'll be VERY sorry she left the government job with the guaranteed pension.

I don't think that she would leave the job but her feelings illustrate the situation faced by my generation.

That is - we expected a little better for ourselves. We were brought up in family sized homes (4-5 beds) with our parents and in both mine and my girlfriends case we are both much better educated than our parents and both of us work (only my dad did) and yet even 1-bed flats take up nearly all of your income.

My parents

Only dad worked.

Earned below average wage

At 26 bought a 5-bed family home

Had 4 kids

Myself + girlfriend

Both working full time

Earn above average wage

Aged 30 a 1-bed flat would take something like 40% of pay (repayment mortgage)

Kids - how do you afford them?

[MarkG]

Only dad worked.

Earned below average wage

At 26 bought a 5-bed family home

Watch out or the bulls will be here telling you that can't possibly have happened...

[brassfarthing]

"Only dad worked.

Earned below average wage

At 26 bought a 5-bed family home"

Watch out or the bulls will be here telling you that can't possibly have happened...

I don't doubt that it can have happened, but there are key facts missing, like which part of the country, how much the father earned, deposit, what sort of 5-bedroomed house etc.

Certainly in London or the SE, it hasn't been possible for a 26 year old on sub-average wages to buy a 5 bed house for a very long time. I also first bought when I was about that age, in the mid 80s, but in London. For 4 times my then income + partner's, we were able to buy a 1 bed flat.

What's really different these days is that the rest of the country seems to have almost caught up. When we visited friends in Manchester and Leeds we used to notice that we could have bought a massive townhouse, or a sizeable farmhouse with land in Yorkshire, for what we paid for the flat in London. For years it was like that. As recently as the late 90s you could pick up terraced houses in Leeds for 20-odd grand.

One of the big changes is people's desire to own property. When I was a kid, people who bought a house were seen as boring and conventional. It was like an admission that they'd joined the rat race. I used to feel sorry for people who bought a house while they were still in their mid-20s. When I got to that age myself, it was only the realisation that renting in London was costing almost as much as a mortgage that finally changed my mind. It was a practical choice. We paid the same but had security of tenure. Nothing really to do with investment potential, which is all relatively new. I still think it's a bit sad that people in their 20s drool over the property supplements. I understand why that is, but still....

[iamnumerate]

The population has always gone up. The reason for high house prices is

low interest rates

banks relaxing lending criteria

not enough houses being built due to ridiculous planning laws i.e. protection of 'green' fields (aka monocultural farm land full of poisonous pesticides that none of us can use as it's privately owned)

it is the unknown. But everywhere I look now I see people squeezed to near bursting point. I don't think the end can be far away. And I'm a firm believer of sentiment driving markets. That's why house prices have kept rising - people believe that they always will. So what is to stop them going down when people believe that house prices are only going to fall?

I'm 30 and have only just moved into a place to share with my girlfriend. I've spent from uni until now sharing. I've even shared a 1-bed flat with a friend to save money. It's time to have a life.

Actually it has gone up by more than usual since Labour came to power.

The reason why people think prices are going to rise is because we have an open door immigration policy, generous benefits particulary for people like refugees (I know many, so I know what we are talking about) and strong planning controls.

Sadly none of these are likely to change or perhaps fortunately for me because I have just bought.

I know what you mean about having a life and I empathise.

[crashmonitor]

I don't think that she would leave the job but her feelings illustrate the situation faced by my generation.

That is - we expected a little better for ourselves. We were brought up in family sized homes (4-5 beds) with our parents and in both mine and my girlfriends case we are both much better educated than our parents and both of us work (only my dad did) and yet even 1-bed flats take up nearly all of your income.

The one consolation with a disaffected workforce is the route to promotion clears quickly.In ten years time when shes a Sister on 40K(in todays money) ant the HPC has become reality-the 4/5 Bed detached will be yours.

[munimula]

"Only dad worked.

Earned below average wage

At 26 bought a 5-bed family home"

I don't doubt that it can have happened, but there are key facts missing, like which part of the country, how much the father earned, deposit, what sort of 5-bedroomed house etc.

The town was one in Devon. Negligible deposit.

He was 26, earned lets say approx 40% below UK average and bought a 5-bed house.

In the same town today a 1-bed flat is £140K. Average wage for the area would be around £15K-£18K for a 26 year old (still prob around 40% less than UK ave.)

So someone in my dad's position today needs a mortgage over 7 times their salary (based on £18K) just for a 1-bed flat.

Remember that my dad bought a 5-bed house!!! And that was probably around 3 X his salary.

That's how different things are now. Not a little bit different - A LOT different

Edited October 23, 2006 by munimula

[ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs]

Where she is now she's expected to look after 8 patients completely on her own. These are patients that are bed ridden, just out of surgery etc. There isn't time to feed them and even some basic needs can't be met.

What the hell did you expect moving from London to Bournmouth? Bournmouth is the departure lounge of England where all the old dears go to wait to leave for another life.

[munimula]

What the hell did you expect moving from London to Bournmouth? Bournmouth is the departure lounge of England where all the old dears go to wait to leave for another life.

the working conditions have got nothing to do with the location demographics.

Guys and St Thomas hospital in London is a trust hospital. Actually a very well off hospital. Conditions there are unlike most hospitals. Nurses are actually able to care for their patients.

The hospital where she works now is like most other hospitals. Staff, mainly nurses are grossly overstretched and as such can't give the care they would like to.

[laurejon]

This is very sad. My girlfriend, a nurse actually loves doing her job but after all basic living costs there is very little money left each month. However she does earn £23K and here in Bournemouth there aren't many people earning even this kind of money. She believes that as £23K gets you so little that most other jobs are paying more and that she would be better off leaving nursing.

At 23k she is earning a very very high wage, in fact she is not far off paying into a higher tax bracket. And that is on the public payroll. I would suggest she budgets more carefully and looks to spend less on luxuries and concentrate on saving at least 20% of salary as year as defined by the Government who are concerned people are not saving.

[ummabdullah]

Nursing is a great profession here in england..

she has plenty of opp. to become specialised since PCT's and hospital trust are looking to train nurses rather than doctors to perform surgeries.. supervise the care of ill patients with cardio problems, and best of all become chief executives. In fact, all the major players at a PCT usually have a nursing background. Very few doctors have traditionally taken on management roles within the NHS and therefore they have been squeezed out of any importance they once had a legitamate claim to..

so while 23k is not alot by todays standards.. the nursing proffession holds an unlimited amount of opportunity!

I would advise her to get more involved in nhs schemes to enhance a nurses career. And perhaps she can make 35k as a specialist nurse..... or 50k as a clinical governence manager or 120k as a chief exec one day..