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Woud You Pay More For Home Energy Generation?

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Hi,

I've read lots of the post with interest and there seems to be a wide range of views on this site.

Wondered if any of you guys had an opinion about micro generation?

We have had a Solar Photovoltaic (PV) system fitted for four months now.

It will generate about 3000kwh each year, enough for our yearly need. (We have generated 1700kwh since 13th April)

Obviously we are protected from energy inflation.

The panels are guaranteed to produce the 3000kwh for 20 years. The inverter is guaranteed for 5 years (this converts DC to AC for domestic use)

After this there may be a slight reduction in generation.

The system will save about 1.4 tonnes of CO2 each year.

We can claim 3 ROCs each year ( worth about £30 each)

There is no maintenance.

OK this type of installation is very niche at the moment, but I would be interested in your views as to whether you think this would increase the value of the property and if so by how much. ( We are not thinking of moving!)

Also whether you think that installations such as this will be more prevalent in the future?

Thanks

More details at our website www.alternative-energy.co.uk

(Please note this is not a commercial website)

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I personally do think it would add value, although I wouldn't pay any more money for it if it was installed (you get me?). I.e. I would be more likely to purchase a property with these systems installed, but as long as they are easy maintenance and don't look awful.

I'd have to do more research first tho...

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Hi,

I've read lots of the post with interest and there seems to be a wide range of views on this site.

Wondered if any of you guys had an opinion about micro generation?

We have had a Solar Photovoltaic (PV) system fitted for four months now.

It will generate about 3000kwh each year, enough for our yearly need. (We have generated 1700kwh since 13th April)

Obviously we are protected from energy inflation.

The panels are guaranteed to produce the 3000kwh for 20 years. The inverter is guaranteed for 5 years (this converts DC to AC for domestic use)

After this there may be a slight reduction in generation.

The system will save about 1.4 tonnes of CO2 each year.

We can claim 3 ROCs each year ( worth about £30 each)

There is no maintenance.

OK this type of installation is very niche at the moment, but I would be interested in your views as to whether you think this would increase the value of the property and if so by how much. ( We are not thinking of moving!)

Also whether you think that installations such as this will be more prevalent in the future?

Thanks

More details at our website www.alternative-energy.co.uk

(Please note this is not a commercial website)

I believe this sort of system should be made mandatory on new builds, just like sound proofing, insulation etc

#scoobydoo#

:ph34r:

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I think its fantastic. Congrats on getting the system. Could you indicate the cost of the system and the inverter etc?

I think more and more people will get interested in these systems and whilst it might not add much to the value of your house, it will be a selling point and I'm sure people would be delighted with the prospect of no electricity bill each year! I know I would.

AFP

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"We can claim 3 ROCs each year"........doesn't sound like the right context for Return on Capital?

I found this http://www.greenenergyjobs.com/rocs.php

What are Renewable Obligation Certificates?

Renewable Obligation Certificates or ROCs for short is the name given to the digital certificates which holds details of exactly how a unit of electricity was made, by whom and finally who bought and used it. These ROCs are traded separately to the actual electricity itself and work as a bonus premium on top of the price paid for the unit.

Energy Companies are now being required to generate a minimum of 10% of their electricity output from sustainable sources. If they have not managed to produce the required amount of green energy themselves they must buy ROCs on the open market to make up the shortfall. If they fail to buy the required amount fines can be imposed.

ROCs are good news for renewable energy as they ensure a certain minimum percentage of Green Energy is produced nationally and provide the financial incentive to encourage generators to invest in Renewable Energy Schemes of their own.

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Hi

To answer your questions

A ROC is a Renewable Obligation Certificate its the way that the government incentivises the generation of renewable elecricity which is at present more expensive to generate than by fossil fuels. ROCs were designed for the bigger energy companies but it is now possible to claim the ROC entitlement on a domestic install as long as electricity is fed back into the grid and or used on site.

The system is 3.28kwp but has produced 4300watts when cold and sunny ( best conditions). However the wattage can range from 100 watts to 4000watts (though 2500 is a good average) The whole system cost £17k in total but we received a grant of £8.4k. (Never again will i get this kind of money from the government I'm sure).

The payback all depends on energy inflation. I have calculated that if energy inflation is 6% each year it will pay back in just short of 16 years. ... Ok not the best return but the installation ticks many boxes: environmental as well as energy security for the future. The system should keep going for very many years. Another important point is that if no-one jumps on and installs these things then the market will never develop. For us spending £8.6 k on a system giving us free energy for life was better than forking out £150k for a larger house ( one more bedroom and a garage) plus the associated stamp duty, conveyancy etc, etc. (Or buying a cheap new car)

There is no maintenance, the panels self clean as the glass surface is pitted to allow rain water to get under any stain ( bird sh1t) etc.

I have posted pics on my website if you're interested

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Hi

To answer your questions

A ROC is a Renewable Obligation Certificate its the way that the government incentivises the generation of renewable elecricity which is at present more expensive to generate than by fossil fuels. ROCs were designed for the bigger energy companies but it is now possible to claim the ROC entitlement on a domestic install as long as electricity is fed back into the grid and or used on site.

The system is 3.28kwp but has produced 4300watts when cold and sunny ( best conditions). However the wattage can range from 100 watts to 4000watts (though 2500 is a good average) The whole system cost £17k in total but we received a grant of £8.4k. (Never again will i get this kind of money from the government I'm sure).

The payback all depends on energy inflation. I have calculated that if energy inflation is 6% each year it will pay back in just short of 16 years. ... Ok not the best return but the installation ticks many boxes: environmental as well as energy security for the future. The system should keep going for very many years. Another important point is that if no-one jumps on and installs these things then the market will never develop. For us spending £8.6 k on a system giving us free energy for life was better than forking out £150k for a larger house ( one more bedroom and a garage) plus the associated stamp duty, conveyancy etc, etc. (Or buying a cheap new car)

There is no maintenance, the panels self clean as the glass surface is pitted to allow rain water to get under any stain ( bird sh1t) etc.

I have posted pics on my website if you're interested

That's cool. Are the PV sheets insured against a tornado ripping them off the roof etc etc?

AFP

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Would love to have solar panels in a property as energy bills are going to increase with peak oil. Buying a property with this kind of system already installed is a huge advantage as you know your running cots are going to be low.

I suppose the question is - If 2 properties were on the market which were identical other than one of them having such a solar system how much more would you pay for the one with the solar panels? I suspect it could be up to £10k for me as the psychological freedom of knowing you have your own power plus the ethics of it are very attractive.

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Would love to have solar panels in a property as energy bills are going to increase with peak oil.

Peak oil was a consideration for us as well. We have spent quite sometime insulatiing our house, fitted secondary double glazing over the sashes and also have an open fire and a wood burner.

Ok if the peak oils thing never happens we still will be living a lower CO2 lifestyle which can only be a good thing.

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Would love to have solar panels in a property as energy bills are going to increase with peak oil. Buying a property with this kind of system already installed is a huge advantage as you know your running cots are going to be low.

I suppose the question is - If 2 properties were on the market which were identical other than one of them having such a solar system how much more would you pay for the one with the solar panels? I suspect it could be up to £10k for me as the psychological freedom of knowing you have your own power plus the ethics of it are very attractive.

To get a grant it has to be ongrid and then when the grid is down so are you.

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That's cool. Are the PV sheets insured against a tornado ripping them off the roof etc etc?

The panels are insured as part of the building insurance.

Have they recently relaxed planning rules?

The planning is fairly straight forward; they are regarded as 'permitted development' as long as not in conservation area or a listed building. This is different to wind turbines that still need full planning permission ( for now anyway)

To get a grant it has to be ongrid and then when the grid is down so are you.

Yes you are right here, but this can be overridden if you really have to... the installers don't tell you this (although it is bit naughty and i havent done it)

I think you can still get grants for off grid but you need lots of batteries. I reckon this is better for more rural locations. However you cant claim ROCs (which seems a bit unfair)

On grid / Off grid is a bit of a dilemma :blink:

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Is it possible to work out how much the government would be losing in tax on these new systems and then have a honesty account whereby those how have converted can continue to contribute to the tax system?.

I know many many people on this board would be very upset if they had bypassed paying their dues in supporting public services in the form of taxation.

I suppose it could be taxed per Kilowatt Generated ?.

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Is it possible to work out how much the government would be losing in tax on these new systems and then have a honesty account whereby those how have converted can continue to contribute to the tax system?.

I know many many people on this board would be very upset if they had bypassed paying their dues in supporting public services in the form of taxation.

I suppose it could be taxed per Kilowatt Generated ?.

I think most people would regard that as a little mean spirited....Perhaps would would like people who heat up their water using the power of the sun to pay tax as well?.... but OK If non renewable energies were taxed heavily and the renewables taxed favourably at say a ratio of 20:1

Veg oil in your diesel car anyone? ;)

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Hi alternative-energy – you might like to take a look at GEI as well - there are quite a few over there with an interest in renewable energy that also on post here. :)

I was also wondering how many square meters of panels, area conversion efficiency, peak summer irradiance, panel costs, and so on. I looked at this last year, but it would be interesting to see more recent figures, especially as you seem to have some instrumentation on your setup. It looks very interesting.

Edited by spline

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in a word, YES, but i would rather pay less :P

is there a low cost option, self instalation second hand panels?

How much did the inverter cost?

Are you still connected to the grid?

What happens when there is too much sun/not enough sun?

Do you sell/send electricity back onto to the grid?

what do you think about systems for heating water?

Edited by moosetea

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My main concern with investing in one of these systems,

is the batteries, which as far I'm aware have quite a limited

life-span and are very expensive to replace.

Plus the other problem is that I don't actually have my own place,

so it would be impractical from that standpoint too.

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My main concern with investing in one of these systems,

is the batteries, which as far I'm aware have quite a limited

life-span and are very expensive to replace.

For an on grid system you dont need batteries you are wired up to the mains. You generate during the day and export excess to the grid which you get paid for. In the evening and night you import from the grid. Its then a simple calculation between the two.

is there a low cost option, self instalation second hand panels?

How much did the inverter cost?

Are you still connected to the grid?

What happens when there is too much sun/not enough sun?

Do you sell/send electricity back onto to the grid?

what do you think about systems for heating water?

You can buy second hand panels if your lucky and self install i suppose but then you don't get the grant which is about 50%. I think our inverter ( if you had to buy it separately) is about £500

When there's too little sun you import. When there's full sun you generate more... its that simple

I think solar thermal systems ( Hot water) are great, however we could not have one because we have a combi boiler and no space to install a cylinder and a water tank.

I was also wondering how many square meters of panels, area conversion efficiency, peak summer irradiance, panel costs, and so on. I looked at this last year, but it would be interesting to see more recent figures, especially as you seem to have some instrumentation on your setup. It looks very interesting.

Sorry i dont have all that info.

I live in South East so quite sunny

The panels are rated at 205 watts ( but we have produced over 4300watts at times when cold and sunny)

 Each panel is 798mm x 1570mm x 35mm

 Overall size of the 16 panel solar PV system is 20m2

 Load per unit area is 15.9kg/m2

Total system cost on previous post

Hope that helps...

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