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I HAVN’T GOT A PROBLEM WITH THEM (not all of them anyway)

Or landlords in general for that matter.

If someone has saved a bit of money and has the ability to go out and buy some property for cash – then rents it out to someone who is less affluent than he is for a profit.

THAT’S FINE BY ME.

If someone who perhaps hasn’t accumulated enough cash to buy a house outright, and needs a mortgage – but still wants to better themselves, if they are prepared to study the housing market over the years, to buy at the right time for the right money, do their calculations and realize that because their buying at the right time at the right money – they can’t go wrong.

THAT’S FINE BY ME TOO.

BUT….. THESE CRANKS who have been buying in an over inflated bubble for the last 2 or 3 years or so – and taking a monthly loss along the way have got right up my nose.

IDIOTS did they not do maths at school.

rant done.

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i d do the same and BTL. [if i had the cash] If i realised if my investment in say my premium bonds werent doing anything, but ii saw £30K flats had quadupled in value in the space of a few years, i d know what i d do

It just takes sentiment to change, and money will be taken out of property once again.

Shame property markets take years to cycle

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Guest X-QUORK

There will always be a need for rented accommodation as it offers flexibility and, under present market conditions, value for money. Quite honestly, us STRs would be a bit buggered without it!

I don't think there's anything inherently evil about becoming a landlord, but in a country with limited space and a growing population, larger property portfolios should be taxed quite heavily IMO, more than just the income tax.

Edited by X-QUORK

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BTLs on one extreme are parasites to the housing market, leveraging themselves with equity and lapse lending to drive up house prices at the bottom rung of the ladder, causing a social underclass of renters who can't afford, since housing stock has been saturated by those btl'er buying properties en masse to secure their future wealth, pension or what have you. On the other hand, who can resent someone who you describe who has worked hard, have surplus cash, and wish to invest it and see some growth on that investment. I don't have a problem with that. Multiple home ownership is part of the problem, fuelled by greed, where houses have merely become investment vehicles and stopped becoming homes. There's no morality in the situation, people don't think of the generation that are just starting their lives now, it's each for their own. My personal experience of btl'ers are the typical people you see on those propperty ladder programmes. When there is a housing shortgage, i think it is wrong that people can own multiple homes (let's say 3 or more). And then profit from the misery of priced out first-time buyers who do work harder in a high-cost of living economy - and have every right and opportunity to a home that their predecessors have had. But if we think about it, or try to justify to ourselves that BTLers aren't bad people, my uncle is a btl'er, idon't hate him or despise him, the problem is epidemic of a sheeple mindset and faulting pensions. IT's just an opportunity, and we think to oursevles we may of very well done that ourselves had the opportunity arisen. But the bottom line is, Buy-to-letters have little moral value, they believe they're doing a service, they feel rich by pricing young people out of homes. I really feel good in life to know that I would never be a landlord, nor buy property and profit on renting it back to the people that can't afford it. In summary, BTLers are selfish, greedy. A bit like most landlords to be fair. I'm sure there are professional landlords out there who are good and honest etc, but it's very hard now, because everyman and his dog is a landlord these days. BTLers should have legislation put in place to kerb their greed.

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It depends on the house they are BTL. They can as many 3 bed terraces in Chorley as they like to rent out to DHSS tennants, like wise with 2 bed flats. It's the ones that buy first time buyer 3 bed semi's I object to. Although really how many of those are there ?

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It depends on the house they are BTL. They can as many 3 bed terraces in Chorley as they like to rent out to DHSS tennants, like wise with 2 bed flats. It's the ones that buy first time buyer 3 bed semi's I object to. Although really how many of those are there ?

by looking at the number of responses to this thread, i bet most people on here are BTLers. Other than the first-time-buyers that is.

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I'm not a buy to letter, although not a first time buyer either, we have had a house and having experienced the joy of a mortgage I don't know why so many people hate renting, sure it can be a pain but having to find money you don't have for repairs is equally annoying.

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by looking at the number of responses to this thread, i bet most people on here are BTLers. Other than the first-time-buyers that is.

I don't think there is any point in blaming individuals who act in their own (alleged) economic self interest. There is no morality in business. If you see £20 lying on the ground, you might as well pick it up yourself because you can be damn sure the next guy along will pick it up if you leave it.

Markets (ALL markets) require regulation to function in a manner that is for the common good. Housing is at the moment a very unregulated market. There needs to be some protection of people's access to reasonably priced, good quality accomodation. It is hard to argue that this would not be for the greater good.

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I HAVN’T GOT A PROBLEM WITH THEM (not all of them anyway)

Or landlords in general for that matter.

If someone has saved a bit of money and has the ability to go out and buy some property for cash – then rents it out to someone who is less affluent than he is for a profit.

THAT’S FINE BY ME.

If someone who perhaps hasn’t accumulated enough cash to buy a house outright, and needs a mortgage – but still wants to better themselves, if they are prepared to study the housing market over the years, to buy at the right time for the right money, do their calculations and realize that because their buying at the right time at the right money – they can’t go wrong.

THAT’S FINE BY ME TOO.

BUT….. THESE CRANKS who have been buying in an over inflated bubble for the last 2 or 3 years or so – and taking a monthly loss along the way have got right up my nose.

IDIOTS did they not do maths at school.

rant done.

Buying 10 years ago took no studying of the market, which isn't what most BTLs will have you believe

By buying then and all of a sudden seeing themselves sitting on massive equity was a pure fluke, nothing more, they're amateur nobodies. I have one at work who thinks he's Richard Branson because he made a few bob being in the right place at the right time, and bought 2 more properties to let out "it wasn't an accident" he says. He now spends his time at work doing landlord tasks rather than his actual job, and making a poor old tenant like me feel like scum, posturing over whether my landlord knows I have a cat, telling me he can increase the rent and kick me out, etc, etc. Like little effing jobsworths, seeing what I want to be my home as nothing more than an investment to finance another conservatory or holiday

Those that were allowed to take advantage of the housing situation priced out an entire generation, but it was as much the fault of the government as them

I'll never be a BTL apologist

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The lack of regulation is to blame, if there's no one to intervene and control multiple home ownership, then it's a free for all. Thatcher didn't help things with right-to-buy, wage inflation eroding mortgage debt at an unprecedented level. People could of seen where it ended, but everyone from average joe, to politicians have a stake in this windfall of property. Maybe the stakes have gotten too high now... who knows..

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IMHO BTL-ers are now sitting ducks. The Treasury will have noticed the explosion in the number of people BTL-ing and will just be planning more and more devious ways to ensure they get their pound of flesh from the booming BTL market.

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I don't think there is any point in blaming individuals who act in their own (alleged) economic self interest. There is no morality in business. If you see £20 lying on the ground, you might as well pick it up yourself because you can be damn sure the next guy along will pick it up if you leave it.

This reminded me of the time in the early 70s: I was walking with my mum to the shops (I was about 4) and we found a tenner on the road near our house. My mum picked it up of course, but on the way to the shops she popped into the police station to report it :lol: I can hardly believe this innocence now. (BTW they suggested she keep it and if anyone came in asking for it they'd be sure to let her know.)

Make of it what you will,

JY

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This reminded me of the time in the early 70s: I was walking with my mum to the shops (I was about 4) and we found a tenner on the road near our house. My mum picked it up of course, but on the way to the shops she popped into the police station to report it :lol: I can hardly believe this innocence now. (BTW they suggested she keep it and if anyone came in asking for it they'd be sure to let her know.)

Make of it what you will,

JY

I remember a quote about market efficiency: A professor of economics is walking down the corridor with a student when the student spots a £20 note lying on the floor. As he bends to pick it up, the professor grabs his arm, "stop! If it was really there, someone would have picked it up already."

:P:rolleyes:

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This reminded me of the time in the early 70s: I was walking with my mum to the shops (I was about 4) and we found a tenner on the road near our house. My mum picked it up of course, but on the way to the shops she popped into the police station to report it :lol: I can hardly believe this innocence now. (BTW they suggested she keep it and if anyone came in asking for it they'd be sure to let her know.)

Make of it what you will,

JY

I thought they were entitled to 10% of it as a reward? :unsure:

Anyway I am off to my local friendly police station to see if anybody has handed in my £50. :D

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IMHO BTL-ers are now sitting ducks. The Treasury will have noticed the explosion in the number of people BTL-ing and will just be planning more and more devious ways to ensure they get their pound of flesh from the booming BTL market.

that's one thing that surprises me, the fact that 2nd home owners get tax breaks! if anything they should be paying more. The one explaination for the tax breaks in Council tax is that they don't live in the 2nd homes much-but that's untrue these days as most 2nd homes are BTL.

i dislike BTL amateurs as they are doing it for pure capitalism. Though i don't have a problem with professional Landlords where it is their main job.

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Much like all walks of life. Some I don't agrre with and some I do. The same as tenants. Some are a pain and some, like mine, aren't. Other than covering my mortgage the single most important thing about being a LL is looking after my tenant.

I can't stand bully LL's or the type that rent out illegally, ie too many people in their HMO's to make more profit. Obviously it's the responsibility of tenants too but for some it is far cheaper than renting a studio alone. The new laws regarding HMO's is a welcome one IMO and it is up to neighbours to complain to their council if it appears too many are living in rented accomodation.

To any of them that want to make a better life for themselves and their families, good luck to them. But their tenant must be their priority. Too many buy a sh*thole and do the minimum work to make it habitable. They are the ones being phoned up constantly about things breaking down. In the 18 months i've had mine my tenant called once to inform me that the hot water tap in the kitchen was leaking :D

It's a shame that letting agents charge so much for their services. They are making LL's manage themselves but clearly some don't have the time to.

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I don't think there is any point in blaming individuals who act in their own (alleged) economic self interest. There is no morality in business. If you see £20 lying on the ground, you might as well pick it up yourself because you can be damn sure the next guy along will pick it up if you leave it.

Markets (ALL markets) require regulation to function in a manner that is for the common good. Housing is at the moment a very unregulated market. There needs to be some protection of people's access to reasonably priced, good quality accomodation. It is hard to argue that this would not be for the greater good.

If you watched Tim Harford the economist on Friday evening on his television programme he placed a £50 note on the pavement in London and watched people file over it. This note remained unclaimed and so he picked it up and popped it in his pocket. He also interviewed an expert on bubbles who stated the property market was overvalued.

I spoke to a BTl landlord the other day and he said if second properties were more heavily taxed it would sort out the good landlords from the poor quality landlords. I am in agreement with this sentiment. This may also help take some of the hot air out of the bubble. There will always be more affluent landlords such as the one I spoke to who will always be willing to pay the extra but it may help stop some of the less financially astute jumping on a property bandwagon which has already left the station.

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i dislike BTL amateurs as they are doing it for pure capitalism. Though i don't have a problem with professional Landlords where it is their main job.

It doesn't matter whether they are amateurs or pro's. They are all responsible regardless. I don't btl for a living but I dare say if my tenants washing machine goes bang it will be replaced way before a pro bothers. 2 reasons for this. I probably care more about my tenant and secondly my btl is on my street.

It's a problem when amateurs or pro's buy btl nowhere near them and don't use letting agents (to keep costs down to maximise profits)

This is when tenants have to wait weeks for replacements or attention from their LL's. Pro's often bite off more than they can chew.

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I dont buy this amatuer/professional BTLer bullsh1t - there are plenty of astute landlords with small portfolios who got into BTL in the late 90s and are sat on significant equity - just because you've bought a further 600 city centre apartment blocks and your mate's an FA doesn't make you a 'professional'

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Another question would be:

With hindsight and opportunity how many people here would have got into BTL?

I had the chance in London in 1999. Good friend, who was the manager of one of the local estate agencies, spent considerable time trying to persuade me. He would pass on details of decent property before it got to the market.

I turned him down, several others didn't. They are all faily rich now.

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Many of the BTLers who bought in the last couple of years are realising it's no what they expected , in many cases there rents are not covering there mortgages :D , they have voids where the property is empty :D , they have to pay for repairs to the property and by law must have the boiler serviced every year :D , many provide furniture/appliances that will often have to be replaced :D , more and more regulation coming on stream :D , competing with other landlords for tenants :D , hassle with the tenants :D , many have a letting agent so therefore have to pay commision :D , and the few new amateur BTLers who actually do declare a profit have to pay income tax on it :D .

But these " Property investors " are in it for the long run , as property only ever goes up :lol:

Edited by grey shark

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Many of the BTLers who bought in the last couple of years are realising it's no what they expected , in many cases there rents are not covering there mortgages :D , they have voids where the property is empty :D , they have to pay for repairs to the property and by law must have the boiler serviced every year :D , many provide furniture/appliances that will often have to be replaced :D , more and more regulation coming on stream :D , competing with other landlords for tenants , hassle with the tenants , many have a letting agent so therefore have to pay commision :D , and the few new amateur BTLers who actually do declare a profit have to pay income tax on it .

But these " Property investors " are in it for the long run , as property only ever goes up :lol:

You missed out a lot of IF's :D

You should say away from this site if that's how you really think it is. Sometimes yes but certainly not in my case.

BTW, I had to take out some of your emotions. Couldn't post with that amount.

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I HAVN’T GOT A PROBLEM WITH THEM (not all of them anyway)

BUT….. THESE CRANKS who have been buying in an over inflated bubble for the last 2 or 3 years or so – and taking a monthly loss along the way have got right up my nose.

IDIOTS did they not do maths at school.

rant done.

Sorry but you're not being totally honest . . . with us or yourself. What the hell do YOU care if someone you've never met spends his/her money subsidising their BTL tenants ?

I think you're just pissed off cos they've taken a risk and may be profiting from it expecially if they've bought more than 3 years ago whereas you feel you missed the boat.

That in itself isn't a bad thing, but you should be straight and say it. If I hadn't bought a place and saw lots of people making capital gains on property, I'd be pissed off too . . .

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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