Marina Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Crikey! What's happening? A few people who sound intelligent and rational AGREE with me. Got to go and lie down. Does the article give any indication of when this sell off will start (presumably people nearing retirement shouldn't need residential care for at least 10 years)? It will start on the 17th May 2024 apparently. So just under 18 years to go. Can you wait that long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugged bunny Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Just as I said above. And of course this is more easy to do now that the housing ladder rungs are spaced widely apart Yes, though the difficulty of the rungs being spaced widely apart would be finding a buyer, so I suspect that some large home owners would have to convert their house into two maisonettes/flats (or creating integral Granny flat) in order to achieve 'market value' - or to market the house specifically to investors who were looking for large properties to convert. In fact, conversion would create a bigger profit and feed increasing demand for smaller homes. Crikey! What's happening? A few people who sound intelligent and rational AGREE with me. Got to go and lie down. Edited September 20, 2006 by bugged bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PropertyGuru Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Crikey! What's happening? A few people who sound intelligent and rational AGREE with me. Got to go and lie down. It will start on the 17th May 2024 apparently. So just under 18 years to go. Can you wait that long? can you all stop riling the pmtavenger please? It isn't big, and it isn't clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickingIt Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I get alot of people who are 'into' BTL come to me for advice, its hitting me like a wave. The real problem is that these people are by the large amateurs. Not builders etc buying crap and doing them up cheap (they seem to have all but disappeared), just people clinging onto the market will rise etc, and many of these people have finances that are not in great shape. The 'quality' of the BTL brigade is now that poor (very poor and seems to be getting worse) from what I have seen that it just cannot carry on and unwind as stated with IR, unemployment and speculative bombing. I cannot believe low pension shortfalls will cause a sell of in houses, impact yes, but major sell off no way, as Silver Wolf states its been happening for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 . If NuLabour finish off the NHS there will be BIG private medical bills to pay for. Most have mewed a lot also so the debt free life is a dream for all but a tiny minority--mostly the last of the WW2 generation. We have to face the fact that the UK economy is one giant debt bubble and when it explodes its going to hurt everyone in one way or another. ....bring it on!!!! Public services are feckin inefficient anyway. tried to get to the council tax office last week,and they work 9- 4.30 mon-fri. they really need to get with the program and work extended hours like the rest of society. Some of us don't have the luxury of 9-5.My clients pay me to get a job done on time and I have deadlines to meet.It demands a bit of flexibility...sometimes working 7 days a week.I won't down tools at 4.30 because of protocol.If I worked like that I'd be jobless in no time!!!!! the sooner they take the axe to this lot the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie The Tramp Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 If NuLabour finish off the NHS there will be BIG private medical bills to pay for. Most have mewed a lot also so the debt free life is a dream for all but a tiny minority--mostly the last of the WW2 generation. Even with the NHS you will be amazed how many are now going private. On a visit to a BUPA and Nuffield Hospital the Reception Area was bursting with them. In my area there is one of the largest population of Pensioners and they are not short of a few bob. Does the article give any indication of when this sell off will start (presumably people nearing retirement shouldn't need residential care for at least 10 years)? So we are all expected to be suffering from Senile Dementia (spelling) at 75. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugged bunny Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) I cannot believe low pension shortfalls will cause a sell of in houses, impact yes, but major sell off no way, as Silver Wolf states its been happening for years. It won't even take pension shortfalls IMO. Couples approaching old age won't want to stay in a large house with huge maintenance and heating costs, when they can downsize to something more suitable. Yes, this has been happening for years, and it's going to accelerate because of the baby boom. The boomers have a fantastic opportunity to cash in due to historically high HPs. They include the wealthiest and fittest group of over 50s there has been since the Victorian age, or perhaps ever. They can travel the world or lay back in sunnier climes for free, funded by the people renting their BTLs. Edited September 20, 2006 by bugged bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englebert Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 and the liberals are planning to cut pension tax relief for higher earners as well! i'm not sure someone earning £36k per annum feels like they are a higher earner these days Believe me, someone on £36k p.a isn't what I would categorise as being poor..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCash Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 It won't even take pension shortfalls IMO. Couples approaching old age won't want to stay in a large house with huge maintenance and heating costs, when they can downsize to something more suitable. Yes, this has been happening for years, and it's going to accelerate because of the baby boom. The boomers have a fantastic opportunity to cash in due to historically high HPs. They include the wealthiest and fittest group of over 50s there has been since the Victorian age, or perhaps ever. They can travel the world or lay back in sunnier climes for free, funded by the people renting their BTLs. Why don't they just stick the money in the bank and get a higher return? Oh, sorry, HPI and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugged bunny Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Why don't they just stick the money in the bank and get a higher return? Oh, sorry, HPI and all that. Because they can get a much better return than sticking the money in the bank, even with zero HPI. Even assuming zero rent inflation too. Don't forget, they pay in cash - there's no mortgage interest to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCash Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Because they can get a much better return than sticking the money in the bank, even with zero HPI. Even assuming zero rent inflation too. Don't forget, they pay in cash - there's no mortgage interest to pay. I don't agree, but even if BTL is slightly higher its hardly worth the risk, the voids, the hassle, especially when you've retired. I just think your analysis assumes too much. You can never predict what will come into fashion next or how the economy will go. You can predict the climate, but not the weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Believe me, someone on £36k p.a isn't what I would categorise as being poor..... Well, they sure as ****** ain't rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugged bunny Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I don't agree, but even if BTL is slightly higher its hardly worth the risk, the voids, the hassle, especially when you've retired. I just think your analysis assumes too much. You can never predict what will come into fashion next or how the economy will go. You can predict the climate, but not the weather. Of course I've factored in all the obvious costs like the voids, buildings insurance and maintenance. And please don't mention rip-off newbuild exec apartments. If you hadn't noticed, those are not the only properties that the BTLers are hoovering up. Everyone can see that the climate's changing, and there's plenty of disagreement as to how it will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith.G Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Many of these clown BTLs of recent years are going to be hit by a double whammy. They stopped contributing into pensions and other investments to fund highly leveraged BTL, they will be forced out of BTL with large debts in many cases with no pensions/investments in reserve in the near future. One almost feels sorry for them... Some may have mis-planned but people who got into BTL in 2003 or before should be doing ok - especially those who started in the late 90's or before that These people show the traits of sensible investors who are not content to trust pensions alone and the report is proving them right It's preferable to have some additional pension investment as it's tax efficient and along with property and the right level of personal insurances seems about as good as you can get It's a shame some people have not planned sufficiently for their futures believing the state pension would go further than it will in reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 No, RB has made a pertinent point .......Somone with modest savings and pension will try to downsize as HPs are so high that even a modest downsizing would realise people £100k in most parts of the country.... You see £100k is an awful lot of money in terms of day-to-day spending on groceries/holidays etc but bugger all when it comes to housing...... (maybe going from 4 bed detached to 3 bed semi would realise you £100k in averagely-priced area.)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...npensions20.xml Pensions plummet two thirds in 10 years By Rosie Murray-West and Alison Steed (Filed: 20/09/2006) Pension returns have plummeted over the past decade, with individuals retiring on a third of the money received by their counterparts 10 years ago, new figures showed yesterday. Today's retirees are being hit with a double whammy of lower stock market returns and falling annuity rates, experts said. This is the reality of Nu Labour........ a delayed time bomb of huge, unimaginable proportions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith.G Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 This is the reality of Nu Labour........ a delayed time bomb of huge, unimaginable proportions... Oh well.. If the old have less to spend and there are more of them then that should reduce inflationary pressure = relatively low interest rates However many finding it tough may leave the country if they see a better option abroad My parents were both retired and moved to the Irish Republic in 1993 - It had a slower pace of life and they were in a healthier location in the countryside near to the coast. Also the crime rate was low. To them it was reminiscent of how England used to be in the 1950's However things have changed during recent years - The crime rate has increased they have all the drug related problems the same as over here. Also they are getting Polish immigrants due to their membership of the EU.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve99 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 i'm not sure someone earning £36k per annum feels like they are a higher earner these daysThey are a higher earner, the median wage is about £18.500 the average is about £26K so doing some sums you can see that house prices are well out of order, and I suspect that as per this thread, many will be expecting to sell up to retire but only those doing now will do ok before the next ressesion, in the future it wont work, who would be able to buy from them? The overall problem is that too much cheaply borrowed and printed money is chasing too few productive assets, hence the return is historicaly low, ie no returns on pension fund via share market, and BTL is in a similar situation, only generating a net income of about 4%. All anyone has done for the last 10yrs or so is speculate on asset price inflation, not genuine return on capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Earning anything less than £36k per annum for a graduate under 30 with student loan debts would be seen as a poor wage to be honest - and certainly prove impossible to buy property with without the usual hand me downs from the wealthier parents out there. I don't know anyone in my peer group (who have a diverse range of careers and are all circa 26) who earn less than 36k per annum. We lose so much in tax, NI, student loan repayments, bank debts etc etc that the idea of being also able to pay a mortgage would be way out of reach at present unless we earnt more. Puts hell of a lot of pressure on us all to fly up the career ladder / hit targets / make money on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yeahbutnocrash Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 No, RB has made a pertinent point .......Somone with modest savings and pension will try to downsize as HPs are so high that even a modest downsizing would realise people £100k in most parts of the country.... You see £100k is an awful lot of money in terms of day-to-day spending on groceries/holidays etc but bugger all when it comes to housing...... (maybe going from 4 bed detached to 3 bed semi would realise you £100k in averagely-priced area.)... Yeah but there are also equity release schemes which don't involve selling the property Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie The Tramp Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Yeah but there are also equity release schemes which don't involve selling the property They call them lifetime mortgages. Interest accumulates and when the owner dies the house is sold, the debt repaid, and any remainder goes to the deceased`s estate. The best way of withdrawing equity IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpw Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 (edited) I dont see what the probelm is? If todays pensioners can't affford tellys, holidays, luxury goods and health care then the working youth of the UK had better start paying more tax and buy their houses at inflated prices. Pensioners didnt fight two world wars with their teeth and bare hands for nothing it was to ensure there were enough cash cows following on behind to feather bed their nests. So dont worry, if your approaching retirement then spend, spend, spend and tax, tax, tax............. ;-) Edited September 21, 2006 by bpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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