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Buffer Bear

Repo Bargains - Ref Tomr 2006

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Courtesy of tomr.

*************ind...?showtopic=8189

That's a shame because it is a really good thread about repos. Go to Barnard Marcus website Auction 12.9.06. Loads of repos being offloaded by Halifax. Compare guide price to selling price via www.housprices.co.uk.

Shocking.

By tomr

Barnard Marcus Auctions have put on a special auction on Sept 12th which seems to be solely for the purpose of shifting Halifax reposessions. Have a look on the main site and click on Current Auction or go straight to the listings page. Every lot seems to be for sale by the Halifax. Check out the guide price vs. the most recent selling price on houseprices.co.uk. Here's just a few examples:

Lot 1 - 40 Croyland Road N9 - sold for £144,995 december 2003 - guide price £100,000+

Lot 2 - Flat 5 310 Finchley Road NW3 - sold for £230,000 november 2002 - guide price £185,000+

Lot 3 - Flat 9 502 Caledonian Road N7 - sold for £305,000 may 2003 - guide price £210,000+ .. ouch!

I could go on. But these are only guide prices so you can take them with a pinch of salt. What's a bit more interesting is looking at the "results" of the last auction. Listings here.

Lot 2 - Flat 9 Centurion House HA8 - sold as newbuild for £338,950 august 2004 - reposessed and sold at auction july 2006 for £237,000.

Lot 3 - 35 Wyatt Point SE28 - reserved off plan for £238,545 and immediately sold on for £299,995 in may 2005 - reposessed and sold at auction july 2006 for ........ £178,000.

Lot 106 - Flat 140 Wigan House E5 (not even a newbuild) - sold for £150,000 april 2004 - sold at auction july 2006 for £115,000.

Lot 110 - Flat 38 Laverton Mill - sold for £59,950 sept 2003 - sold at auction july 2006 for £54,000.

Lot 112 - 52 Ball Street NG3 - sold for £144,950 nov 2004 - sold at auction july 2006 for £92,000 - another really nasty one!

Lot 117 - Apartment 64 Lake House M15 - sold for £185,000 feb 2005 - sold at auction july 2006 for £136,000.

Lot 132 - Flat 9 Jessops Wharf TW8 - sold for £377,950 march 2005 - sold at auction july 2006 for £280,000 .. ouch.

and finally..

Lot 205 - Flat 10 Royal Fountain Mews ME12 - sold for £55,000 july 2004 - sold at auction july 2006 for £26,500 - more than halved in value in the last 2 years!

If anyone else fancies looking at some other recent auctions on other sites then please let us know what you find! I personally am waiting for Sept 13th to view the results of the Barnard Marcus repo-tastic special auction, with eager anticipation.

Buffer Bear Today, 12:33 AM Post #2

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=61%2C...k+road&n=10

Cost 480k in Nov 2004

Guide price 380-400k

14/04/2005 £209,995 Flat 19, Allenby Road, Greenwich, London, Greater London, SE28 0AL

Guide price 120k.

Reality. Looks like Halifax have been busy repossessing homes. Here is the evidence that things are going horribly wrong / right for many. I haven't seen this level of repossessions in years and this really is just the start.

Edited by Buffer Bear

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There are a lot of "flats" in there - recent FTB's overstretching themselves maybe?

These are the kind of losses it IS worth going bankrupt over....

Edited by dnd

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Buy low, sell high

You can't go wrong ;)

PS you need to be very organised to buy a property in an auction (thinking about survey report for a mortgage) and you need to do all the usual legal searches in a hurry which costs, oh and strong nerves when the bidding starts.

Edited by expatowner

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Buy low, sell high

You can't go wrong ;)

Sadly that hasn't been the prevailing BTL strategy for all the newbie BTL fools.

More like buy high, and expect to be able to sell higher.

Otherwise known as the "greater fool" investment strategy.

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The results are out from BM's auction held 12.9.06. Few examples posted below.

09/06/2004 £364,950 Flat L No Map 69 Centurion House, Flat 28, Station Road, Barnet, Edgware, Greater London, HA8 7JQ

Sold for 255k :ph34r:

1 28/05/2003 £305,000 Flat L Yes Map 502, 9 Flat, Caledonian Road, Islington, London, Greater London, N7 9GB

Sold for 276k :ph34r:

30/06/2004 £263,500 Flat L No Map 85, Glebelands Close, Barnet, London, Greater London, N12 0AL

Sold for 234K :ph34r:

1 23/11/2004 £480,000 Flat L Yes Map 112 Candlemakers Apartments, 61 Apartment, York Road, Wandsworth, London, Greater London, SW11 3RS

Sold for 391k :ph34r:

1 15/06/2005 £386,250 Flat L Yes Map 27, Flat 15, Hardwicks Way, Wandsworth, London, Greater London, SW18 4AL

Sold for 300k :ph34r:

4 10/11/2004 £230,000 Flat L No Map 122, Flat 4, Uxbridge Road, Hammersmith And Fulham, London, Greater London, W12 8AA

Sold for 164k :ph34r:

1 10/10/2002 £485,000 Det. F N/A Map Summer Place, Brick Hill, Chobham, Woking, Surrey, GU24 8TF

Sold for 498k :ph34r: Yes that's right. Real value 'only' increased by 13k over 4 years.

1 30/11/2004 £208,995 Ter. F Yes Map 49, Old Moors, Great Leighs, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 1GX

Sold for 180k :ph34r:

Edited by Buffer Bear

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How about this one from 12th September - Lot 100

Apartment 308, Weekday Cross Building, Pilcher Gate, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, NG1 1QH

Bidding started at £105k, eventually sold for £122k

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=ng11qh

9 01/12/2003 £209,950 Flat L N/A Map 5 7, 308 Apartment, Weekday Cross, Nottingham, City Of Nottingham, NG1 1QH

42% fall in 34 months

Central Nottingham appears to be the epicentre ...

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What would a VI say to this?

"Nothing to see here folks. Move along." <_<

We can guarantee that no matter how catastrophic a collapse, we'll never read much about it. But the effects will be everywhere and we'll keep meeting people caught up in it.

"Nothing to see here folks. Move along."

Yes. What about a TV show that follows a group of BTL'rs who go from riches to rags. Following them from purchase to reposession. A year later we could have a follow up programme showing their new life as bankrupts.

I can see it now

Beany Look alike: "Jon bought this brand new apartment in 2004 for £320k, after spending more than £23,000 in 2 years supplementing his motgage he has now put the property in the hands of his lender. We took 3 potential repo auction buyers around the property to see what they would be willing to pay for the property.

Buyer 1: " Its a good apartment I would expect to pay around £220k for a property of this type"

Buyer 2: " Looking at the area and rental potential I would place a value on this property of £200k"

Buyer 3: " I would pay no more than £230k for this flat"

Beany Look alike: "So Jon we have had 3 valuations from local repo buyers and they have come in at £220k, £200k and £230k so an average price of around £215k. Now after all costs have been taken into account that equates to a loss of just over £150k. How do you feel about that.

Jon: (sobbing) My life is...ruined

Beany look alike: As we have always said property like all investments can go down as well as up. Join me next week when we meet a young couple Andy and Sue from Newcastle who intended to make a fortune by buying 4 flats in the same development after being offered a 20% discount. Watch as their lives fall apart and Andy finds himself on the streets in yet another exciting edition of "BTL'rs under the Hammer"

(Smile to Camera) Cut away slowly from a sobbing Jon being comforted by Beany Look alike in an empty bedsit.

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Interesting stats. But nothing to do with the market.

Just a demonstration of how supply and demand works. Over supply of flats so prices fall, undersupply of houses so they rise.

And as all the figures are included in LR data, it just means that house prices must be rising even faster than we thought to compensate for poor performing flats.

Try doing the same exercise with 30 houses at auction.

A further anomaly is that large numbers of flats were sold with 15% cash back. Buyer pays £200k - £200k appears on LR, buyer gets £30k cash back. So real price paid was £170k. Still losses, but perhaps not so dramatic.

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Rememeber Phil Spencer about a year ago when he and the one who name should not be mentioned were doing their usual.

Looking at a house in Chiswick, and Phil says something like:

"This is a £550k house, but it will probably sell for £500k."

Interesting times...

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Interesting stats. But nothing to do with the market.

Just a demonstration of how supply and demand works. Over supply of flats so prices fall, undersupply of houses so they rise.

And as all the figures are included in LR data, it just means that house prices must be rising even faster than we thought to compensate for poor performing flats.

Try doing the same exercise with 30 houses at auction.

A further anomaly is that large numbers of flats were sold with 15% cash back. Buyer pays £200k - £200k appears on LR, buyer gets £30k cash back. So real price paid was £170k. Still losses, but perhaps not so dramatic.

My experience in Sussex shows that houses as well as flats are being offered at at least 10% below asking prices. In this area the slowdown has been obvious since June. Flats in Hove especially look to have just stopped selling completely. I was interested in buying a new build in Hove and saw a development in Central Hove that I was interested in. I was told by the EA that flats were flying out the door to London buyers looking for a new lifestyle. Anyway this new build development has 20 units for sale. It has a board stating 75% sold. Indeed 5 units remain unsold (although only 4 of the 15 apparently sold flats come up on LR data). They have been marketed since April 2006 but still to this day the 5 units remain unsold. Apparently they have already been reduced in price back in June but there is simply no interest in them. Another development on Silverdale Avenue (a retirement home made into a number of flats), they are priced around the £250k mark. Not one has sold in 6 months.

I had almost fallen for the VI spin and was about to put in an offer of 10% below asking but then thought "No give it a few weeks and see how things are selling". When I realised nothing had sold over that period I put in an offer of 20% less and I'm just going to wait until it is accepted. It might take another 3 months but one thing I know for sure is these flats are going nowhere.

I spoke to an EA I know here and he reckons all of the investors have moved out of the area and the amateur BTL'ers are being denied BTL mortgages on these properties because the lenders are undervaluing them (smelling the coffee more like). The development on West Street in Brighton for example are only 25% sold in Phase One !!!!! that means they have sold about 5 of the 200 planned flats even though they have been marketed since March 2006. To me that is a disaster. I think this is going to come to a head and the developers are going to have to trim back prices substantially. This will in turn bring the whole market down flats and houses.

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Courtesy of tomr.

*************ind...?showtopic=8189

That's a shame because it is a really good thread about repos. Go to Barnard Marcus website Auction 12.9.06. Loads of repos being offloaded by Halifax. Compare guide price to selling price via www.housprices.co.uk.

Shocking.

By tomr

Barnard Marcus Auctions have put on a special auction on Sept 12th which seems to be solely for the purpose of shifting Halifax reposessions. Have a look on the main site and click on Current Auction or go straight to the listings page. Every lot seems to be for sale by the Halifax. Check out the guide price vs. the most recent selling price on houseprices.co.uk. Here's just a few examples:

Lot 1 - 40 Croyland Road N9 - sold for £144,995 december 2003 - guide price £100,000+

Lot 2 - Flat 5 310 Finchley Road NW3 - sold for £230,000 november 2002 - guide price £185,000+

Lot 3 - Flat 9 502 Caledonian Road N7 - sold for £305,000 may 2003 - guide price £210,000+ .. ouch!

I could go on. But these are only guide prices so you can take them with a pinch of salt. What's a bit more interesting is looking at the "results" of the last auction. Listings here.

Lot 2 - Flat 9 Centurion House HA8 - sold as newbuild for £338,950 august 2004 - reposessed and sold at auction july 2006 for £237,000.

Lot 3 - 35 Wyatt Point SE28 - reserved off plan for £238,545 and immediately sold on for £299,995 in may 2005 - reposessed and sold at auction july 2006 for ........ £178,000.

Lot 106 - Flat 140 Wigan House E5 (not even a newbuild) - sold for £150,000 april 2004 - sold at auction july 2006 for £115,000.

Lot 110 - Flat 38 Laverton Mill - sold for £59,950 sept 2003 - sold at auction july 2006 for £54,000.

Lot 112 - 52 Ball Street NG3 - sold for £144,950 nov 2004 - sold at auction july 2006 for £92,000 - another really nasty one!

Lot 117 - Apartment 64 Lake House M15 - sold for £185,000 feb 2005 - sold at auction july 2006 for £136,000.

Lot 132 - Flat 9 Jessops Wharf TW8 - sold for £377,950 march 2005 - sold at auction july 2006 for £280,000 .. ouch.

and finally..

Lot 205 - Flat 10 Royal Fountain Mews ME12 - sold for £55,000 july 2004 - sold at auction july 2006 for £26,500 - more than halved in value in the last 2 years!

If anyone else fancies looking at some other recent auctions on other sites then please let us know what you find! I personally am waiting for Sept 13th to view the results of the Barnard Marcus repo-tastic special auction, with eager anticipation.

Buffer Bear Today, 12:33 AM Post #2

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=61%2C...k+road&n=10

Cost 480k in Nov 2004

Guide price 380-400k

14/04/2005 £209,995 Flat 19, Allenby Road, Greenwich, London, Greater London, SE28 0AL

Guide price 120k.

Reality. Looks like Halifax have been busy repossessing homes. Here is the evidence that things are going horribly wrong / right for many. I haven't seen this level of repossessions in years and this really is just the start.

Yep, there will be a wealth of bargains both in auction and by conventional means in the near future.

Edited by CrashDive

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I spoke to an EA I know here and he reckons all of the investors have moved out of the area and the amateur BTL'ers are being denied BTL mortgages on these properties because the lenders are undervaluing them (smelling the coffee more like).

I was looking to buy a house fairly recently, I paid for a valuation survey. The bank initially said they would accept the valuation on this survey, but then change their minds and revalued the property at 10% below the original mortgage valuation.

Some friends of mine got a valuation on their house of £150k earlier this year, they paid £130k - 2 years ago. They wanted to change mortgages and take out a fixed rate mortgage and free up some equity, but the bank has now valued the property at £90k. They paid quite a large deposit, but now according to the banks valuation there is no equity in the house now and they cant change mortgages.

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Some friends of mine got a valuation on their house of £150k earlier this year, they paid £130k - 2 years ago. They wanted to change mortgages and take out a fixed rate mortgage and free up some equity, but the bank has now valued the property at £90k. They paid quite a large deposit, but now according to the banks valuation there is no equity in the house now and they cant change mortgages.

Where's that - is it ex-council ? I can see this happening with flats at the moment, but not with houses and certainly it's a shock for that to be the case at that level of the market.

I liked the free up some equity comment - I think what that really means is, they wanted to go shopping or roll their other debts into their mortgage..... :)

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Where's that - is it ex-council ? I can see this happening with flats at the moment, but not with houses and certainly it's a shock for that to be the case at that level of the market.

I liked the free up some equity comment - I think what that really means is, they wanted to go shopping or roll their other debts into their mortgage..... :)

Actually they have a 2 bedroom house in the southwest of England - it would probably sell for £150k if not more, but the bank won't value it at that - This year I have found that the bank I use is much tighter with its valuations.

Yeah, free up some equity and get more debt. I had this discussion with someone the other day, he could not seem to understand that having £30k equity in his house did not mean he was £30k wealthier. Actually they wanted the money to pay a deposit on a property abroad - personally I felt it was very risky giving £11k as a deposit for a plot of land. They think that when it is completed next year they can sell it and make money from it (If it doesn't sell they either have to take out a mortgage they can't afford or lose their £11k). And then there is the risk it won't even get built.

But house prices keep going up as they tell me and they don't believe the can/will drop.

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