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Public Sector Pension Debt 1 Trillion


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Reported in the Times today that the real Public Sector debt is 120% of GDP when including the one trillion unfunded pension liabilitiees of public sector workers.Lucky Public sector workers are being subsidised to the tune of £100 000 each by my reckoning to make up the shortfall of their contributions.6 million working 4 million retired divided by one trillion.

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Reported in the Times today that the real Public Sector debt is 120% of GDP when including the one trillion unfunded pension liabilitiees of public sector workers.Lucky Public sector workers are being subsidised to the tune of £100 000 each by my reckoning to make up the shortfall of their contributions.6 million working 4 million retired divided by one trillion.

A future government less beholden to the public sector will need to recompute each worker's pension entitlement on the basis of their actual contributions and apply market annuity rates. Those expecting free index-linked pensions are going to be disappointed - the country cannot afford to pay them, and future generations will see no reason to subsidise today's tossers.

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Another example of the IPOD generation subsidising the over 50s who controll 80% of the Nation's wealth.Some of that wealth being in public sector pensions which would cost up to a million pounds per pension if one were to try and purchase a superannuated pension on the open market with a Life Assurance Co.These products are hellishly expensive because of falling annuity rates.(about 30 times annual pension)

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I am in the LGPS as are most people in the public sector I would imagine, and we are told that collectively the LGPS is the largest pension fund in the UK worth billions of pounds. It is funded, that is as I understand although I do not claim to be an expert that the money is in there, not to be paid by future generations.

Articles like this in the Times, in my view are propaganda to try and justify the robbing of the pension funds

the suits would like to get away with. Just like the report by the CBI suggesting most people would like to see

the NHS privatised. Yeah of course, like the the school meals provision that now feed kids with 30p worth of crap a day and the cleaning of school hospitals that is so bad now, you are more likely to die of a superbug that you caught while in hospital than whatever you actually went in for.

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I am in the LGPS as are most people in the public sector I would imagine, and we are told that collectively the LGPS is the largest pension fund in the UK worth billions of pounds. It is funded, that is as I understand although I do not claim to be an expert that the money is in there, not to be paid by future generations.

Articles like this in the Times, in my view are propaganda to try and justify the robbing of the pension funds

the suits would like to get away with. Just like the report by the CBI suggesting most people would like to see

the NHS privatised. Yeah of course, like the the school meals provision that now feed kids with 30p worth of crap a day and the cleaning of school hospitals that is so bad now, you are more likely to die of a superbug that you caught while in hospital than whatever you actually went in for.

The pensions were funded at one time before the fall in investment returns and annuity rates.Pensions are twice as expensive to buy now than they were previously because gilt yields etc. have fallen.Many of us in the Private Sector have seen both the value of our funds plus the annuity we can buy collapse.but there is no Public money to bail us out.

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One reason Investment returns have collapsed is that money has been diverted from the Stock Market to Property.The FT100 has still not recovered to its Dec1999 6930 peak.Where as up to that point pension funds were solvent both public sector and private sector.

I recently left the public sector to do the exact same job in the private sector. My take home pay is now 60% higher.

the ONS now has public sector pay above private sector.EXCLUDING THE £100000PER CAPITA PENSION PERK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR.

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The pensions were funded at one time before the fall in investment returns and annuity rates.Pensions are twice as expensive to buy now than they were previously because gilt yields etc. have fallen.Many of us in the Private Sector have seen both the value of our funds plus the annuity we can buy collapse.but there is no Public money to bail us out.

We are told that the shortfall in funds is due to the pension holidays that employers took when the investment

returns were above expectations and now that they are below expectations it only follows then now they should put in more.

It is a disgrace what has been allowed to happen in the private sector with pensions, as with other things like casualisation and using cheap labour from abroad to drive down wages etc but that is due in my opinion to the private sector workers misplaced faith in market forces and the apathy in labour organisation.

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One reason Investment returns have collapsed is that money has been diverted from the Stock Market to Property.The FT100 has still not recovered to its Dec1999 6930 peak.Where as up to that point pension funds were solvent both public sector and private sector.

the ONS now has public sector pay above private sector.EXCLUDING THE £100000PER CAPITA PENSION PERK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR.

You would have thought the smart guys running pension funds with their multi-million pound bonuses would have seen what was going on and started investing in property funds.

But no, that would require using a bit of the old grey matter.

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I am in the LGPS as are most people in the public sector I would imagine, and we are told that collectively the LGPS is the largest pension fund in the UK worth billions of pounds. It is funded, that is as I understand although I do not claim to be an expert that the money is in there, not to be paid by future generations.

Articles like this in the Times, in my view are propaganda to try and justify the robbing of the pension funds

the suits would like to get away with. Just like the report by the CBI suggesting most people would like to see

the NHS privatised. Yeah of course, like the the school meals provision that now feed kids with 30p worth of crap a day and the cleaning of school hospitals that is so bad now, you are more likely to die of a superbug that you caught while in hospital than whatever you actually went in for.

Here's a few personal hospital anecdotes:

1. Mrs bottletop works in a hospital research lab. The toilets there are the most disgusting places ever and she's not surprised people get ill in hospital considering the state of the facilities and how infrequently they're cleaned. Complaints are made, f*** all's done.

2. Her sister lives in a street in another town with a woman who discharged herself from hospital early after being threatened and shoved by the cleaners for complaining because the toilets were so unclean. She complained to local rag and (surprise,surprise) more cleaners were taken on.

3. Another of mrs b's friends works in radiology at a newly opened midlands hospital. The design of the building is so poor that corpses go down in the lift to the morgue then food is ferried back up to the wards. I dunno whether this is accepted practice but it certainly sounds nasty. Also, the toilets in radiology often "blow back" discharging radioactive wee into the room.

Edited by bottletop
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I recently left the public sector to do the exact same job in the private sector. My take home pay is now 60% higher.

Why in on earth is the public sector doing private sector jobs? As for salaries, the public services as a body are now much more highly paid than the private sector (I will look for the link).

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I have said this before on here.

My mum worked as a cleaner in a local hospital 10 years ago, she had a few wards to do, all was very organised and efficient and

the place was clean as a whistle.

To cut costs it was decided to get a private company in to do the cleaning.

She was told to re apply for her job, only half the cleaners were taken back on at lower pay and conditions.

Which meant twice the work each. Cleaning materials where cut right back.

The result was obvious, dirty hospital.

I heard on the radio the other day the hospital in question (Kettering General) is still one of the worst

hospitals in the country for this superbug, as has just had a ward qurantined off it is so bad.

It never recovered from the decision to privatise the cleaning, which apart from anything else has been

a false economy to say the least.

Now I have heard that it has along with Northampton Hospital applied for Foundation Trust status

which is just the first stage of privatisation where more services can be privatised in the same way

and assets like land can be sold off.

We are heading for a health service like that in America where only those that can afford it will get treatment.

The welfare state that was fought for and won as a concession to capitalism for working people, is being

clawed back piece by piece and people are too busy worrying about some twit being killed by a stingray

or crashing a car at 300 miles a hour to notice.

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I am in the LGPS as are most people in the public sector I would imagine, and we are told that collectively the LGPS is the largest pension fund in the UK worth billions of pounds. It is funded, that is as I understand although I do not claim to be an expert that the money is in there, not to be paid by future generations.

Articles like this in the Times, in my view are propaganda to try and justify the robbing of the pension funds

the suits would like to get away with. Just like the report by the CBI suggesting most people would like to see

the NHS privatised. Yeah of course, like the the school meals provision that now feed kids with 30p worth of crap a day and the cleaning of school hospitals that is so bad now, you are more likely to die of a superbug that you caught while in hospital than whatever you actually went in for.

I hate to rain on the parade pal,but the initial investments were all about building the infrastructure.The rest has been squandered and current generations have to bail out the older ones.

some of this has to do with demographics also,who would have thought that the baby boomers wouldn't produce enough kids to keep it all going....the young DO have it tough these days,and pay for a lot of what the older generation take for granted.The BTL don't see it either,they are so out for themselves that they haven't realised they beget what they beget.

should some calamity like bird flu strike,the youngsters will be so pissed off that they will happily let the old ones go without medicine to get hold of a place to live...tough luck but it's happening!

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This is unusual. Average public sector pay is now higher than average private sector pay, even before you consider pensions.

Aaaah, there's that old 'average' word again. I wish people would look up what it actually means and decide if the 'average' is actually an appropriate measure to use. Have you seen the pay rises doctors have had over the past few years? I would say the figures are being skewed from the top end, whilst the typical public sector workers have had long overdue pay increases that bring them more in line with their private sector counterparts (about 10% difference in my occupation). I don't see why public sector pensions are such an issue (well I wouldn't would I :D ) it's not like there is only a small cross-section of the population allowed to work in the public sector is it?

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I have said this before on here.

My mum worked as a cleaner in a local hospital 10 years ago, she had a few wards to do, all was very organised and efficient and

the place was clean as a whistle.

To cut costs it was decided to get a private company in to do the cleaning.

She was told to re apply for her job, only half the cleaners were taken back on at lower pay and conditions.

Which meant twice the work each. Cleaning materials where cut right back.

The result was obvious, dirty hospital.

I heard on the radio the other day the hospital in question (Kettering General) is still one of the worst

hospitals in the country for this superbug, as has just had a ward qurantined off it is so bad.

It never recovered from the decision to privatise the cleaning, which apart from anything else has been

a false economy to say the least.

Now I have heard that it has along with Northampton Hospital applied for Foundation Trust status

which is just the first stage of privatisation where more services can be privatised in the same way

and assets like land can be sold off.

We are heading for a health service like that in America where only those that can afford it will get treatment.

The welfare state that was fought for and won as a concession to capitalism for working people, is being

clawed back piece by piece and people are too busy worrying about some twit being killed by a stingray

or crashing a car at 300 miles a hour to notice.

It is jobs like hospital cleaners who are really getting the worst of everything under this government. Low cost labour is being brought from abroad to undercut labour costs. Meanwhile the administering are giving themselves massive and undeserved pay rises (see tax abuser of the week)

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A future government less beholden to the public sector will need to recompute each worker's pension entitlement on the basis of their actual contributions and apply market annuity rates. Those expecting free index-linked pensions are going to be disappointed - the country cannot afford to pay them, and future generations will see no reason to subsidise today's tossers.

I'm a private sector worker, infact i work for myself, but I don't agree that the public sector should have there pension entitlement changed. Billions have been wasted on a two wars which still remain far from being resolved and billions of aid is pumped into the world bank with little affect on third world poverty. Plus government wastes billions on charters,ads and managers to promote change but no money is physically available to pay for the actual work. The poor public sector is now being financed by PFI at enormous cost to the tax payer, they might aswell of borrowed the money from a loan shark. Lots of the countries rich list are getting very rich from all this change and we expect make the poorest pay via pension cuts.

It's about time the British worker stood together and resisted some of the changes that are taking place, rather than blame each other. Maybe then you might get housing at reasonable prices.

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I don't think it will be long before this government (under pressure from large institutional investment corporations) introduces compusory pension contributions. The legislation is likely to preclude any rights to limit losses on the stock market. It's a fund managers dream - a bottomless pit of money to squander on the casino stock market; the likely outcome is that the rich continue to get richer as the poor subsidise them through ever increasing tax burdens and state sanctioned theft.

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I don't think it will be long before this government (under pressure from large institutional investment corporations) introduces compusory pension contributions. The legislation is likely to preclude any rights to limit losses on the stock market. It's a fund managers dream - a bottomless pit of money to squander on the casino stock market; the likely outcome is that the rich continue to get richer as the poor subsidise them through ever increasing tax burdens and state sanctioned theft.

Couldn't agree more, but the average bod doesn't see what is really going on and believes the trashy headlines.

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Guest mattsta1964

I don't think it will be long before this government (under pressure from large institutional investment corporations) introduces compusory pension contributions. The legislation is likely to preclude any rights to limit losses on the stock market. It's a fund managers dream - a bottomless pit of money to squander on the casino stock market; the likely outcome is that the rich continue to get richer as the poor subsidise them through ever increasing tax burdens and state sanctioned theft.

But the problem is, the combination of making compulsory pension contributions AND having to fund the armour plated, silver lined, index linked pensions of all the bureaucrats and public service workers will totally wipe out everyones' spending power. Nobody will have ANY disposable income. The honey pot is already empty. Gordster is having to borrow billions to pay the pensions of those retiring today so where the fekk will the money come from in another 20 years time? Jaysus! It's bad enough already being a middle aged person with no pension provision but just consider the plight of the youngsters graduating from university and looking for their first job. They are 15-20K in debt EVEN before they have a job. They have no chance of ever owning their own home. Their spending power is non-existent without going further into debt, and you're saying the government will make future generations make compulsory pension contributions. I see the logic in what you are saying but actually, I don't think it's possible.

A successful pension is dependent on real sustainable economic growth, just like house prices are. I think it is more likely we will see pensions disappear altogether. There wont be sufficient REAL economic growth (By REAL I mean economic growth generated by creativity,hard work, enterprise, NOT borrowed money) to fund the kind of pension schemes we are accustomed to. The death of the final salary pension scheme is just a taste of things to come.

There are going to be an awful lot of very disgruntled public service employees in 10-20 years who have been promised index linked pensions which the country simply cannot afford to pay. There are gonna be a lot of very very angry pi*sed off people!

People who wish to provide for themselves in retirement will have to be much more savvy and take much more personal responsibility for their own future. The kind of crappy undemocratic slimeballs we have for politicians in this country are not a safe pair of hands to entrust your future in. People will have to learn to take responsibility for these things themselves......and they will have to start early!

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Guest mattsta1964

The welfare state that was fought for and won as a concession to capitalism for working people, is being

clawed back piece by piece and people are too busy worrying about some twit being killed by a stingray

or crashing a car at 300 miles a hour to notice.

Or football managers taking bungs

Yeah. Well said

NuLabour have mortgaged the future of the NHS with PFI contracts. It will be a catastrophe.

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But the problem is, the combination of making compulsory pension contributions AND having to fund the armour plated, silver lined, index linked pensions of all the bureaucrats and public service workers will totally wipe out everyones' spending power. Nobody will have ANY disposable income. The honey pot is already empty. Gordster is having to borrow billions to pay the pensions of those retiring today so where the fekk will the money come from in another 20 years time? Jaysus! It's bad enough already being a middle aged person with no pension provision but just consider the plight of the youngsters graduating from university and looking for their first job. They are 15-20K in debt EVEN before they have a job. They have no chance of ever owning their own home. Their spending power is non-existent without going further into debt, and you're saying the government will make future generations make compulsory pension contributions. I see the logic in what you are saying but actually, I don't think it's possible.

A successful pension is dependent on real sustainable economic growth, just like house prices are. I think it is more likely we will see pensions disappear altogether. There wont be sufficient REAL economic growth (By REAL I mean economic growth generated by creativity,hard work, enterprise, NOT borrowed money) to fund the kind of pension schemes we are accustomed to. The death of the final salary pension scheme is just a taste of things to come.

There are going to be an awful lot of very disgruntled public service employees in 10-20 years who have been promised index linked pensions which the country simply cannot afford to pay. There are gonna be a lot of very very angry pi*sed off people!

People who wish to provide for themselves in retirement will have to be much more savvy and take much more personal responsibility for their own future. The kind of crappy undemocratic slimeballs we have for politicians in this country are not a safe pair of hands to entrust your future in. People will have to learn to take responsibility for these things themselves......and they will have to start early!

I think the Government will have to honour the superannuation contracts trouble is by 2045 the Times reckons the shortfall in contributions will cost the tax payer about 90 billionpounds per year (in today's money)or 7% of GDP:about the same cost as the NHS.

Public Sector workers are living in cloud cuckoo land they are ,for the most part ,financially illiterate and do not realise the typical superannuation package of a policeman or fireman retiring in his fifties costs about half a million if purchased on the open market from a Life Assurancae Co.Obviously both the Council and Individual have made insufficient contributions hence the TRILLION DEFECIT.

One argument put forward on this thread is that these people deserve a good pension.Well so does the builder with shattered knee caps and asbestos in his lungs.Even if he had invested all his profits in a pension(were it possible ,which it isn't) he would still not be able to buy one of these gold plated pension packages.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST TIMEBOMB FACING THE COUNTRY.

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I agree, the times we are now living in are a turning point away from the golden era of cushy retirements for the average worker who's made contributions or been lucky enough to have signed up to a generous occupational pension. The future is indicating that the first wave of people who've already realised that the demise of social security past retirement has begun and are turning to morally questionable practices such as BTL in order to saddle the burden of their old age on some unsuspecting youngster. The government won't raise income tax sufficiently to bridge the gap so they are taking it into their own hands - only the social consequences of this are even more profound than if the government had just had the balls to raise taxes in the first place.

I see that perhaps the most important thing that any of us possess in this changing world is our health. If we are strong and healthy, we are more likely to have the capacity to work until we are quite old. This is going to be the reality for millions in the future. It's a grim prospect but some people actually like having something to do when they are old. The difference here of course is that the things they do will be for somebody else and towards their own survival.

Bring on voluntary euthanasia.

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  • 442 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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