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Fancypants

Would An Hpc Actually Bring Down The Government?

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I ask this question because, on the face of it, one might imagine that it would. Obviously, there is plenty of talk here about how Brown is desperate to postpone the inevitable until Tony clears off.

However, it has occurred to me that there are parallels with 1992 here. In the midst of an HPC and attendant recession, Major's government survived. A jaded government with residual totalitarian tendencies (poll tax, CJB etc), grappling with a spluttering economy... and it survived.

So it is possible, n'est pas? Thoughts, please!

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A jaded government with residual totalitarian tendencies (poll tax, CJB etc), grappling with a spluttering economy... and it survived.

Because the one thing worse than a Major government was a Labour government: that election was Labour's to lose, not Major's to win. Similarly, the next election will probably be for the Tories to lose.

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Possibly not on it's own, but as you can see from the posts on here that mention immigration, there are a lot of unhappy people, unhappy about lots of things so all we need now is David Davis to take over the tory party and life will be rosy :-)

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Because the one thing worse than a Major government was a Labour government: that election was Labour's to lose, not Major's to win. Similarly, the next election will probably be for the Tories to lose.

that more or less mirrors my thinking. I wonder if Cameron has what is required to make the Tories truly credible. To be honest, I'm not so sure he does - Labour to have a 4th and deeply ineffective term? (further parallels with 92 - you can tell this kind of thing appeals to me!)

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And, they will! They're good at it. Plenty of practice!

p

Well I am a bit of a Tory and even I hope they loose the next election. The British economy is f**cked and I want NuLab to be in charge when it all hits the fan - to make sure the British people realise that the Miracle Economy is a sham and they have been suckered (up their eye balls) into it.

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I wonder if Cameron has what is required to make the Tories truly credible.

Of course he has! Little rich boy. Eton. Oxbridge. 'Nice and neat' hair. Typical Tory, is he not? He'll keep the Tories out of office for at least one Parliament. That'll do for now.

p

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Well I am a bit of a Tory and even I hope they loose the next election. The British economy is f**cked and I want NuLab to be in charge when it all hits the fan - to make sure the British people realise that the Miracle Economy is a sham and they have been suckered (up their eye balls) into it.

Exactly. Another Five years of fan/sh1t action under NuLiebor, let the people see what a mirage economy is really all about, and who caused it.

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NO govt. has ever lost an election when it has been at war.

EVER.

Without war I think Labour will lose. Given that the economy takes it's natural course.

But we keep being told we aren't at war. Not in a conventional manner anyway, more so a war on terror. Plus, most people want our boys brought back home.

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yes, the associated recession would bring down Blair's government.....

But none of us really know how the economy would be doing if we hadnt had the house price boom....there are lots of variables in the equation eg MEW at 6% of GDP artificially stimulating demand but countering this lots of 20-somethings scrimping and saving to pay big mortgages or saving large deposits....

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Would An Hpc Actually Bring Down The Government?

Oh I hope so. I really, really hope so.

I think it's only when NuLabour fall that we will really find out how deep the rabbit hole goes. A HPC could easilly trigger the fall of the Government. Just imagine how the masses will react when you take away their free money.

""the impeachment of Mr Blair is now something I believe must happen if we are to rekindle interest in the democratic process."

General Sir Michael Rose, adjutant general of the British army and commander of the UN protection force in Bosnia

Personally, I would love nothing more than to see Blair and his apparatchiks lined up agains the nearest wall. Sadly, the chance of that happening is pretty slim. Seeing him led away from Downing Street in handcuffs though, would be the next best thing.

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lots of 20-somethings scrimping and saving to pay big mortgages or saving large deposits....

sadly, I think this bit is very far from the mark! Attitudes to debt and saving have changed so markedly in the last 7 or 8 years that very few would-be FTBers bother with something so ridiculous as saving

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Personally, I would love nothing more than to see Blair and his apparatchiks lined up agains the nearest wall. Sadly, the chance of that happening is pretty slim. Seeing him led away from Downing Street in handcuffs though, would be the next best thing.

Brother, I would agree wholeheartedly with you if I didn't think that the people leading Blair away wouldn't just end up committing the same crimes as he did.

Ultimately, we get the government that we deserve. If people weren't generally complacent, apathetic and self-satisfied then the government might actually have to behave a bit more responsibly.

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Well I am a bit of a Tory and even I hope they loose the next election. The British economy is f**cked and I want NuLab to be in charge when it all hits the fan - to make sure the British people realise that the Miracle Economy is a sham and they have been suckered (up their eye balls) into it.

spot on

if i was cameron i wouldn't even contest the next election

as i'v said before nulab inherited the best set of "books" in years - and will no doubt pass on the worst.

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When people think back to the Major years - the sleaze, the lack of political control, the infighting and so on - I suspect that the ERM disaster and trashing of the economy are fairly significant in people's minds.

With the New Labour PR machine at full power and continous growth, and endlessly rising house prices (it says so on the news, anyway) I suspect that currently people would feel safer with New Labour than risk the Conservatives trashing the economy again and wiping out all that equity. (Conveniently forgetting the 1970s and Labour's efforts back then)

I've always thought that elections are more or less down to the economy anyway: regardless of the war on terror, the unions, schools, hospitals and so forth: most votes are simply down to the amount of money people imagine they'll personally gain or lose by voting for one party over another and little to do with politics as such; that no other topic or issue is anywhere near as significant and it's one of the reasons Labour always struggled (I rememember the "Labour's Tax Bombshell" campaign - eventually the Conservatives were on their knees but they still won because Labour couldn't be trusted. Until the Conservatives "broke it" too, so Labour "couldn't be any worse")

If falling house prices are taken up by the media and the stories are common one barrier to voting Conservative - the economy - is removed. So I don't think it would bring down the Government as such, but it might be a step in that direction.

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When people think back to the Major years - the sleaze, the lack of political control, the infighting and so on - I suspect that the ERM disaster and trashing of the economy are fairly significant in people's minds.

With the New Labour PR machine at full power and continous growth, and endlessly rising house prices (it says so on the news, anyway) I suspect that currently people would feel safer with New Labour than risk the Conservatives trashing the economy again and wiping out all that equity. (Conveniently forgetting the 1970s and Labour's efforts back then)

that is something else also worthy of mention. We still have a majority of voters old enough to remember the Major government as adults of a working age. This will obviously decline with time. Just like Labour's victory in 97 was assisted by a generation of voters too young to recall the problems of the 70s, we are perhaps some time away from a similar number of old "tory haters" to pass on and young "who was John Major?" voters to replace them.

Like low inflation interest rate "cycles" maybe we now have slow electoral cycles where governments are only replaced when enough people who remember how shocking the last lot were pass away! No more 70s style volatility and electoral boom and bust :P

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Why are so many of the posters in this thread talking like the election is this year??

Next one is in 2009 at least! The economy will be well shafted by then and plain for all to see. Hell l think the recession has been underway for about 18 months, Thinly papered over with cheaper and cheaper borrowing..which has now dried up. 6 months/end of yr max and we will be in an official statistical recession.

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Possibly not on it's own, but as you can see from the posts on here that mention immigration, there are a lot of unhappy people, unhappy about lots of things so all we need now is David Davis to take over the tory party and life will be rosy :-)

If this country were to limit immigration in any serious way it would be all the confirmation anyone could possibly need that Britain, the US and its allies are simply meddling opportunists who care about nothing more than maintaining their respective economic and geo-political status quo.

The levels of immigration in this country are directly proportionate to the levels of intervention and meddling in the affairs of other nations around the world. Our leaders have made the causes and now we must deal with the effects. It's a lll very well bemoaning the arrival of the immigrants that people on here clearly DON'T want ie the Somalians, Iraqis etc but the facts are that Britain and America have forced various situations in order to preserve the flow of the black gold upon which so much of our economy depends by ensuring sovereign governments remain or are installed to fit in with our agenda.

I for one will not vote for a party that promises to limit immigration as part of a cynical ploy to gain votes. I will, however, vote for a party that addresses the need for a comprehensive foreign policy that eventually negates the need for people to emigrate from their homelands in the first place.

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So you boot out the current 'Tory' government for what? To get another one? What good would a Tory win do for the housing sector? Do you think they would upset their home-owning 'natural supporters' to help the many get on the housing ladder? Tories help the many, that'll be a first.

You might not like Labour -- I certainly don't like the current crew -- but you are more likely to get a fairer housing policy from them than the Tories.

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When people think back to the Major years - the sleaze, the lack of political control, the infighting and so on - I suspect that the ERM disaster and trashing of the economy are fairly significant in people's minds.

With the New Labour PR machine at full power and continous growth, and endlessly rising house prices (it says so on the news, anyway) I suspect that currently people would feel safer with New Labour than risk the Conservatives trashing the economy again and wiping out all that equity. (Conveniently forgetting the 1970s and Labour's efforts back then)

I've always thought that elections are more or less down to the economy anyway: regardless of the war on terror, the unions, schools, hospitals and so forth: most votes are simply down to the amount of money people imagine they'll personally gain or lose by voting for one party over another and little to do with politics as such; that no other topic or issue is anywhere near as significant and it's one of the reasons Labour always struggled (I rememember the "Labour's Tax Bombshell" campaign - eventually the Conservatives were on their knees but they still won because Labour couldn't be trusted. Until the Conservatives "broke it" too, so Labour "couldn't be any worse")

If falling house prices are taken up by the media and the stories are common one barrier to voting Conservative - the economy - is removed. So I don't think it would bring down the Government as such, but it might be a step in that direction.

Everyone goes on about Major and the mess the country was in economically. I vaguely remember it different. House prices were reasonable. Real jobs were being created, debt was very low compared to today, the government books were balanced, taxes were lowewr. People seemed to be doing a lot more for themselves. The attitude of my peers seemed to 'sod the government lets do it ourselves' and 'take our taxes, administer them, dish them out to the necessary departments, then shut up and stay out of our way'.

What happened???. Did people need leading by that cheese eating fake Bliar and his phoney grin. Did we need more excitement, more easy cash to buy more flash tat and 4x4's.

I may have remebered it wrong. But I would swap certainly swap 96/97 for 06/07.

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sadly, I think this bit is very far from the mark! Attitudes to debt and saving have changed so markedly in the last 7 or 8 years that very few would-be FTBers bother with something so ridiculous as saving

From a personal point of view I have to disagree. My girlfriend and I are saving furiously (ages 26 and 31). We are on a 4 year saving schedule and many of my peers are doing the same. In fact, I often think that if everyone adopted the spending habits that I have the economy would have collapsed long ago! I honestly believe that there is disquiet amoungst the x-generation and serious interest in the next £5000 wiped of the average house price as it's £5000 that doesn't have to be worked for and saved.

Before my partner had a career change, she worked for connexions (the careers service) and was regularly asked to be creative in hiding the NiET group of young people (not in education or training) so as to make NuLab stats look rosy. With this level of institutional deception I think they may hide the precipice until 2009 (calling an early election?) and get a final term.

I hope this goes someway to demonstrating the group of 20 somethings that do hold a certain amount of financial awareness ;)

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Everyone goes on about Major and the mess the country was in economically. I vaguely remember it different. House prices were reasonable. Real jobs were being created, debt was very low compared to today, the government books were balanced, taxes were lowewr. People seemed to be doing a lot more for themselves. The attitude of my peers seemed to 'sod the government lets do it ourselves' and 'take our taxes, administer them, dish them out to the necessary departments, then shut up and stay out of our way'.

What happened???. Did people need leading by that cheese eating fake Bliar and his phoney grin. Did we need more excitement, more easy cash to buy more flash tat and 4x4's.

I may have remebered it wrong. But I would swap certainly swap 96/97 for 06/07.

the only people who were suffering from 93-97 were those who had indebted themselves heavily in the mid-late 80s. I'm not sure the employment situation was that great at the time either to be fair.

Edited by Milkshock

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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