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A Question About Gold

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those of you who have bought gold for a safe place to put money. do you have possession of the gold, or is it just a piece of paper saying you have the gold?

i ask because im not sure why it is safer to own a piece of paper saying you own some gold or a piece of paper saying you have money in the bank.

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For one thing, you can actually get a piece of paper from a bank which holds enough gold to pay it all back (i.e. for every ounce of gold you buy, they buy an ounce and stick it in a vault). Banks don't hold enough paper money to pay out all their deposits.

However, actually having the gold yourself is safer if you can store it.

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Guest Bart of Darkness

those of you who have bought gold for a safe place to put money. do you have possession of the gold, or is it just a piece of paper saying you have the gold?

i ask because im not sure why it is safer to own a piece of paper saying you own some gold or a piece of paper saying you have money in the bank.

Some own gold coins, some have allocated gold accounts.

The point about gold (in theory) is not whether one piece of paper is more valid than another but that gold to retain its value whereas cash tends to lose value (purchasing power).

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The investment subforum is useful. If you buy allocated physical gold, the vendor looks after the gold you own in their vaults. If the vendor goes bust, you still own it. The only way you can loose allocated gold is for the government to steal it, which is possible (if unlikely).

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i ask because im not sure why it is safer to own a piece of paper saying you own some gold or a piece of paper saying you have money in the bank.

why is it safer ?

put your gold and a £50 note in the following and then ask yourself which you would feel safer owning:

a fight with a pair of scissors ? :lol:

being put through a shredder ? :lol::lol:

a fire in your back pocket ? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

the list goes on B)

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why is it safer ?

put your gold and a £50 note in the following and then ask yourself which you would feel safer owning:

a fight with a pair of scissors ? :lol:

being put through a shredder ? :lol::lol:

a fire in your back pocket ? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

the list goes on B)

a piece of paper is a piece of paper isnt it. not sure you have got my point.

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a piece of paper is a piece of paper isnt it. not sure you have got my point.

The piece of paper is a bearer bond ie it is a token which allows you to exchange it for something else. In the good old days paper money used to be technically capable of being exchanged for its value in gold (a microscopic bit of gold admittedly). With your gold certificate that's exactly what you can do but if your certificate is destroyed then you have nothing to show you are entitled to be given the gold because you have lost your bearer bond. Keep the gold somewhere safe - read 'Hot Money'

Edited by Tuffers

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a piece of paper is a piece of paper isnt it. not sure you have got my point.

im not sure youve got my point either.

nevermind, 50 thousand years from now; neither you , myself or or the piece of paper will be here... but the gold will.

have a nice weekend

this might help : http://www.goldmoney.com/en/commentary.php#currenthttp

Edited by debtfree

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Playings devils advocate, if the price of gold got high enough it would become viable to mine one of the heavy metal asteroids, some of them were estimated before the commodity boom to hold more than a trillion dollars worth of heavy metals and minerals.

EDIT:

If ever someone was even seriously say they would try to do that it would cause a collapse in the price of heavy metal commodities.

Edited by Della

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For one thing, you can actually get a piece of paper from a bank which holds enough gold to pay it all back (i.e. for every ounce of gold you buy, they buy an ounce and stick it in a vault). Banks don't hold enough paper money to pay out all their deposits.

However, actually having the gold yourself is safer if you can store it.

One slightly worrying statistic I've heard, is that there is approximately

six times as much 'paper gold' circulating than there exists physical gold.

(i.e. there is paper gold being traded based on gold which doesn't actually exist)

This is how price manipulation of gold has been achieved.

What you say about banks keeping an ounce of gold for each paper promise

they issue was the basis for the worlds reserve currency, the US dollar,

up until about 1973. At which point the US defaulted on the post-war gold standard

agreement, and moved instead to a policy of using the US dollar as the world's

monopoly currency for oil sales.

If the price of gold hadn't been manipulated, the rocketing price of gold would

have made this fact pretty apparent to all.

At the end of the day, how you to choose to invest in gold really depends

on your outlook and situation. Personally I expect things to get pretty bad,

and I have somewhere secure I can store physical gold. So that's what I choose

to do. An allocated gold account with one of the dealers would be my second

preferred option, but I would want to be sure I could lay my hands on the gold

quickly if the need arose.

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Allocated accounts in trusted institutions are one-to-one with big name accountants willing to sign off on it.

Exactly: you only buy 'paper gold' from reliable, audited banks.

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I would imagine finding a truely trustworthy bank is probably

easier said than done. I'm sure you're right though.

I don't have a huge amount of wealth to put into gold so the

overheads of an offshore trust would probably make it

a relatively expensive option, compared to a hole in the ground.

BTW, after 9/11 I'm not sure they'd let anyone other than the military crashland an asteroid on Earth, or even put it in orbit. (Unless it was landed, an orbital asteroid would always be a big danger.) If you're bringing back small bits piecemeal - well current extra-orbital space travel is way too expensive for cheapo stuff like gold. If you had cheap spaceflight - well you have an off-Earth economy that needs more gold/money.

Spaceflight is expensive because it requires so much energy and mantime.

If we had a cheap, clean, unrestricted energy source we could do so

many things. I don't think we would need more gold though,

it would probably a bit like star-trek (i.e. we could make gold with

our synthesizers), in fact it would be better than star-trek because we

wouldn't be dependent on dilithium crystals.

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For sure - but nanotechnological molecular manufacturing will probably spread Earth's economy into a vast solar economy within a decade of reaching maturity, so the ratio of gold will swing back into balance. (I read in New Scientist that Earth's surface is a proportional microcosm of the ratios of elements in the Universe, because its core was splashed during the creation of the Moon - so we have many more heavy metals on the surface than a normal planet like Mars.)

Some of the Asteroids are the heart of the planet that used to exist between Jupiter and Mars and would no doubt be almost pure heavy metal.

EDIT:

The idea with the asteroid was that they'd send a robot to the asteroid who would mine the asteroid, and shot back chunks, similar to what was proposed for mining the moon..

The supposed value of Gold is not due to some property of gold, rather it is mainly that it is rare and doesn't corrode that allows it to represent value, it is not value personified. Other things that share this property could be equally as good as gold even paper money if goverments didn't have the habit of debasing it as an easy way of robbing savers and enriching themselves.

Edited by Della

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Currently, you can only make gold with a supernova (the explosion of a star far larger than the Sun). It might be possible to create gold in the future, but the process would likely need the same energy as a supernova and would only be possible to some sort of star-spanning superintelligence - I doubt gold would be an issue by then.

I think physicists have already succeeded in changing less valuable substances such as lead, into gold,

using these huge particle accelerators you see at physics institutions, it was on TV a while back.

The catch was they only succeeded in creating something like 1 million atoms, which required

god knows how much energy input to run the particle accelerator.

1 million atoms represents something like 0.000000001g.

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I think physicists have already succeeded in changing less valuable substances such as lead, into gold,

using these huge particle accelerators you see at physics institutions, it was on TV a while back.

The catch was they only succeeded in creating something like 1 million atoms, which required

god knows how much energy input to run the particle accelerator.

1 million atoms represents something like 0.000000001g.

It is possible to transmute metals, that's what created all the plutonium in the world because it doesn't exist in nature because it's half life is too short. Very expensive though.

Edited by Della

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I should have said "mass produce" not "create". I think you need energy and containment along the power and pressure of a supernova to make substantial amounts (altering the amount we have in the solar system significantly). (Remember a supernova is so mind-boggling that there is not enough fuel in a pile of hundreds of our solar system/sun to set one off.)

AU!

Gold - class, dignity and scarcity on a cosmic scale. We know this on a deeply subconscious level.

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  • 336 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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