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Ketterinboy

Forever Renter

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If i asked ppl on this board that if you dont own a house and rent now, you will NEVER own a house and would be renting forever, how many would be terrified by this news!

Because i dont understand wot all the fuss is all about, owning your own home is a traditional english way, but it appears times have changed forever and traditions gone in most aspects of life.......so wots the biggy with being a renter not an owner!

By renting your saving money......currently lots and lots of money piling into my bank account each month and i have no commitments (own house) to worry about.

So most ppl wanna earn money and save money so they can eventually retire abroad or somewhere quiet, most ppl do this by selling there family home and buying/downgrading a new home wherever they decide to retire, but why bother owning that home? You can do the same idea but without buying that family home in the first place, and just saving!

Obviously if mortgages where to become cheaper than rent, far enough but why have so many ppl got this mad idea of "i must get on the ladder.....at all costs" !

to me its madness!!

Thoughts please

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Guest Cletus VanDamme

Because i dont understand wot all the fuss is all about, owning your own home is a traditional english way, but it appears times have changed forever and traditions gone in most aspects of life.......so wots the biggy with being a renter not an owner!

If we had more secure tenures as they have on the continent then renting would be a viable long-term option. But, as someone who rented for 10 years in various parts London before buying, I got sick of forking out money for substandard accommodation (what was it about that thin brown carpet and wood chip wallpaper - was that yesterday's laminate and magnolia?) where things didn't get fixed, and where you could get turfed out every 6 months.

Granted, things have improved a lot over the last few years, partly thanks to BTL ! :blink: The rental market is much more competitive and the standard is higher. But if the BTL brigade start to bail out en-masse, as some here are predicting, then renting off these folk doesn't look too secure does it?

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I'm priced out and forced to rent, but can't afford to save for a pension either. Our final salary scheme is closed to anyone who joined in recent years (basically anyone under 30), and the stakeholder scheme is too expensive and risky. So yes, the thought of having to pay rent throughout my retirement without a good pension to fall back on terrifies me. I can only take comfort in the fact that most poeple I know my age (27) aren't contributing to a pension either.

And not forgetting my so called home is only guaranteed for six months. If I could afford to rent in retirement and feel my tennancy is secure, then I wouldn't have a problem.

Edited by Turnbull2000

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If we had more secure tenures as they have on the continent then renting would be a viable long-term option.

I agree with this comment. I have rented in France and the UK and there is no doubt security of tenure really improves the renting experience.

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Currently living in Germany, and no one i know owns there own house.

It is a UK obsession about owning their own house.

Let the UK rot in their own obsession.

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Guest mattsta1964

I agree with this comment. I have rented in France and the UK and there is no doubt security of tenure really improves the renting experience.

The thing most likely to screw up the rental experience is a sh*tty landlord and unfortunately, there are still plenty of em around!

I'd be perfectly happy never to own a property again if I have secure tenure and a decent landlord

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In Germany if you are not happy with something in the flat, too much noise etc,

you have the power to drop the rent. Here the odds are very much in favour of the tenant.

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25 years ago, when renting laws were on the side of the tenant, it was HELL being a landlord.

35 years before that, the UK was subject to air bombardment by a foreign power.

Anyone care to make a prediction for what things are going to be like in the NEXT 25 years?

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I agree with other posters who point out the low quality of the renting experience in this country - I know people renting in France and it is a very different experience.

Short or medium term renting to wait for a crash can make sense, although it can be a problem if you call the top of the market wrong. And if you think (as some here do) that there will be a serious long term decline in property prices, even permanent renting might make sense. But if prices in the long term increase even moderately (more likely IMO), then it may well be worth paying the extra for a mortgage because 25 years of mortgage will leave you with a house, whereas 25 years of renting won't. The extra buys the house, and if there is any capital increase, also gives you a geared increase in wealth.

Some may be able to make better money elsewhere, if so good luck. But for me the second-class nature of renting in this country was a strong incentive to buy instead. And most projections I made over the long term for my situation showed permanent renting to be financially worse.

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Nice thread.

I suppose it depends on how one views property. Lets see how you view it..

....... own a house.......

..... buying that family home.........

Mmm, that's the way I view it too. We may however disagree on this.......

I see the "house" bit as an investment. My money has to go somewhere and stats show in the long term, property performs quite well. I recently STR'd because I believe we are on a knife edge and the next move is down. I do not see my flat as a family home, I see it as a house that, moreover, I do not own. The ownership bit is not too important though unless, as in my case, you do not have a pension.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

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25 years ago, when renting laws were on the side of the tenant, it was HELL being a landlord.

35 years before that, the UK was subject to air bombardment by a foreign power.

Anyone care to make a prediction for what things are going to be like in the NEXT 25 years?

Exactly, lets not get too carried away with this forever stuff.

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I do not see my flat as a family home, I see it as a house that, moreover, I do not own.

Do you have a family (meaning kids)? I suspect that many people who do prefer the emotional stability of owning to renting. I'd be interested to know how many people STR with a family - I would have thought it was an upheaval that is easier to take on if childless...

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Do you have a family (meaning kids)? I suspect that many people who do prefer the emotional stability of owning to renting. I'd be interested to know how many people STR with a family - I would have thought it was an upheaval that is easier to take on if childless...

when I was a child, my folks moved house a few times and it never did me any harm!

(places underpants back on head, gurns and fawns at brochures of BTL portfolios for sale)

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"But what is the point of children? They are just adults with less information." :lol:

:lol:

when I was a child, my folks moved house a few times and it never did me any harm!

(places underpants back on head, gurns and fawns at brochures of BTL portfolios for sale)

Me too. But it's not just about the actual move. It's about the contrast between owning and feeling in control and renting and knowing the landlord can kick you out any time. If you don't have the choice, renting can work, but most parents would prefer to own. Not saying most parents are right, but I don't think the freedom of renting is generally as appealing to someone with kids.

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I agree. I'm childless by choice, and it is far easier to get rich that way for any number of reasons.

One fabulous quote from a guy I met in the US when I was young. I mentioned that I might not join in an entrepreneurial scheme he was suggesting (in 1992, to do with the internet - I imagine he is rich as Cresus by now) because of maybe marrying and having children. He replied:

"But what is the point of children? They are just adults with less information." :lol:

I went to school with quite a few children..........and they aint that bad. :D

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:lol:

Me too. But it's not just about the actual move. It's about the contrast between owning and feeling in control and renting and knowing the landlord can kick you out any time. If you don't have the choice, renting can work, but most parents would prefer to own. Not saying most parents are right, but I don't think the freedom of renting is generally as appealing to someone with kids.

well I have 2 kids and am happy renting.. coz the rent is £700 cheaper per month than an equivalent mortgage (I/O) it means that I'm quids in to spend more money on the family as well. The landlord is happy as he has a very low mortgage on the house so benefits from lack of exposure to interest rate hikes. We signed a rolling year contract and so far so good. Both parties need to give a years notice and that for me is pretty good. TF

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Person A gets a 25 year mortgage

Person B rents for 25 years.

After 25 years, Person A doesn't ever have to worry about having a roof over their head again and now has more cash to spend freely.

After 25 years, Person B is still renting............................

Why is that hard to comprehend? Don't give a flying fart how they do things on the continent.

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well I have 2 kids and am happy renting.. coz the rent is £700 cheaper per month than an equivalent mortgage (I/O) it means that I'm quids in to spend more money on the family as well. The landlord is happy as he has a very low mortgage on the house so benefits from lack of exposure to interest rate hikes. We signed a rolling year contract and so far so good. Both parties need to give a years notice and that for me is pretty good. TF

The stability there sounds good, and way more than most people have on ASTs. I'm sure it's fine for some parents, not saying it's not. My original point was about how many people would STR with kids, which would be a different choice as it would be a switch from owning to renting.

Renting can be great sometimes, no doubt. I had some crappy experiences with landlords that put me off. And I think that if you're comparing renting to buying and saying there is no emotional difference, you need to remember that for the majority of people in the UK there is an emotional difference between the two, right or wrong.

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Do you have a family (meaning kids)? I suspect that many people who do prefer the emotional stability of owning to renting. I'd be interested to know how many people STR with a family - I would have thought it was an upheaval that is easier to take on if childless...

I do. The emotional bit does kick in too. As for the upheaval bit, we're getting used to it now and declutter on a regular basis. I'm the type that likes to own what I posses and as such, through the years, have gone out of my way to pay off the mortgage early. My plan is to retire early with a house that I own and enough to live comfortably on. Going into rented is the ultimate sacrifice but, as I see a very wobbly market at present, I'll run with it......for a while.

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Person A gets a 25 year mortgage

Person B rents for 25 years.

After 25 years, Person A doesn't ever have to worry about having a roof over their head again and now has more cash to spend freely.

After 25 years, Person B is still renting............................

Exactly. So unless person B can genuinely make so much money from the savings and investments over the years to be ahead of person A (and perhaps a bit more to make up for the emotional difference) then the permanent renting option is usually the worse plan.

Short term renting to wait for a correction or to save a bigger deposit is a different matter, but I don't think you should necessarily translate that into "Why don't we all rent forever"...

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Short term renting to wait for a correction or to save a bigger deposit is a different matter, but I don't think you should necessarily translate that into "Why don't we all rent forever"...

perhaps not. As soon as buying becomes cheaper than renting again (which it will), I would have to give it very serious consideration. The principle risk being instant negative equity, of course.

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I do. The emotional bit does kick in too. As for the upheaval bit, we're getting used to it now and declutter on a regular basis. I'm the type that likes to own what I posses and as such, through the years, have gone out of my way to pay off the mortgage early. My plan is to retire early with a house that I own and enough to live comfortably on. Going into rented is the ultimate sacrifice but, as I see a very wobbly market at present, I'll run with it......for a while.

Then I respect your bravery (and powers of persuasion with the other half...).

I tend to think you might have timed it right. What would worry me about STR would be how long you might have to wait. Thus far the market has been pretty stubborn, but it could change fast.

Good luck anyway. I hope it works out for you.

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perhaps not. As soon as buying becomes cheaper than renting again (which it will), I would have to give it very serious consideration. The principle risk being instant negative equity, of course.

Can you please explain how buying a house could ever be cheaper then renting? Historical data would be nice too.

Rent goes up. Mortgage debt stays the same.

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Then I respect your bravery (and powers of persuasion with the other half...).

I tend to think you might have timed it right. What would worry me about STR would be how long you might have to wait. Thus far the market has been pretty stubborn, but it could change fast.

Good luck anyway. I hope it works out for you.

Thank you.

The timing was mostly due to the good people of this forum. We had decided to sell anyway but did a few sums and researched a bit and presto, moved out the same time rates went up. I note from your earlier post that you bought due to the long term trend. It's good to see other people doing some maths too.

You just gave me an idea for a thread. :)

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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