Realistbear Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Well if they saved a deposit, and also realised that FTBs traditionally live in FTB-type propertries, rather than average type properties... £50k in just about any other country would buy a decent lifestyle not a hideous new-build box in an overcrowded area with a miserable and expensive commute to a job that is here today and likely to be gone tomorrow as the Miracle Economy sheds more and more jobs. No wonder young skilled people are moving overseas or are justing saying no and remain renting. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) and also realised that FTBs traditionally live in FTB-type propertries, rather than average type properties Since when? Most of my friends and relatives who have bought anywhere bought 'average type properties' as FTBs, usually in their mid to late 20s. So much so that I really don't understand where this 'property ladder' idea comes from. Edited August 14, 2006 by MarkG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenroom Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I recruit these IT programmer and business analyst bods for the investment banks and asset managers and they're ok. It's the muppets that work for the Cap Geminis and Accentures of this world that are the real muppets. They job hop like mad and mostly for, like, an extra 3 grand. The Nigerians are the worst with their Computer Science degrees from University of Lagos which can be bought for £50 on any street corner over there. LOL !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_duke_of_hazzard Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I recruit these IT programmer and business analyst bods for the investment banks and asset managers and they're ok. It's the muppets that work for the Cap Geminis and Accentures of this world that are the real muppets. They job hop like mad and mostly for, like, an extra 3 grand. The Nigerians are the worst with their Computer Science degrees from University of Lagos which can be bought for £50 on any street corner over there. LOL !! Is your recruitment specialised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhpcza Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Unemployment is probably up across the board, not just graduates. I'm going on how hard I've found it to get a job (and my job is very basic and minimal pay). My girlfriend has also found it fairly difficult (she's a graduate), though after applying for 1000 menial jobs, she's managed to find employment. Employment agencies aren't falling over themselves to offer people work either. A lot of people out there looking for the same, crappy jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faloos Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Unemployment is probably up across the board, not just graduates. I'm going on how hard I've found it to get a job (and my job is very basic and minimal pay). My girlfriend has also found it fairly difficult (she's a graduate), though after applying for 1000 menial jobs, she's managed to find employment. Employment agencies aren't falling over themselves to offer people work either. A lot of people out there looking for the same, crappy jobs. Crappy jobs are easily filled by immigrants as its still 10 times the salary they would achieve in their homeland!! Soon even crappy jobs will not be availabe for our OWN people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Doom Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I work in IT, in a non-IT marketing/business consulting company. Working with computers I don't find too bad, it's the control-freaks and office mentality that gets me down a bit sometimes. Someone mentioned that IT turns people into mindless-drones (or something similar), it's not just IT, it's corporate environments in general that have this effect on people. It's quite numbing. Things are definitely tougher than they were, and have got progressively tougher with the massive influx of immigration. Casual "I'm alright Jack" Observer, I recommend you take any "skills shortage" spin with a huge handfull of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faloos Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I work in IT, in a non-IT marketing/business consulting company. Working with computers I don't find too bad, it's the control-freaks and office mentality that gets me down a bit sometimes. Someone mentioned that IT turns people into mindless-drones (or something similar), it's not just IT, it's corporate environments in general that have this effect on people. It's quite numbing. Things are definitely tougher than they were, and have got progressively tougher with the massive influx of immigration. Its just another way by these large corporations to control the people. Destroys lateral thinking and keeps everyone in their box. Casual "I'm alright Jack" Observer, I recommend you take any "skills shortage" spin with a huge handfull of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the end is a bit nigher Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 there is a definite shortage of skilled IT and business change staff i.e. those with skills and a few years experience - NOT GRADUATES whose training is usually useless and whose attitude is usually crap there is also a move away from outsourcing from India etc. as the standard is generally poor and the benefits are not meeting the cost reductions i've also just checked jobserve for the number of IT jobs on there - just over 35K - now, a lot of those are duplicates and some probably don't exist at all, however, when I last checked back in March, there were 27K jobs advertised and when I got my current position 2 years ago, there were 20k basically, if you are any good there is still plenty of money to be made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonUnit Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 basically, if you are any good there is still plenty of money to be made Indeed. And true of any career path. Except the restoration of 1970s banisters. That is a big no-no, and will be for all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenroom Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Yeah there's lots of jobs available at the moment. Just how long that'll last is a matter of much speculation at our offices. Post 9/11 killed the market for jobs in IT and while I don't think it's gonna be anything like that this time around, I do think there's going to be a correction. Someone asked if I'm specialised . . . yeah I s'pose we are. Mostly financial including investment banking, asset/investment management and insurance/reinsurance. Worst job I've had I think but dosh is good. You're right about the corporate ethos, though. SO f***ing square and bland. You know the sort . . . the kinda people that chuckle nervously as if they really DO have a sense of humour when the elevator goes down unexpectedly instead of up or look at you like you're a freak if you're listening to anything over 100bpm on your Ipod. Full of sh*t most of 'em. Everybody and the dog in these places has a degree but none of 'em can spell properly. Had a brief and eye-opening conversation with a Cambridge grad t'other day about her upcoing trip to Italy. She said she couldn't wait to immerse herself in the rich mythological history of Italy ?? I asked her if she was sure it wasn't Greece she was referring to. "No" she trilled whilst banging on about Zeus et al. That's the problem with common sense . . . it ain't that common ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainClamp Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Yeah there's lots of jobs available at the moment. Just how long that'll last is a matter of much speculation at our offices. Post 9/11 killed the market for jobs in IT and while I don't think it's gonna be anything like that this time around, I do think there's going to be a correction. Someone asked if I'm specialised . . . yeah I s'pose we are. Mostly financial including investment banking, asset/investment management and insurance/reinsurance. Worst job I've had I think but dosh is good. You're right about the corporate ethos, though. SO f***ing square and bland. You know the sort . . . the kinda people that chuckle nervously as if they really DO have a sense of humour when the elevator goes down unexpectedly instead of up or look at you like you're a freak if you're listening to anything over 100bpm on your Ipod. Full of sh*t most of 'em. Everybody and the dog in these places has a degree but none of 'em can spell properly. Had a brief and eye-opening conversation with a Cambridge grad t'other day about her upcoing trip to Italy. She said she couldn't wait to immerse herself in the rich mythological history of Italy ?? I asked her if she was sure it wasn't Greece she was referring to. "No" she trilled whilst banging on about Zeus et al. That's the problem with common sense . . . it ain't that common ! The 2001 correction was a bit special, at that stage there were tons of barely-qualified and pretty inexperiences people who'd been drawn into the industry by the Y2K and general tech boom. That correction shook some of those people out. Lately there haven't been nearly as many entrants into the industry as it has a bad reputation post 2001, the CS courses are half empty in many colleges, etc. The interesting thing in any upcoming correction will be whether european/US staff or outsourced Indian staff take the beating. As for myself if I go through another period of unemployment as a result of stupid cycles in this industry then I am out. It pays OK but I live in a high-cost city and it's not enough to build up a proper buffer against this sort of thing. As for the office environment/whether boring and square etc, I find my current place pretty decent, but we have a youngish workforce, flexitime, don't have to wear suits yada yada, didn't fire me for having blue hair. Software companies are pretty different from Accenture (pronounced Ass-enter), investment banks, insurance cos etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Realist Bear - I was just wondering did that article say anything about media studies graduates? It seems that media studies degrees have increased but I dont see how they can all be employed in media. A friend of mine has a media studies degree and now works in HR... Also about IT outsourcing and migrants working over here. I have found the standard ok if the work is just noddy support but if required to "think outside the box" they just cant... A friend of mine who works here but is from Mumbai has told me that some of his friends back home are getting better pay than him, so where is the cost benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUMBAG Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Same here, with power engineering graduates. I did a power engineering degree. I went for an assessment centre with a well known international company a couple months ago and they never even bothered to tell me how I got on. Disgusting. I think I lost out to engineers from Zimbabwe and Malaysia despite having a first and being a chartered engineer with 15 years experience in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooh Bear Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Also about IT outsourcing and migrants working over here. I have found the standard ok if the work is just noddy support but if required to "think outside the box" they just cant... A friend of mine who works here but is from Mumbai has told me that some of his friends back home are getting better pay than him, so where is the cost benefit? Maybe his friends back home are running the outsourcing companies and are at a higher pay grade? Anyone working in IT would be well advised to read this book: My Job Went to India (and all I got was this lousy book) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 That's awful. I read my lads' computer weekly magazine, and the skills shortages and pay rates for most grad type jobs has been rising for some time. OK so somebody does a survey and finds IT Grads the most likely to get a job, and you look in Computer Weekly. I know which I'll give more credibility to But to be honest I do agree with what you are saying, there is a lack of decent IT people around. As CaptainClamp says there were a hell of a lot of people in the industry who shouldn't have been in it and also a lot who made a fast buck and got out. The compay I work for has had to employ graduates for the first time because they can't find people with the right skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnd Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 My Job Went to India (and all I got was this lousy book) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) Well if they saved a deposit, and also realised that FTBs traditionally live in FTB-type propertries, rather than average type properties... So your traditional FTB has a £50k salary does he? What about Mr average, who even in London only gets an average of £30k (if you believe the figures) does he have to lower his expectations and live in a bedsit? Edited August 15, 2006 by gilf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooh Bear Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 The cover is also one of the funniest ever (for a geeky book). The book itself is well worth reading. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeDog Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 As someone pointed out earlier in this thread - jobs don't (or at least shouldn't) define people. If you are a clone/drone/boring-prone person then it doesn't matter where you work, you will still be a gimp. If you dull down to suit a dull environment then you are a defeatist. I work in IT, and have done for 7 years. I have a computing degree which didn't mean a lot when I started work, but it at least gave me the background knowledge to ease into the industry. I can spell and everything One thing overlooked here is domestic 'outsourcing'. I have a job in London but I work from home in Suffolk. Kinda turns things around a bit doesn't it? There seem to be a lot of generalisations in this thread. Life is not always that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnd Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I work in IT, and have done for 7 years. I have a computing degree which didn't mean a lot when I started work, but it at least gave me the background knowledge to ease into the industry. I can spell and everything Yep, agree with this I got my first job coz somebody at the company went to the same uni as me - degree is just a foot in the door - as long as you look good, can read and write and can work the politics your ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooh Bear Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I got my first job coz somebody at the company went to the same uni as me - degree is just a foot in the door - as long as you look good, can read and write and can work the politics your ok... dnd, from your avatar, maybe wearing a t-shirt in the office would be a good plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnd Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 dnd, from your avatar, maybe wearing a t-shirt in the office would be a good plan! I'm called 'skinny b*****d' in my office... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 OK so somebody does a survey and finds IT Grads the most likely to get a job, and you look in Computer Weekly. I know which I'll give more credibility to Well, the regular article in Computer weekly is from a survey, so why is it any less credible? So your traditional FTB has a £50k salary does he? What about Mr average, who even in London only gets an average of £30k (if you believe the figures) does he have to lower his expectations and live in a bedsit? The traditional London FTB couple would possibly earn 50k, yes. That's the problem, people today expect to buy the same house on 1 income that used to take 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munimula Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Well, the regular article in Computer weekly is from a survey, so why is it any less credible? The traditional London FTB couple would possibly earn 50k, yes. That's the problem, people today expect to buy the same house on 1 income that used to take 2 F*ck me - you really have got your head in the clouds. 'The problem is that people expect to buy a house on 1 income'. Nothing to do with the fact that two good earners today can only afford a studio or 1-bed flat when less than 10 years ago the same money would have bought a 3-4 bed house then? If you are in your late 20's, 30's and as a couple you are both earning good money but all you can afford is a 1-bed flat - what good is that to fulfill any aspirations to start a family? How are young couples today ever going to move up the property ladder if prices were to stay the same. Are you really that oblivious to the problems faced by young people today or are you just on a wind up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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