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Marina

One Man Protest Gets On The News

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I saw on the evening news the other day a feature on a one-man protest outside the Bank of England. This bloke was protesting about the interest rate rise.

Now, somehow, he got a camera crew from a major media group (I honestly don't know if it was the BBC, ITV or Sky - but it would have been one of them because it was on the 'main' news - to come down and film him standing outside the BOE. He didn't even have a placard. He did have his teenage son for company.

Anyway, the bottom line was - he got about 5 minutes of airtime complaining about the interest rate rise - saying how much it would hurt ordinary people already squeezed by inflation and taxes etc. They also showed the big Daily Express headline as part of the feature - the one about Interest Rate Shock etc. They filmed him going in and asking to speak to Mervyn King ...

Amazing isn't it? You get a rate rise and one bloke can get on the evening news and get 5 good minutes media coverage shouting about how wrong it is.

I have often said you lot need to get off your @rses if you ever want anything to actually happen and protest - loudly - about BTL investors pricing you out of the market by leveraging the equity in their properties and enjoying favourable taxation etc.

There was a lot of negative media reaction to the rate rise - so the BOE will be very wary about the next one - they know what will be coming next.

Shame they and other people in this country have NO IDEA how pissed off and disaffected the priced out property generation is - because you have never even made a whimper as you have been screwed over.

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I saw on the evening news the other day a feature on a one-man protest outside the Bank of England. This bloke was protesting about the interest rate rise.

Now, somehow, he got a camera crew from a major media group (I honestly don't know if it was the BBC, ITV or Sky - but it would have been one of them because it was on the 'main' news - to come down and film him standing outside the BOE. He didn't even have a placard. He did have his teenage son for company.

Anyway, the bottom line was - he got about 5 minutes of airtime complaining about the interest rate rise - saying how much it would hurt ordinary people already squeezed by inflation and taxes etc. They also showed the big Daily Express headline as part of the feature - the one about Interest Rate Shock etc. They filmed him going in and asking to speak to Mervyn King ...

Amazing isn't it? You get a rate rise and one bloke can get on the evening news and get 5 good minutes media coverage shouting about how wrong it is.

I have often said you lot need to get off your @rses if you ever want anything to actually happen and protest - loudly - about BTL investors pricing you out of the market by leveraging the equity in their properties and enjoying favourable taxation etc.

There was a lot of negative media reaction to the rate rise - so the BOE will be very wary about the next one - they know what will be coming next.

Shame they and other people in this country have NO IDEA how pissed off and disaffected the priced out property generation is - because you have never even made a whimper as you have been screwed over.

With all due respect, we have been there and done that, the message has been on TV, we have as a site done what you have suggested and surprise surprise one of the VI's (Kirsty no less) was wheeled out to calm Joe Public down that there was no reason to panic.

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you do make a good point marina.

the 'priced out' generation are the very ones who are most

apathetic toward politics. even though i'm a staunch defender

of capitalist principles - it's an absolute disgrace that a btl

landlord enjoys tax relief on the interest on their btl mortgage

whereas the hard working man supporting his family receives

no such treatment - and from a so called labour government

no less. conversely, the individual pays no tax on any gain of

course - i would imagine thats the excuse anyway.

unfortunately, the grey brigade enjoys the most powerful lobby

due to their spending power...

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With all due respect, we have been there and done that, the message has been on TV, we have as a site done what you have suggested and surprise surprise one of the VI's (Kirsty no less) was wheeled out to calm Joe Public down that there was no reason to panic.

As I recall this site got a little bit of coverage once - a long time ago .... I have often said on here it should have been followed by an organized and concerted effort to maintain visibility of the cause. You should have positioned yourself as the GreenPeace of the housing world.

And, the message has never been clear ... just whining about house prices and endlessly dissecting the market, the economy, affordability, interest rates etc is just a big yawn.

You need a clear message - FTBs are priced out by BTLs and 'the people' demand fair treatment and higher taxes for BTL.

you do make a good point marina.

the 'priced out' generation are the very ones who are most

apathetic toward politics. even though i'm a staunch defender

of capitalist principles - it's an absolute disgrace that a btl

landlord enjoys tax relief on the interest on their btl mortgage

whereas the hard working man supporting his family receives

no such treatment - and from a so called labour government

no less. conversely, the individual pays no tax on any gain of

course - i would imagine thats the excuse anyway.

unfortunately, the grey brigade enjoys the most powerful lobby

due to their spending power...

I don't think it is all about grey spending power. It has more to do with the greys getting off their @rses and making their voices heard. Fathers4Justice, Council tax protests, pension protests - these are all just people who got off their backsides to get their point across.

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Wake us up when his protest 'works' and the BoE cut interest rates. In the meantime it's just the 'funny story' they put on when there isn't a cat to be rescued out of a tree.

the 'priced out' generation are the very ones who are most apathetic toward politics.

Probably because politics has proven to be an absolute disaster. There's no problem so bad that getting politicians involved can't make it worse.

Edited by MarkG

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I don't think it is all about grey spending power. It has more to do with the greys getting off their @rses and making their voices heard. Fathers4Justice, Council tax protests, pension protests - these are all just people who got off their backsides to get their point across.

OK.... so they got their point across (I'd actually disagree) and how many of those groups have brought about any change in their underlying issue.

It's a bit like poking yourself in the eye with a pencil, you don't have to do it to know it's going to hurt.

Edited by gilf

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OK.... so they got their point across (I'd actually disagree) and how many of those groups have brought about any change in their underlying issue.

It's a bit like poking yourself in the eye with a pencil, you don't have to do it to know it's going to hurt.

The bloke was a bit of a wally - no doubt about that. But even a wally got himself on the 6 o'clock news for 5 minutes spouting the VI cause. The papers have been full of doom about the interest rate rise. The opposition builds - it is vocal and the BOE will know they will have to make a job of justifying any further rises - as the howls of anguish will be heard throughout the land.

By contrast, there are no howls of anguish from the priced out generation.

Their voice has not been heard and, therefore, it cannot influence anything.

Do protests influence events? You lot say no because, I think, you couldn't organise a drink in a brewery and you are, as a generation, utterly apathetic.

Well you'll have to live in your world and I'll live in mine.

In my world ...

Fathers4Justice influenced Family Courts and they now take much more notice of the father's rights.

the suffragettes tying themselves to railings helped get women the vote.

the Tolpuddle Martyrs furthered the Trade Union cause

An old dear in Cornwall going to prison last year for withholding the increase in her Council Tax caused Labour to suddenly realise they couldn't keep whacking it up 15% every year - and it put local taxation reform on the agenda

the march against the war in Iraq made sure Tony Blair realised a war with Iran was not on

The Poll Tax riots in the 90s helped to get rid of the Poll Tax

Greenpeace have had a huge influence on the ecological agenda - and they've done brave things like disrupting whaling fleets and preventing disused oil platforms from being dumped at sea.

If 50 of you would get together and disrupt an Inside Track seminar - and got yourselves on the 6 o'clock news - and got your point across that BTL investment was killing society - pricing out young people - forcing them to delay having families etc etc - you never know - you might actually start to change sentiment.

Once upon a time it was okay to have slaves. The government of the day didn't just decide one day it was 'wrong' and ought to be changed. People fought for it. Raised the issue and made sure it didn't go away.

But you lot ... protest won't work, politics won't work, nothing works ... just pray to God the market does it for you. But, as we all know, if the housing market crashes because of economic factors - it will take you with it because higher IRs will offset any saving you make on buying a house.

Do not answer too aggressively, this site is monitored by MI5 - but you know that don't you.

I know you won't do it. You seem to justify your lack of action by saying that action never works. It's weird and so patently wrong I can only assume it is a justification for you sheer lack of bottle.

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The bloke was a bit of a wally - no doubt about that. But even a wally got himself on the 6 o'clock news for 5 minutes spouting the VI cause. The papers have been full of doom about the interest rate rise. The opposition builds - it is vocal and the BOE will know they will have to make a job of justifying any further rises - as the howls of anguish will be heard throughout the land.

By contrast, there are no howls of anguish from the priced out generation.

Their voice has not been heard and, therefore, it cannot influence anything.

Do protests influence events? You lot say no because, I think, you couldn't organise a drink in a brewery and you are, as a generation, utterly apathetic.

Well you'll have to live in your world and I'll live in mine.

In my world ...

Fathers4Justice influenced Family Courts and they now take much more notice of the father's rights.

the suffragettes tying themselves to railings helped get women the vote.

the Tolpuddle Martyrs furthered the Trade Union cause

An old dear in Cornwall going to prison last year for withholding the increase in her Council Tax caused Labour to suddenly realise they couldn't keep whacking it up 15% every year - and it put local taxation reform on the agenda

the march against the war in Iraq made sure Tony Blair realised a war with Iran was not on

The Poll Tax riots in the 90s helped to get rid of the Poll Tax

Greenpeace have had a huge influence on the ecological agenda - and they've done brave things like disrupting whaling fleets and preventing disused oil platforms from being dumped at sea.

If 50 of you would get together and disrupt an Inside Track seminar - and got yourselves on the 6 o'clock news - and got your point across that BTL investment was killing society - pricing out young people - forcing them to delay having families etc etc - you never know - you might actually start to change sentiment.

Once upon a time it was okay to have slaves. The government of the day didn't just decide one day it was 'wrong' and ought to be changed. People fought for it. Raised the issue and made sure it didn't go away.

But you lot ... protest won't work, politics won't work, nothing works ... just pray to God the market does it for you. But, as we all know, if the housing market crashes because of economic factors - it will take you with it because higher IRs will offset any saving you make on buying a house.

Do not answer too aggressively, this site is monitored by MI5 - but you know that don't you.

I know you won't do it. You seem to justify your lack of action by saying that action never works. It's weird and so patently wrong I can only assume it is a justification for you sheer lack of bottle.

One succesful investor once said that markets are smart, far smarter than any single man on this planet.

We have however one tool to aid us, patterns and trends. We all know where the pattern and trend is heading, it WILL sort itself out just like it always has.

Maybe peotest would work if there were hundreds of thousands of people on the street every day maybe add a riot or 2 into the mix too and importantly IF public sentiment was in our favour. Unfortunatley these are not the circumstances so we look at market behaviour instead which has always proved to be right in the longer term.

Edited by Impartial

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Magpie,

Chomsky has talked about the difficulty of giving 2 or 3 minute interviews for news channels. His opinions are so out of line with the accepted narrative that they need a lot time to explain and develop. In a short interview he can only end up sounding like a nutter, so he reckons it does more harm than good and doesn't bother.

The discussions on fora like this are long and protracted, and some require considerable knowledge to unpick. Most people don't have the time or inclination to seriously consider anything beyond what they are being told by the mainstream press, their neighbours, friends and family. They're not open to thinking about the long-term effects of high house prices, there is a collective (mostly unconcious) vested interest in believing that Everthing Will Turn Out Alright.

Those that care enough to spend the necessary time to read and think for themselves can draw more informed conclusions (which may or may not disagree with the accepted narrative), but it doesn't come easily. Until mainstream opinion turns, anyone expressing a desire for lower house prices just sounds like a sore loser, a whinger or a nutter. When/if mainstream opinion *does* turn (as seems to be happening now), there's no longer any need. The last correction needed no campaign to kick it off, and I don't see this one as being any different.

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unfortunately, the grey brigade enjoys the most powerful lobby

due to their spending power...

I believe it isn't their spending power but the fact they have more time to write to MP's, go to protests, and are frankly more motivated because they know it works. Look at the CPRE, a million members and huge influence.

These are all things we can achieve if we pull together.

Market forces may or may not come to the rescue but it doesn't negate the fact that government policy caused this mess. If we were better represented as a group it may not have come to this.

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One succesful investor once said that markets are smart, far smarter than any single man on this planet.

Markets are not some sort of law of physics. Markets are made and driven by people and, in this sense, are not smart. If the housing market crashes in the near future will it because 'the market is smart?' What does this mean? In fact, it is meaningless. Markets - every market in which people speculate - are driven by supply, demand and sentiment. Supply and demand in the housing market is tightly regulated by planning controls - so it primarily leaves sentiment. Demand in the housing market has come from BTL - long after the constraints that normally apply to the market i.e. affordability for would be FTBs.

We have however one tool to aid us, patterns and trends. We all know where the pattern and trend is heading, it WILL sort itself out just like it always has. Well I see the 'pattern and trend' is still up - despite the bankruptcies, the rising unemployment, the squeeze between stagnant wages and higher property prices - you can kid yourself if you like - what can't speak, can't lie - and the Land Registry statistics still show - in general - rising prices.

Maybe peotest would work if there were hundreds of thousands of people on the street every day maybe add a riot or 2 into the mix too and importantly IF public sentiment was in our favour. Unfortunatley these are not the circumstances so we look at market behaviour instead which has always proved to be right in the longer term.

Then you are, not to put too fine a point on it, fecked.

If there is some sort of global economic crisis that takes the housing market down - it will take you with it.

If there isn't - you will be priced out forever. We live in a different age. Now half the country fancy themselves as property developers. The other half are property developers. If the market corrects a bit - BTLetters will buy in before you. They priced you out on the way up and they will buy in before you on the way down. Either way, you are renting forever.

The only way you will change this is to change sentiment.

In ten years time you'll be thinking 'we should have taken to the streets 10 years ago' - because, in 10 years time, another big chunk of the limited housing stock will be in the hands of landlords.

I believe it isn't their spending power but the fact they have more time to write to MP's, go to protests, and are frankly more motivated because they know it works. Look at the CPRE, a million members and huge influence.

These are all things we can achieve if we pull together.

Market forces may or may not come to the rescue but it doesn't negate the fact that government policy caused this mess. If we were better represented as a group it may not have come to this.

I used to think the generation behind mine was great - I thought the road protests with Swampy and his ilk were brilliant. People who thought the government and establishment were wrong and who set about putting it 'right'. No violence, some tunnels and hanging around in trees - brilliant.

Whenever a controversial road scheme is announced now, the legacy of Swamp hangs over the planning meetings and the consultations etc. That bloke and his contemporaries achieved an amazing amount.

Same with Greenpeace. They prevented the dumping of redundant oil platforms at sea - they forced the big oil companies to pump all the oil out and take them apart on dry land.

I guess those guys are a generation before you lot. I know that you, Double Bubble Trouble, are motivated and trying to get organized. Fair play to you. The rest of you should get on the protest bandwagon and start raising awareness and changing sentiment.

Edited by Marina

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The last correction needed no campaign to kick it off, and I don't see this one as being any different.

The last correction was kicked off in dramatic fashion by the announcement months earlier that joint mortgage tax relief was to end. There was a frenzy as FTBs bought before the deadline and the market stopped dead in its tracks as soon as the deadline passed.

That Autumn barely a house sold and slowly it dawned on people that, in the frenzy, prices had gone over the top. The falling market was then exacerbated by much higher interest rates.

You ain't got any of that.

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The last correction was kicked off in dramatic fashion by the announcement months earlier that joint mortgage tax relief was to end. There was a frenzy as FTBs bought before the deadline and the market stopped dead in its tracks as soon as the deadline passed.

That's only one straw from the several contributing factors.

You ain't got any of that.

It doesn't need any of that.

Why the need for there to be a singular event that 'kicks it all off'? I see about 4 or 5 major problems looming on the horizon, and they all will affect the situation in one way only. The 'cause' of the correction will be debated by those that care after it's taken place. The result will be the same, regardless.

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No amount of protest is going to get the BoE to cut rates in the face of rising inflation...

Wasn't it protest from No. 11 Downing Street that caused the cut last August?

We need to make sure the pressure is on the politicians... otherwise see what happens.

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Wasn't it protest from No. 11 Downing Street that caused the cut last August?

No. It was a perceived downside risk to inflation by some members of the MPC.

That's why the BoE was made independent, to prevent political manipulation. Otherwise governments borrow loads of money at low interest rates to finance vote-winning initiatives then let inflation soar to erode the debt without tax payers having to foot the bill. Doesn't make for a very stable economy.

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Then you are, not to put too fine a point on it, fecked.

If there is some sort of global economic crisis that takes the housing market down - it will take you with it.

If there isn't - you will be priced out forever. We live in a different age. Now half the country fancy themselves as property developers. The other half are property developers. If the market corrects a bit - BTLetters will buy in before you. They priced you out on the way up and they will buy in before you on the way down. Either way, you are renting forever.

The only way you will change this is to change sentiment.

In ten years time you'll be thinking 'we should have taken to the streets 10 years ago' - because, in 10 years time, another big chunk of the limited housing stock will be in the hands of landlords.

in 10 years time i will have sold all my gold and stocks and be enjoying my own private island.

Calm down Marina have faith, your kids will be able to buy homes in due course. Inflation will rise as will rates, the fiat economy will be exposed for all its faults and a return to a correlation between gold/paper currency will take place until people realise the true value and worth of 'money' instead of having it on tap.

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That's why the BoE was made independent, to prevent political manipulation. Otherwise governments borrow loads of money at low interest rates to finance vote-winning initiatives then let inflation soar to erode the debt without tax payers having to foot the bill. Doesn't make for a very stable economy.

Hahaha that's the funniest joke I've heard all year... do you honestly believe the BoE is not being politically manipulated?

And your other points are exactly what has been happening!

Read this, probably a more realistic view...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...lumnist_gilbert

....

Frankly, it's your own fault. If you'd let ME pick all of the economists for the Monetary Policy Committee, the external members wouldn't have been able to gang up on us in 2005 and get their way with that ridiculous interest-rate cut.

....

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funny how people will protest at having to pay an extra £10 or £20 a month for their house but if it costs £10k, £20k, or £30k more to buy than it did the year before they think it's great

End is Nigh, that thought has struck me a few times. The only explanation I can think of is that people are just stupid monkeys who don't know any better.

Apologies to the late, great Douglas Adams.

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Whenever a controversial road scheme is announced now, the legacy of Swamp hangs over the planning meetings and the consultations etc. That bloke and his contemporaries achieved an amazing amount.

Yeah, they totally ******ed up this country's transport infrastructure, and their 'protests' were funded by the taxpayers through the dole. It's a lot harder for the productive people of the country to go live in tunnels in the woods than for dole-scroungers to do so.

Markets are not some sort of law of physics.

Markets beat protests any day of the week. Do you think that people protesting in the street would have kept the UK in the ERM?

Right now global interest rates are rising because the only other option is global hyperinflation. It's just a matter of time before that causes a house price crash here.

The rest of you should get on the protest bandwagon and start raising awareness and changing sentiment.

Many of us are: we're making the only protest that actually counts... taking our skills and money abroad. Why stay here and 'protest', begging the government to 'do something' about house prices, when we could just have a better life somewhere else? Politics is pointless.

Edited by MarkG

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Well, if it was that obvious why did anyone buy a house in the run up to the withdrawal of double tax relief? Why didn't they say, "let's wait until the market crashes and then buy"?

Duh! Because no-one knew the market was going to crash. All people knew was that if they bought before July 1st 1988 (I think that was the date) they would get joint tax relief and if they bought after they wouldn't. They also didn't know that Interest Rates were going to go up again or that a severe recession was just around the corner. Bit like people now can't see a crash coming. You can, apparently, but you are in a tiny minority.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

The real reasons for the forthcoming crash/correction/softening will only become obvious AFTER the event. In which case, why are you so convinced you KNOW what is coming?

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Yeah, they totally ******ed up this country's transport infrastructure, and their 'protests' were funded by the taxpayers through the dole. It's a lot harder for the productive people of the country to go live in tunnels in the woods than for dole-scroungers to do so.

Markets beat protests any day of the week. Do you think that people protesting in the street would have kept the UK in the ERM? Look, when the suffragettes wanted the vote for women were they trying to buck a market? No, they were trying to change the way people thought about women. When the early Trade Unionists tried to form Trade Unions were they bucking a market? No, they were fighting for their right to a decent wage for the work they put in. You are facing what is effectively a rigged market. The housing market is rigged in favour of people already in it. Anyone with a bit of equity can leverage it to buy BTL properties and let them out in a favourable tax environment. This discriminates against you. So you need to get the market unrigged. It is nothing to do with beating or changing a market. The market is rigged - you need to get it unrigged.

Right now global interest rates are rising because the only other option is global hyperinflation. It's just a matter of time before that causes a house price crash here. Whatever ... how long has this been going on .... yawn .... how long can you wait ... USA economy going off the boil now .... interest rate CUTs next ... same here next Spring ... who knows ... just sitting on your backside waiting this out will leave you priced out forever. But this won't bother you as you are moving abroad.

Many of us are: we're making the only protest that actually counts... taking our skills and money abroad. Why stay here and 'protest', begging the government to 'do something' about house prices, when we could just have a better life somewhere else? Politics is pointless.

Well off you go then. If you want to leave your Mum, Dad, brothers, sisters, cousins, uncles, friends etc and start a new life in a 'better' country - then go for it. I might be selfish but I kind of hope that my kids will be able to live somewhere near me - so me and my wife can do the doting grandparent thing - so we can help our kids out when they need help. I have found in my life that the only people you can ultimately rely on are your family and, as such, they are important to me. So you run away if you want - it is the coward's way out. If you are not a coward, why not fight for what you believe is right. Or do you believe it is 'right' for BTLetters to leverage the equity in their homes and price you out of the housing market that is regulated to strangle supply. I think this isn't 'right' and I think it needs spelling out to the powers that be.

I repeat ....

If there is some sort of global economic crisis that takes the housing market down - it will take you with it.

If there isn't - you will be priced out forever. We live in a different age. Now half the country fancy themselves as property developers. The other half are property developers. If the market corrects a bit - BTLetters will buy in before you. They priced you out on the way up and they will buy in before you on the way down. Either way, you are renting forever.

The only way you will change this is to change sentiment.

In ten years time you'll be thinking 'we should have taken to the streets 10 years ago' - because, in 10 years time, another big chunk of the limited housing stock will be in the hands of landlords.

Edited by Marina

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If the market corrects a bit - BTLetters will buy in before you.

Erm, no.

As has been said before many times - if the market starts correcting, smart money won't be going any where near it until it stops correcting... this in turn will re-inforce the correction, keeping even more investors out, etc. etc... and down she goes.

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Guest X-QUORK

They priced you out on the way up and they will buy in before you on the way down. Either way, you are renting forever.

Who are you addressing with comments like that? Anyone in particular, or is it just another rant at some perceived feckless FTBer? I've owned property, but STR'd last year when I needed to upsize for family reasons. We'll buy again in a few years when prices return to 3x salary multiples.

I swear you're losing your grip Marina, try taking a break from this site for a while, it's obviously getting to you.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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