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The Real Unemployment Figure In Britain Today

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Remember kiddies that unemployment is only just starting to rise from its lows.

The real unemployment figure in Britain today

http://thebusinessonline.com/Stories.aspx?...2E-D07EB5AA1CEE

The Chancellor has never been honest about the true nature of British joblessness. Now he has been rumbled'

THE number of people claiming out-of-work benefits in Britain has hit 5.29m, more than three times as many as are officially unemployed, according to an analysis of government statistics obtained by The Business this weekend. The figure exposes for the first time the true extent of welfare dependency in Britain under Chancellor Gordon Brown and paints a picture of a society in deep crisis.

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For a start - bump! Then......

"Since Labour came to power, the number being declared entitled to incapacity benefit because they are alcoholics has shot up 66% to 48,620 from November 1997 to November last year. Those declared eligible because they are drug addicts has risen by 35%, to 32,100 over the same timeframe. The largest single growth area has been in a condition known as “disorder of scholastic skills” – up 219% to 42,460 cases last November. Those who qualify for incapacity benefit due to an “unspecified mood disorder” are up 78% at 5,700."

Britain a nation of skivers exposed!

WTF is "disorder of scholastic skills" - is it what I call "thick"?

Alcoholics claiming incapacity benefit up 66% since labour came to power!!!

No wonder it's so hard to get on in Britain. There's such a massive deadweight of spongers on the backs of the few that are still working (and paying tax).

This is one of the most depressing things I've read for a long time.

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Guest AuntJess

For a start - bump! Then......

"Since Labour came to power, the number being declared entitled to incapacity benefit because they are alcoholics has shot up 66% to 48,620 from November 1997 to November last year. Those declared eligible because they are drug addicts has risen by 35%, to 32,100 over the same timeframe. The largest single growth area has been in a condition known as “disorder of scholastic skills” – up 219% to 42,460 cases last November. Those who qualify for incapacity benefit due to an “unspecified mood disorder” are up 78% at 5,700."

Britain a nation of skivers exposed!

WTF is "disorder of scholastic skills" - is it what I call "thick"?

Alcoholics claiming incapacity benefit up 66% since labour came to power!!!

No wonder it's so hard to get on in Britain. There's such a massive deadweight of spongers on the backs of the few that are still working (and paying tax).

This is one of the most depressing things I've read for a long time.

I agree. I can't help wondering why - in this day of soaring A level passes - that disorders of scholastic skills levels are rising. Something does not quite add up here. ;)

Also how do we know which sources to trust, as there is so much contradiction in these figures?

Does anyone else think that we have so many free-loaders maybe because we - as a nation - are too easy going, too indolent to get our dander up and protest - loudly and frequently?

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This shouldn't really come as a shock - this Goverment has been a superb 'smoke and mirrors' PR machine

Problem with this is that generally hiding the real figures across the board has made the rich richer (more aware) and the poor poorer (less aware) - is that really what they set out to do?

PS - unemployment has also been driven down by 'education expansion'

Edited by dnd

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"Since Labour came to power, the number being declared entitled to incapacity benefit because they are alcoholics has shot up 66% to 48,620 from November 1997 to November last year.

So I can get benefits for sitting in the pub all day? Right sod work, sign me up!

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Guest AuntJess

This shouldn't really come as a shock - this Goverment has been a superb 'smoke and mirrors' PR machine

Problem with this is that generally hiding the real figures across the board has made the rich richer (more aware) and the poor poorer (less aware) - is that really what they set out to do?

PS - unemployment has also been driven down by 'education expansion'

I totally agree. This has been responsible for the "dumbing down" of some courses, at College and University. I hear that we need more science students to keep " in the swim" as regards our status in the world. I wonder why more people don't take up science subjects? What is it about our culture that shrinks away from " sums" ;) at school and science at all levels? :(

Edited by AuntJess

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I thought "back trouble " was the favourite as it is very difficult to detect if someone is at it !!.

Edited by faloos

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cough cough, im actually recieving incapacity benefits and no im not skiving, im on them for a number of mental health related issues i have which make work life very difficult so im unable to hold down a job, not all of us sit in the pub all day, most of us like myself want to get back into work, im on council tax benefit, housing benefit, dla benefit and incapacity benefit, and im ENTITLED to it, ive gone through the proper channels and filled out every form truthfully, doctors etc have signed and filled in their sections on the dla and incapacity forms, so i think some of you need to realise that not all are spongers and that these benefits are there for a reason

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cough cough, im actually recieving incapacity benefits and no im not skiving, im on them for a number of mental health related issues i have which make work life very difficult so im unable to hold down a job, not all of us sit in the pub all day, most of us like myself want to get back into work, im on council tax benefit, housing benefit, dla benefit and incapacity benefit, and im ENTITLED to it, ive gone through the proper channels and filled out every form truthfully, doctors etc have signed and filled in their sections on the dla and incapacity forms, so i think some of you need to realise that not all are spongers and that these benefits are there for a reason

Go on BB and win £100K :lol:

sorry if that's out of taste but BB is suitable for anyone who is not quite all there.

It's encouraging this ill health issue and sensationalising it.

I hope you get it sorted Penguin.

IMHO, many of todays youth inc. me are fu$$ed through the Capitalist system that pushes us down and kills others needlessly without fair and honest reporting.

Propaganda can certainly make one feel their mad, however in the world of the mad the insane are normal. I hope that helps, it does me. As many on this site walk this world with their eyes closed. It's nice also that many here have opened them as well and tell it how it is and ask fair questions for fair subject matter.

Edited by music man

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You know there are so many jobs that really need doing in our country that an army of five million people could fulfil:

picking litter

cleaning off graffity

digging flower beds on patches of waste land

digging flower beds so you don't have to have an ugly sponsorship board spoiling it

restoring old historic buildings

repairing dry stone walls

helping old people with shopping, cleaning and gardening

organising meetings for the eldery and those unable to get out on their own

In that list there will be something that almost everyone can do however ill they are. I believe in return for benefits you should have to do 15 hours a week on one of these. When I was unemployed it's exactly what I would have wanted.

(sorry for the diversion, back to the main issue..)

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Go on BB and win £100K :lol:

I don't know if you intended that as a joke, but one contestant on Big Brother was on incapacity benefit. He also had a council house and never worked in his adult life. That was the sponger Shabaz. He also said to other contestants "don't bite the hand that feeds you" when dishing out the food. :lol:

(I didn't watch BB by the way, I read about this)

---------

Another anecdote:

I was told at work a few weeks ago how a single mums daughter is very bored during the summer holidays. Apparantly she wants her mum to go onto benefits so they can spend the summer together like all the other single mums down the road.

High ambitions then... (Oh, and I applaud that she is working)

-----------

Oh, and this article is no surprise to me. It just sickens me how this government acts like everything is fine. Debunks the myth about high joblessness in previous cycles...

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You know there are so many jobs that really need doing in our country that an army of five million people could fulfil:

picking litter

cleaning off graffity

digging flower beds on patches of waste land

digging flower beds so you don't have to have an ugly sponsorship board spoiling it

restoring old historic buildings

repairing dry stone walls

helping old people with shopping, cleaning and gardening

organising meetings for the eldery and those unable to get out on their own

In that list there will be something that almost everyone can do however ill they are. I believe in return for benefits you should have to do 15 hours a week on one of these. When I was unemployed it's exactly what I would have wanted.

(sorry for the diversion, back to the main issue..)

If you did compel the unemployed to do these jobs, you'd upset somebody else (like skilled dry-stone wallers and old building restorers). Why not ask, given that your suggestion is so obvious, why it doesn't happen like this?

The truth is that while there is demand for these things to be done, it isn't effective demand, that is, demand backed by money. Hence they don't get done. If the money was forthcoming it would have to come out of taxation, and that isn't going to happen. And forcing the unemployed to do these will, in some cases, displace groups already doing these jobs. I bet you'd get howls of outrage if you suggested raising income tax by 2% to pay for travel, tools, equipment etc to enable the unemployed to do these jobs. Why not increase council tax by 2% and employ some street cleaners? Well, why not?

Face it, it is easier and cheaper for the govt to keep these people unemployed. And they aren't down the pub as they can't afford it. This is simply the fall-out from an "efficient" market economy. An inefficient one generates jobs by over-manning in nationalised industries, as in many Communist countries - do you want to go back to that? We don't need these peoples' output. If we did, it would get paid for and economic activity and GDP would increase. Under current accounting practcies what you're suggesting doesn't figure in accounts and GDP, so it is actually a drain on the economy. An answer is to change accounting standards, but that involves old-fashioned "inefficiency" - like cleaning hospital wards properly. There are good reasons for why we are where we are, ie why all these people are economically inactive.

Time we addressed this properly and started preparing people to lead interesting, challenging low environmental impact lives, rather than desperately trying to ramp up output with all its associated costs.

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So why do we need all these eastern european migrants? If there is a lack of workers wouldn't the market naturally tap into the spare capacity of UK workers?

Or, are these migrants attractive workers as they make UK business more competitive by demanding lower wages- wages that don't have to factor in long term housing in the UK as they hit and run- earn and go home. In the long term this can't be healthy can it? How can the domestic housing market keep rising if jobs are taken up by people who won't spend in it? A Pole working for minimum wage isn't going to afford a 150grand flat anymore than a Brit on minimum wage- or am I missing something?

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If you did compel the unemployed to do these jobs, you'd upset somebody else (like skilled dry-stone wallers and old building restorers). Why not ask, given that your suggestion is so obvious, why it doesn't happen like this?

The truth is that while there is demand for these things to be done, it isn't effective demand, that is, demand backed by money. Hence they don't get done. If the money was forthcoming it would have to come out of taxation, and that isn't going to happen. And forcing the unemployed to do these will, in some cases, displace groups already doing these jobs. I bet you'd get howls of outrage if you suggested raising income tax by 2% to pay for travel, tools, equipment etc to enable the unemployed to do these jobs. Why not increase council tax by 2% and employ some street cleaners? Well, why not?

Face it, it is easier and cheaper for the govt to keep these people unemployed. And they aren't down the pub as they can't afford it. This is simply the fall-out from an "efficient" market economy. An inefficient one generates jobs by over-manning in nationalised industries, as in many Communist countries - do you want to go back to that? We don't need these peoples' output. If we did, it would get paid for and economic activity and GDP would increase. Under current accounting practcies what you're suggesting doesn't figure in accounts and GDP, so it is actually a drain on the economy. An answer is to change accounting standards, but that involves old-fashioned "inefficiency" - like cleaning hospital wards properly. There are good reasons for why we are where we are, ie why all these people are economically inactive.

Time we addressed this properly and started preparing people to lead interesting, challenging low environmental impact lives, rather than desperately trying to ramp up output with all its associated costs.

I don't think it would upset many people because the suggestions I made are in areas that are currently under-staffed ie. there are a few street cleaners but the country is sitll a shithole. And whilst it would cost a little extra to organise all this work, my point is that the unemployed are being paid at the moment so it wouldn't be very much more. I think it would make great value for money.

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I don't think it would upset many people because the suggestions I made are in areas that are currently under-staffed ie. there are a few street cleaners but the country is sitll a shithole. And whilst it would cost a little extra to organise all this work, my point is that the unemployed are being paid at the moment so it wouldn't be very much more. I think it would make great value for money.

I agree. Munro you mention 'low-environmental impact lives'. If the unemployed were made to plant trees, the trees would help soak up CO2 emissions, improve the look of the environment and lower obesity rates in that group. It might give some of them a sense of self-worth too.

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So why do we need all these eastern european migrants? If there is a lack of workers wouldn't the market naturally tap into the spare capacity of UK workers?

Or, are these migrants attractive workers as they make UK business more competitive by demanding lower wages- wages that don't have to factor in long term housing in the UK as they hit and run- earn and go home. In the long term this can't be healthy can it? How can the domestic housing market keep rising if jobs are taken up by people who won't spend in it? A Pole working for minimum wage isn't going to afford a 150grand flat anymore than a Brit on minimum wage- or am I missing something?

I don't think you are missing anything.

Long term drain of money out of the UK economy. The companies that can really make out like bandits are lets say the ones that run on the fringes of legality, further deteriorating the finances of the companeis that do play by the rules. The is a big mismatch between the known number of migrant workers (via NI) and the estiamtes, even those with allocated NI numbers may or may not work inside the tax system. To compete a lot of UK domiciled workes will have join the untaxed sector to give up.

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I agree. Munro you mention 'low-environmental impact lives'. If the unemployed were made to plant trees, the trees would help soak up CO2 emissions, improve the look of the environment and lower obesity rates in that group. It might give some of them a sense of self-worth too.

Interesting point. But how much more money would that cost than just leaving them where they are? How many more government jobs would it create?

Somewhat tenuous.. but my girlfriend is currently writing an essay on ‘Gardening: the positive effects to well-being.’ for her OT course. She hasn't covered the positive effects to lazy ar$es.

I'm not implying that everyone who is out of work is a lazy ar$e. But there will be a few work shys out there.

Edited by tentboy

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You guys are fighting the last war. Work was regarded as morally valuable by the Protestants, particularly the Calvinists, after their schism from the Catholic church. It came to be seen as a path to salvation - to an afterlife in heaven rather than burning in hell. And up until not that long ago, work did matter because output was genuinely needed. Shelter needed to be provided and crops sowed and harvested; every man, woman and child out in the fields for the harvest. But this simply doesn't apply any more. We can produce far more than we actually need with a fraction of the population working. Hence a consumer society, to make work. Yes, literally - to make work, with people producing things that aren't needed to sell to people who don't need them. To keep the whole thing going.

Now we've brought a consumer society to such a pitch that we're burning through fossil fuels that took millenia to create and damaging the environment we live in. And you guys still hark back to work as a moral imperative? It's surprising Gordon Brown gets such a bad press here, when he's a good old-fashioned son of the manse hell and brimfire Calvinist proponent of the work ethic. Going to be fascinating to see how Cameron's Conservatives go for the green vote while hanging onto the big business lobby.

As for house prices - as global warming will put large swathes of East Anglia, and the new Thames Gateway developments, under water, there'll be lots of opportunities building houses in the West Country. Would put a winking smilie here but it just doesn't want to happen...

Edited by munro

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Interesting point. But how much more money would that cost than just leaving them where they are? How many more government jobs would it create?

Somewhat tenuous.. but my girlfriend is currently writing an essay on ‘Gardening: the positive effects to well-being.’ for her OT course. She hasn't covered the positive effects to lazy ar$es.

I'm not implying that everyone who is out of work is a lazy ar$e. But there will be a few work shys out there.

I feel that a lot of us, although we don't know it, would rather be living off the land, gardening...getting dirt under our fingernails. I'd much rather work the land than my keyboard in order to eek a living, but it ain't gonna happen in this county.

A lot of people out of work are not lazy... they're just resigned to the lack of opportunity out there. It's a crying shame.

There is so much potentiial to improve the lot of so many people... but it will never happen - c'est la vie.

Too much negativity. Stay put or vote with your feet...that's the choice.

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"Since Labour came to power, the number being declared entitled to incapacity benefit because they are alcoholics has shot up 66% to 48,620 from November 1997 to November last year. Those declared eligible because they are drug addicts has risen by 35%, to 32,100 over the same timeframe.

Am I the only person who thinks there's a much more appalling reason for these figures than merely a rise in sponging? (Those of you who remain on this site are such a bunch of knee-jerk fascists).

Could it, just could it, be that Blair's and Brown's policies have led so many into complete despair that thousands have turned to alcohol and drugs over the past few years to deaden the reality of life. For me, living in Britain has never been so vile - watching a Labour government create, with the help of its master, Big Business, a society in which the gap between rich and poor hasn't been so wide since Dickens's day.

Edited by dalek

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I feel that a lot of us, although we don't know it, would rather be living off the land, gardening...getting dirt under our fingernails. I'd much rather work the land than my keyboard in order to eek a living, but it ain't gonna happen in this county.

A lot of people out of work are not lazy... they're just resigned to the lack of opportunity out there. It's a crying shame.

There is so much potentiial to improve the lot of so many people... but it will never happen - c'est la vie.

Too much negativity. Stay put or vote with your feet...that's the choice.

i agree i have a degree etc but cant find the opportunity i just keep going round and round

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So with the real rate of unemployment being so high will Nu Labour still insist on flooding the place with immigrants to keep wages down or will they spin the crap about only allowing in well educated immigrants because we already have lot’s of our own well educated students looking for jobs.

Edited by Justice

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Am I the only person who thinks there's a much more appalling reason for these figures than merely a rise in sponging? (Those of you who remain on this site are such a bunch of knee-jerk fascists).

Could it, just could it, be that Blair's and Brown's policies have led so many into complete despair that thousands have turned to alcohol and drugs over the past few years to deaden the reality of life. For me, living in Britain has never been so vile - watching a Labour government create, with the help of its master, Big Business, a society in which the gap between rich and poor hasn't been so wide since Dickens's day.

No, you're not the only one...and mine's a large G&T and a toast to the damnation of those utter w&nkers Blair and Brown.

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Could it, just could it, be that Blair's and Brown's policies have led so many into complete despair that thousands have turned to alcohol and drugs over the past few years to deaden the reality of life. For me, living in Britain has never been so vile - watching a Labour government create, with the help of its master, Big Business, a society in which the gap between rich and poor hasn't been so wide since Dickens's day.

Don't rate your theory much at all. The Thatcher years were deeply depressing. If ever there were a government to drive the nation to drink it was the Tories under Thatcher.

Its been party time since Tony got in, but the hour is getting late and people are slipping away into the night as the punchbowl is being taken away soon.

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  • 337 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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