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Eric S Doms

South African Property Investing...

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Hi Members :D

I just wanted to know if any of you have considered investing in the South African property market? As you might know, the market there has been the fastest growing in the world for the past 2 years(even though the interest rates have increased vey slightly of late), and with the World Cup Soccer being held in 2010, I think that the prospects are very favourable.

I would appreciate some feedback on what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks

Eric

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25,000 reported murders per annum

50,000 reported rapes per annum

5 million pepole with HIV/AIDS and a government in denial

The Rand is a Mick Mouse currency.

The government is going to introduce a ban on current builders/owners selling their property to non South Africans

Mugaby has wrecked Zimbabway's economy, the South African leadership support him unquestioningly

South Africa will never be able to deliver to the expectations of the tens of millions of people who want homes and jobs.

Looks like big trouble ahead.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

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Those are interesting figures Mr Silver/Lead........ :o

But I do have to ask, Have you ever been to South Africa? :huh:

25,000 reported murders per annum

50,000 reported rapes per annum

5 million pepole with HIV/AIDS and a government in denial

The Rand is a Mick Mouse currency.

The government is going to introduce a ban on current builders/owners selling their property to non South Africans

Mugaby has wrecked Zimbabway's economy, the South African leadership support him unquestioningly

South Africa will never be able to deliver to the expectations of the tens of millions of people who want homes and jobs.

Looks like big trouble ahead.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

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Yes my J'burg, The Cape and the coast to Durban. My friend moved there 26 years ago with his young family. He recently sold his land/house in the north, bought for 50k 18 years ago sold for 50k last year. It was too dangerous to stay any more. They had a house built in the Cape overlooking Table Mountain, stunning views. They have dogs, video, barbed wire, guns and electic gates. There is a mass exodus of wealth south to the cape. They would come back to UK but can't afford it.

good luck and canvass other opinions.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

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Mr Silver/Lead...

You say that 'your friend' lived in SA. How can you form an opinion on a country which you haven't even been too?

South Africa is the lighthouse of Africa, and you will see that the best Soccer World Cup will be held in 2010,which will in turn be the start of the African Renaissance.

Please form opinions on something that you have 1st hand expererience of.....than try and give an opinion to 'sound like you know what you are talking about'.

Yes my J'burg, The Cape and the coast to Durban. My friend moved there 26 years ago with his young family. He recently sold his land/house in the north, bought for 50k 18 years ago sold for 50k last year. It was too dangerous to stay any more. They had a house built in the Cape overlooking Table Mountain, stunning views. They have dogs, video, barbed wire, guns and electic gates. There is a mass exodus of wealth south to the cape. They would come back to UK but can't afford it.

good luck and canvass other opinions.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

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Been there 3 times once on business + rugby.

Twice as tourist.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

You asked for opinions of prospects for property investment. Mine is it is hugely risky and price are going to fall massively, you seem to have a different opinion.

Good luck.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

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I guess you are entitled to your own opinion, even though I don't agree with it :blink: But I really do appreciate your feedback Mr Silver :D

I think SA has NOT YET fulfilled its true potential by a LONG shot, and it would just need a spark to light the flame..........a spark such as Soccer Wolrd Cup 2010 :D

Any other members have an opinion on the SA Property Market??

Been there 3 times once on business + rugby.

Twice as tourist.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

You asked for opinions of prospects for property investment. Mine is it is hugely risky and price are going to fall massively, you seem to have a different opinion.

Good luck.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

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Eric

don't get me wrong no one would be more happy than me to see post apartheid SA deliver all the hope, promise and expectation that it would become the engine for growth, prosperity and modernisation to the southern part of the African continent. I just have great fears. Good luck.

Pablo Silver or Lead?

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Any other members have an opinion on the SA Property Market??

Ive been there 3 times in the last 6 months on biz (Durban). Only mixed with whites due to work limitations. Odd place. The South African I met are great. Cross between Brits and Aussies. Cheerful beer monsters who like hard work and barbecues but don't have the big chip on their shoulder. I generalise of course.

Huge luxorious houses with views, pools, maids etc to be had for 250K. They also have barbed wire electrified fences, freeway shootings, muggings, and under no circumstances do you want to walk around the city at night or leave nice things in your car. Colleagues even in my small circle have been mugged(2), robbed(4), burgled(1), shot(2).

If that doesnt do your head in then the crushing poverty most folks live in will. My first trip from Durban airport to the hotel... Well, imagine the M25 with slums each side as far as the eye can see. No sniggering at the back about Enfield!

Food and drink very cheap, labour too. Unbeleivable steaks!

I think you would need to be from there. I am from Liverpool, not some comfy Oxon village and for me it was a total culture shock. More than the USA or Aus. Now if a scouser thinks it's funky then it GOT to be funky.

So I think there is limited appeal to go there unless you are already from ZA. And if you are from ZA you already know the ropes. I would be _extremely_ cautious going there hoping to make a buck out of people who come for the world cup and fall in love with the place for example.

If you get a job out there then by all means buy and enjoy otherwise be very careful.

Good luck.

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Adren

Some good points there.

I think what you also have to realise is that SA is in a transition phase, which will not appear overnight. Even though the country is 12 years into Post-Apartheid South African, there are discrepancies that need to be addressed.

Ive been there 3 times in the last 6 months on biz (Durban). Only mixed with whites due to work limitations. Odd place. The South African I met are great. Cross between Brits and Aussies. Cheerful beer monsters who like hard work and barbecues but don't have the big chip on their shoulder. I generalise of course.

Huge luxorious houses with views, pools, maids etc to be had for 250K. They also have barbed wire electrified fences, freeway shootings, muggings, and under no circumstances do you want to walk around the city at night or leave nice things in your car. Colleagues even in my small circle have been mugged(2), robbed(4), burgled(1), shot(2).

If that doesnt do your head in then the crushing poverty most folks live in will. My first trip from Durban airport to the hotel... Well, imagine the M25 with slums each side as far as the eye can see. No sniggering at the back about Enfield!

Food and drink very cheap, labour too. Unbeleivable steaks!

I think you would need to be from there. I am from Liverpool, not some comfy Oxon village and for me it was a total culture shock. More than the USA or Aus. Now if a scouser thinks it's funky then it GOT to be funky.

So I think there is limited appeal to go there unless you are already from ZA. And if you are from ZA you already know the ropes. I would be _extremely_ cautious going there hoping to make a buck out of people who come for the world cup and fall in love with the place for example.

If you get a job out there then by all means buy and enjoy otherwise be very careful.

Good luck.

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Adren

Some good points there.

I think what you also have to realise is that SA is in a transition phase, which will not appear overnight. Even though the country is 12 years into Post-Apartheid South African, there are discrepancies that need to be addressed.

Hi

I see your point.

It depends on your timescales. If I had a time machine that could take me there in X years once the social problems are sorted out, I would move there in a cold minute and so would many others and there's your business opportunity.

The question is "what is X years". If we knew that we'd all be rich!

The place definitely has great things going for it. Deep red earth with loads of stuff growing out of it everywhere you look, weather, sea, country, sports etc. Like I said, go for it in principle but do for heavens sake be careful. You will be a long way from home if it goes the way of the pear.

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So I think that it would be safe to say that it depends on your 'Risk Profile' B)

Which brings me to another question, If you had no wife and no kids to support, What would your risk profile be?? Keep it conservative, or shoot for the Stars?? <_<

Edited by Eric S Doms

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Here's my 2p worth:

I think any money in the SA property market has already been made.

It's another huge bubble waiting to pop. My parents bought a house (Detached 5 Beds, 3 acre garden, pool, with river frontage) out there in 1975 for the equivalent of £8k. They had it valued in 2001 for £75k and sold it recently for £200k before moving back to the UK.

Crime stats are as bad as they say - my Dad was mugged whilst drawing money from a cash point in a busy town in broad daylight. Most of their friends had been burgled too.

Don't get me wrong though - SA is superb for holidays - I don't think I would ever live there again though.

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So I think that it would be safe to say that it depends on your 'Risk Profile' B)

Which brings me to another question, If you had no wife and no kids to support, What would your risk profile be?? Keep it conservative, or shoot for the Stars?? <_<

Myself, PabloSilver and blondebier have taken time out of our day to help you with honest, constructive and balanced feedback. We all seem to be of the opinion it is a dangerous proposition.

The sentiment is clearly in dissonance with your expectations, which is fair enough. However, your response has therefore been to attack our credentials or perspectives.

I would conclude that your mind is already made up and you really don't want further input.

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Adren

As this is a discussion forum, and some views may differ from others, it is only natural for me to question your reasoning. And I 'apologise' that I have 'wasted your time when my mind was made up already'.

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adren,

Spot on.

I am of the view that the vast majority of people, when they ask for advice (in anything, not just property) don't actually want advice; what they seek is confirmation that what they have decided to do is the right thing.

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Myself, PabloSilver and blondebier have taken time out of our day to help you with honest, constructive and balanced feedback. We all seem to be of the opinion it is a dangerous proposition.

The sentiment is clearly in dissonance with your expectations, which is fair enough. However, your response has therefore been to attack our credentials or perspectives.

I would conclude that your mind is already made up and you really don't want further input.

I go to SA aprox 3 times a year

My advice would be to wait for the property bubble to burst, then buy

Then if you take a longer term view (say 10 years) and allow for the possibilty of walking away/selling cheap if the government follows Zim

Crime is pretty bad from a statistical POV, but sensible precautions can minimise the risk

On the positive side Crime keeps the beer prices down!

If it wasn't for the crime and the poverty that aflicts SA, IMO its would be the best country in the world to live in

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      • down 5% +
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