Rapid Descent Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 ROFLMAO PatPrimer74 who apparently wants to stop the the forum being clogged up on immigration debate, aims to achieve this by posting up a strongly provocative polemic. I wouldn't mind so much but the polemic cites the Independent as "the truth"!!! Seriously, these days I would rate the Mirror as a better source than the Independent (if you want halfway decent left wing opinion, the Grauniad is still leagues ahead of the Indie) Entertaining methodical destruction of the Independent article over at Scott Burgess' Daily Ablution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurejon Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I have bothered to get off my **** to learn skills that can be used anywhere in the world so I am free to choose where I live and work. It's the promotion of Nationalism that encourages fear and mistrust and hatred to spread. It's already a poison in this country and it's about time everyone grew up and accepted that irrespective of colour, country of origin or creed we all have an equal rights and obligations to all others in the world You speak for yourself mate, my obligations are certainly not to anyone overseas. My obligations are to pay my taxes and get something back for my money. I dont give a rats **** what anyone overseas does, that is their own business, and certainly not ours. We have no overseas obligations, its those mysterious and fictitious obligations that messed up Iraq, and most likely Iran. People should spend more time worrying about their own lives before they go interferring with other peoples business in countries they have never even visited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 You speak for yourself mate, my obligations are certainly not to anyone overseas. My obligations are to pay my taxes and get something back for my money. I dont give a rats **** what anyone overseas does, that is their own business, and certainly not ours. We have no overseas obligations, its those mysterious and fictitious obligations that messed up Iraq, and most likely Iran. People should spend more time worrying about their own lives before they go interferring with other peoples business in countries they have never even visited. I worked my **** off at University and worked hard paying my taxes. I could have worked anywhere in my twenties too but like you I chose to support the country I trusted and build a life. Apparently I shouldn't feel upset because I feel forced to leave my country because the government choose to wreck it. The moral of the story therefore: don't bother trying hard in Britain because once you're doing well the government will make you unemployed one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#scoobydoo# Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I worked my **** off at University and worked hard paying my taxes. I could have worked anywhere in my twenties too but like you I chose to support the country I trusted and build a life. Apparently I shouldn't feel upset because I feel forced to leave my country because the government choose to wreck it. The moral of the story therefore: don't bother trying hard in Britain because once you're doing well the government will make you unemployed one way or another. I am starting to suspect that 'Pat Primer' and 'Cuckoo' are BNP moles trying to stir things up, it is the only logical explanation for their point of views!?!?!?! LMAO #scoobydoo# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xurbia Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I am starting to suspect that 'Pat Primer' and 'Cuckoo' are BNP moles trying to stir things up, it is the only logical explanation for their point of views!?!?!?! LMAO #scoobydoo# With a name like Cuckoo it's definitely suspect. Can't abide the BNP myself but free-speech and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#scoobydoo# Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 ROFLMAO PatPrimer74 who apparently wants to stop the the forum being clogged up on immigration debate, aims to achieve this by posting up a strongly provocative polemic. I wouldn't mind so much but the polemic cites the Independent as "the truth"!!! Seriously, these days I would rate the Mirror as a better source than the Independent (if you want halfway decent left wing opinion, the Grauniad is still leagues ahead of the Indie) Entertaining methodical destruction of the Independent article over at Scott Burgess' Daily Ablution Excellent find, I hope PatPrimer chokes when he reads this lol... #scoobydoo# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaTB Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 OK Pat, Lets approach this from a different angle......... We keep having to explain ourselves, for being "anti mass immigration" Will you explain why you are so "Pro immigration" and what level of control if any is acceptable to you ??? Thanks. My question to Pat still stands, We have explained why mass immigration has negative effects. Reaonable people can have sensible economic arguments against it without being at all racist. So please explain why you think its such a good thing, and what control if any you would put in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurejon Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Things go in circles, and that will be the case again. It is a great shame the Governments have not listened to the people, and have preffered to listen to the corporations who line their pockets so luxuriously. There will be trouble on the streets, and we all know it. If we hit a recession as I think is around the corner then that will strike an end to the so called redistribution of wealth this government have been furiously working away at. Literally millions of public service workers jobs will be cut overnight, people will be scratching around for a days work here and there, people will be working on the side whilst claiming benefits again, and benefits will be axed. And that is where it will all go horribly wrong. It might suprise you to know that I do not have any problems with people from anywhere in the world, but I do feel that a nation is something that represents years of hard work and sacrifices. And as such, it should be respected, valued, and protected. To open it up to all and sundry is just asking for problems, and that is exactly the juncture we are at today with terrorist alerts, mistrust in communities, and endless problems with people from different nations and differerent religions. It just doesnt work, its like mixing cats and dogs together, they just get by, but never trusted by one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#scoobydoo# Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) ROFLMAO PatPrimer74 who apparently wants to stop the the forum being clogged up on immigration debate, aims to achieve this by posting up a strongly provocative polemic. I wouldn't mind so much but the polemic cites the Independent as "the truth"!!! Seriously, these days I would rate the Mirror as a better source than the Independent (if you want halfway decent left wing opinion, the Grauniad is still leagues ahead of the Indie) Entertaining methodical destruction of the Independent article over at Scott Burgess' Daily Ablution Everyone please read this excellent blog, has saved me some graft, especially 'Cuckoo and PatPrimer74' http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_a...ndy_fisks_.html #scoobydoo# Edited August 22, 2006 by #scoobydoo# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Seems like the prison service would disagree with Pats "facts" on how immigrants are enriching and improving Britain: Britain’s already overcrowded prisons are struggling to cope with a massive rise in the number of foreign prisoners. One in seven inmates is a foreign national and the number is rising four times faster than home-grown detainees. Prisons in England and Wales now house criminals from 168 countries. According to figures released by the Home Office since 2001, the number of foreign nationals has risen from 6,926 to 10,834, an increase of more than 50 per cent. Over the same period, the number of British prisoners has risen by 12 per cent to around 66,000. Jamaica tops the table of foreign prisoners, with 1,564 nationals, including 134 women. Nigeria has the second largest contingent, followed by the Irish Republic, Pakistan, Turkey and Somalia. Prison officers' leaders said last night that the huge number of foreign inmates, many of whom did not speak English, was making the policing of prisons more and more difficult. The scale of the increase emerged four months after Charles Clarke was forced out as home secretary after he was engulfed by a foreign prisoners scandal. He quit after it emerged that more than 1,000 foreigners had been released at the end of their sentences without being considered for deportation. The huge increase was greeted with concern by Brian Caton, the general secretary of the Prison Officers' Association. He said he had been shocked at the number of foreign inmates he had encountered during a recent visit to the Verne Prison, in Portland, Dorset. "Increases of this nature result in huge cultural and language difficulties in our prisons," he said. "We are ill-prepared, ill-trained and quite incapable of meeting the needs of many of these prisoners." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Independent truth. * IMMIGRANTS TO FLOOD IN - Daily Star 24/07 Claim: Britain will be swamped by up to 145,000 poverty-stricken migrants from Bulgaria and Romania who are expected to flock here once they join the EU. Reality: Think-tank the IPPR estimates 56,000 will arrive from both countries in the first year - 41,000 of them from Romania. A Bulgarian government survey revealed only 2.9 per cent of its nationals planned to migrate. Poor old Doodlydoo - he'll go ballistic, poor demented little person. p 2.9 % of the population of Bulgaria is over 200,000. I guess the Independent can not do maths or hopes its readers are too stupid to do the sums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuberider Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 So, it was OK for you to be an economic migrant to Germany but not for Eastern Euros to come to work here? Having trouble answering a straightforward question? Pal! Typical hypocrisy so common nowadays on this website. It's OK for the English to export themselves all over the place to better their way of life, but God forbid other peoples do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuberider Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I think the Poles are a good thing for England. I think you can learn a lot from the Poles. They will invigorate your decaying society and teach you again what hard work, dedication and family mean. But I do not think they will stay for too long. Poland will be the next EU tiger, their economy is being stimulated by the remittances from Poles abroad and this money will be used for investment and growth. They will follow the same trajectory as Ireland in the past, which was also an exporter of immigrants (and the English didn't like them much, either as I recall. No Irish, no Blacks ?). I think the Romanians/ Bulgarians may not be so good for England, as the Roma will probably be the majority of immigrants from these lands. They are a difficult group to deal with and will probably abuse the country rather than contribute to it. I also think that the Muslim immigrants are (on the whole), pretty bad for England. They do not integrate, and they have a thick streak of violence and fanaticism in their blood. As a (previous) immigrant myself, I cannot accept a lot of the remarks on this forum about us. Reason being, I found that while living in the UK, the English work ethic was very poor. They liked to complain a lot about this or that, but were very slow to get up off their backsides and do something about it. We experienced a lot of jealousy from our English neighbours as we had a much better house than them (in fact we had/have several houses). We also had new cars every so often. However we were always dumbfounded by their attitudes ! They could have the same, in fact they could have MORE, if they were only prepared to work hard and not scrounge off benefits! They had all the advantages and yet they took none of them ! ! ! We would take something simple like the concept of 'school', which our English neighbours took for granted, and we would squeeze every last advantage out of it, work as hard as we could, turn it to our advantage. And after school we would go and work in the family business for six hours, doing our homework between washing dishes and serving customers. We did that from nine years old, working like that. So I do not accept any kind of remarks from the British as I have seen firsthand that they are not willing to work as hard as we were. On the whole they want something for nothing and love to begrudge others who succeed. I think it's the same with the Poles. Very generalized post, with a lot of sweeping statements, but that is how I see things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 (edited) I've no problem with migration (whether inward or outward). p I hear a rumour that you're a Labour Party supporter pat? Are you a Marxist? I noticed that the CPGB’s has called the scrapping of all immigration controls. The more lowly paid the better huh - might help 'bring on' the revolution a bit quicker eh. Most are likely to vote Labour anyway - probably the only chance that you'll have to keep your vote up eh? And please cut out the foul language - you're lowering the tone. I think the Poles are a good thing for England. I think you can learn a lot from the Poles. They will invigorate your decaying society and teach you again what hard work, dedication and family mean. But I do not think they will stay for too long. Poland will be the next EU tiger, their economy is being stimulated by the remittances from Poles abroad and this money will be used for investment and growth. They will follow the same trajectory as Ireland in the past, which was also an exporter of immigrants (and the English didn't like them much, either as I recall. No Irish, no Blacks ?). I think the Romanians/ Bulgarians may not be so good for England, as the Roma will probably be the majority of immigrants from these lands. They are a difficult group to deal with and will probably abuse the country rather than contribute to it. The succession of poor governments in Poland contrast strangely with the Czech post-communist experience (though not perfect - I admit). Surely Polish society is decaying too - just take a look at the level of joblessness you have and the amount of corruption and mafia business control. Surely you should try and get your own house in order? We already have a strong Romany community here in the UK - several in my family - can't see the problem. Noticed a great deal of neo-nazi bile thrown at the Gypsies when I visited Slovakia recently - if they're treated as a criminal underclass, that is the role that they'll play. G Edited August 23, 2006 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 They will follow the same trajectory as Ireland in the past, which was also an exporter of immigrants I don't know if that is a good example some of their children became IRA terrorists. I also think that the Muslim immigrants are (on the whole), pretty bad for England. They do not integrate, and they have a thick streak of violence and fanaticism in their blood. No one can disagree with that. As a (previous) immigrant myself, I cannot accept a lot of the remarks on this forum about us. Reason being, I found that while living in the UK, the English work ethic was very poor. They liked to complain a lot about this or that, but were very slow to get up off their backsides and do something about it. We experienced a lot of jealousy from our English neighbours as we had a much better house than them (in fact we had/have several houses). We also had new cars every so often. However we were always dumbfounded by their attitudes ! They could have the same, in fact they could have MORE, if they were only prepared to work hard and not scrounge off benefits! They had all the advantages and yet they took none of them ! ! ! We would take something simple like the concept of 'school', which our English neighbours took for granted, and we would squeeze every last advantage out of it, work as hard as we could, turn it to our advantage. And after school we would go and work in the family business for six hours, doing our homework between washing dishes and serving customers. We did that from nine years old, working like that. That is not true for all English people ! Also believe me I know lots of immigrants who aim to live of benefits. There are also lots of ethnic minorities children who have that attitude to school - some were at my school. Although I agree with you a lot of remarks about immigrants are not fair. However the Government does not have a policy if only letting hard working honest immigrants stay here. In fact often they do the reverse. I know people who got housing from day one - and housing most English people could never afford. Also we don't deport criminals or if we do we let them back in. One other thing, however hard working immigrants are. We still have planning restrictions if we are going to have large scale immigration we need large scale house building. Where should do that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOD Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 No, I do not want Immigration to end. Some of the arguements given for ending it on here are ridiculous, some are fairly sensible. But I think the benefits out weigh the draw backs. I have competed with immigrants for jobs and have worked with them. I think it is funny that I should now feel sorry for builder, plumber, etc..etc that they are halving wages when for the last ten years I seem to remember all people ever complained about was the extortionate rate most of them charged. I work in Slough, I used to live here. I think the influx of Polish workers has improved the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuberider Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 We already have a strong Romany community here in the UK - several in my family - can't see the problem. Noticed a great deal of neo-nazi bile thrown at the Gypsies when I visited Slovakia recently - if they're treated as a criminal underclass, that is the role that they'll play. We could say the same for the muslims. Treat them like terrorists and they will blow up a tube train in an act of misguided self-fulfilling prophecy. fact of the matter is, that you take responsibility for your own actions, so let's not fall into the trap of avoiding the obvious for sake of good manners. Gypsies are generally very difficult people on the whole. They wander, scavange and do not contribute to the collective through paying taxes or engaging in worthwhile employment. While I agree with you that all cannot be painted with the same brush, the vast majority of them are problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOD Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 And that IS the problem isn't it? When those which care, are psychologically and proud to be British go, what are you left with? I have already made enquiries to leave the Uk (hopefully) no later than 2008. I do not want my young son being brought up in another potential Balkans. It just seemed like a childish bile filled rant to me. I like the way some British people are so proud of their country and being British but as soon as something happens that they don't like they run away to another country. I guess they will live there, won't intergrate and get marginalised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Wrong, FaTB. I'm the one who suggested that this subject be dropped. I've no problem with migration (whether inward or outward) and see no point in going on about it. I can't, though, just sit here and ignore the vile, uninformed puke that some people are pouring out of their gobs. And, whether deliberately or from ignorance, claim that that they're not racists. The fact is - THEY ARE! They start from the base that they don't want dirty foreigners to join us pure Aryans, then crawl around in the gutters to look for supporting 'evidence'. They find it in the fascist press. Every piece of this 'evidence' can easily be countered, for the simple reason that it's just racist tripe and lies! p So now I'm an Aryan fascist crawling around in the gutter! Utterly pathetic drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuberider Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I think the anger should be directed at your own kind, the English who live off benefits and are not prepared to work. There are many, many lazy scroungers in England, a terrific amount. They are a huge drain on the state and affect the standard of living for all of you. There is also this ingrained idea from the English, which I beleive comes from recent memory of having an empire, that they are somehow entitled to something more than others, that they are worth more and deserve a better life. They forget that they are unproductive, have huge trade imbalances and drive their economy mostly through consumption and speculation. Their days are numbered, much like those of America's, yet they will point the finger at the Polish plumber or cleaner and begrudge them the pittance they earn instead of examining their own actions and their crass overindulgence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#scoobydoo# Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 (edited) I think the anger should be directed at your own kind, the English who live off benefits and are not prepared to work. There are many, many lazy scroungers in England, a terrific amount. They are a huge drain on the state and affect the standard of living for all of you. There is also this ingrained idea from the English, which I beleive comes from recent memory of having an empire, that they are somehow entitled to something more than others, that they are worth more and deserve a better life. They forget that they are unproductive, have huge trade imbalances and drive their economy mostly through consumption and speculation. Their days are numbered, much like those of America's, yet they will point the finger at the Polish plumber or cleaner and begrudge them the pittance they earn instead of examining their own actions and their crass overindulgence. So please explain why we are the fifth richest country on this planet? Even though the country was bankrupted in 1945 at the end of the second world war in the dying days of the Empire! Could it be the grit and determination of the hardworking civilised majority outsmarting and outworking the majority of the rest of the world, of course it blo*dy is!!!! And yes we do deserve a better quality of life because the majority of us work our arses off to try and achieve it. You are a condesending racist 'at your own kind, the English' and by the way I am a fully integrated Scottish immigrant living quite happily within the English community working together to put the Great back in Britain. #scoobydoo# Edited August 23, 2006 by #scoobydoo# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuberider Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 So please explain why we are the fifth richest country on this planet? Even though the country was bankrupted in 1945 at the end of the second world war in the dying days of the Empire! Could it be the grit and determination of the hardworking civilised majority outsmarting and outworking the majority of the rest of the world, of course it blo*dy is!!!! #scoobydoo# The Bretton Woods era was very good for you dont forget. You were on the winning side, and always the poodle of the yanks, so you reaped the benefits. Much like now. But I think the future will be very different. If you want to see a real economy rise from the ruins, then look at Japan and Germany. And they weren't even on the winning side. The war left England mostly intact, apart from a few bombed out areas of London during the blitz. You never had to deal with total devastation like those other nations. Also you took in many immigrants who worked hard and rebuilt your country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#scoobydoo# Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 The Bretton Woods era was very good for you dont forget. You were on the winning side, and always the poodle of the yanks, so you reaped the benefits. Much like now. But I think the future will be very different. If you want to see a real economy rise from the ruins, then look at Japan and Germany. And they weren't even on the winning side. The war left England mostly intact, apart from a few bombed out areas of London during the blitz. You never had to deal with total devastation like those other nations. Also you took in many immigrants who worked hard and rebuilt your country Oh dear, who do you think let Japan and Germany redevelop their economies??? The USA, UK, France etc but on our terms and conditions, we still occupy parts of Germany and the Yanks still occupy parts of Japan so please don't make out they did it themselves! Only London was bombed in the Blitz? was your history teacher a member of the Gestapo? London, York, Portsmouth, Bristol, Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Nottingham, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Belfast, Hull, Liverpool, Paisley, Newcastle, Cardiff and many more major UK cities were bombed by the Nazi's, vast tracts of UK industry was laid waste too. The UK only finished paying it's war debts to the USA in 2005. Please educate yourself on the realities of the second world war... #scoobydoo# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuberider Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 so please don't make out they did it themselves! I love it - so they did nothing themselves, the Brave Brits saved the world and put the bread in all our mouths ! You had your day, now it's over. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#scoobydoo# Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 (edited) The Bretton Woods era was very good for you dont forget. You were on the winning side, and always the poodle of the yanks, so you reaped the benefits. Much like now. But I think the future will be very different. If you want to see a real economy rise from the ruins, then look at Japan and Germany. And they weren't even on the winning side. The war left England mostly intact, apart from a few bombed out areas of London during the blitz. You never had to deal with total devastation like those other nations. Also you took in many immigrants who worked hard and rebuilt your country Many of the immigrants that this country took in after the second world war are paying this kind gesture back by breeding a new generation of people that wish to kill us make us live under sharia law and impose their minority beliefs upon us. #scoobydoo# I love it - so they did nothing themselves, the Brave Brits saved the world and put the bread in all our mouths ! You had your day, now it's over. Get over it. You are thick, the sentence did not imply in anyway that we were 100% responsible for the successful rebuilding of these countries, yet your pompous attitude made you jump immediately to that conclusion. Get an education... #scoobydoo# Edited August 23, 2006 by #scoobydoo# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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