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Security Alert Masks 'attack Dog' Reid's 100 Day Aniversary

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Hmm. Interesting that on Mr 'Attack Dog' Reid's 98th day he makes a widely publicised speech about immigration (and needing a grown up debate).

Then day 99 we have this terror alert.

Then it's day 100 -- 'How well have you done Mr Reid?' What do you think the media will focus on today?

Is this the grooming of a future prime minister to stand against a Mr Brown, do you think?

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I think the terror scare is a thinly veiled guise to take the focus off the occupation of Lebanon and the crimes being carried out with indirect backing of the US and the UK.

Call me naive but I had gone into the new millenium with a positive attitude that we as a civilisation might learn from our previous mistakes and recognize violience begets violence.

We the public are at fault, the answers are in our hands and yet we continue to turn the other cheek and let our generals continue with their wild crusade of Global Government. God forbid they are successfull as I for one have not wish to live under the rule of a Global Government.

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Guest X-QUORK

Danger Will Robinson!! Danger!! There are conspiracy theory whackos in the vicinity!! Danger!

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Guest Alright Jack

I think the terror scare is a thinly veiled guise to take the focus off the occupation of Lebanon and the crimes being carried out with indirect backing of the US and the UK.

Call me naive but I had gone into the new millenium with a positive attitude that we as a civilisation might learn from our previous mistakes and recognize violience begets violence.

We the public are at fault, the answers are in our hands and yet we continue to turn the other cheek and let our generals continue with their wild crusade of Global Government. God forbid they are successfull as I for one have not wish to live under the rule of a Global Government.

We're all in very big trouble. I think NuLabour are taking far too much on themselves. We're being kept entertained while they take away what liberties we have left. The police are going to be hallucinating terror plots and chasing their own shadow for many years to come. The only genuine terror plots will be the ones that succeed. You can't counter terrorism. By attempting to do so is playing into their hands. All you can do is ignore them until they get bored of not creating 24-7 MCNews orgies.

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Danger Will Robinson!! Danger!! There are conspiracy theory whackos in the vicinity!! Danger!

X-quork.

Do you think it was any coincidence that just a few short weeks before kicking of the war on Iraq that Heathrow was surrounded by tanks. All very bombastic and impressive, but how would they stop a shoe bomber! :lol:

If you think governments don't say one thing whilst doing something for another reason entierl you are more stunning niaive and bovine than those conspiracy wackos you distain. Labour invented SPIN.

Edited by geneer

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Geneer

I'm not going to get dragged into yet another thread about terrorism and the Middle East, this is, after all, a forum for the discussion of house prices.

You are entitled to your views, and I am entitled to mine, one of which is that there are too many conspiracy theory whackos on this site. It's seriously starting to make me question the standard of House Price Crash as a whole.

As for bovine, nice insult! Must try that one out myself some time. ;)

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That police activity has been considerable. Since September 11, 2001 to the end of last year, 701 people have been arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000, which requires only "reasonable suspicion" to arrest. Most have come from various branches of the Muslim community - either North Africans, who were the subject of most arrests in the immediate post-September 11 period, and Middle Eastern Muslims, or British-born suspects of Pakistani origin.

However, only 119 of those arrested were charged under the Act. Of those, 45 were also charged with offences under other legislation. A total of 135 others were charged under other legislation, including charges for "terrorist offences that are already covered in general criminal law such as grievous bodily harm and use of firearms or explosives". There have also been a number of fraud cases.

Of the rest, about 60 were transferred to immigration authorities and 351 were released without charge. Only 17 individuals have been convicted of offences under the Terrorism Act and there have been "lesser" convictions, either Irish-related or as a result of membership of proscribed terror groups.

This is from the Times on 27/1/05. 701 people arrested, 17 convicted! Anyone got any more up to date figures??

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I think the terror scare is a thinly veiled guise to take the focus off the occupation of Lebanon and the crimes being carried out with indirect backing of the US and the UK.

Call me naive but I had gone into the new millenium with a positive attitude that we as a civilisation might learn from our previous mistakes and recognize violience begets violence.

We the public are at fault, the answers are in our hands and yet we continue to turn the other cheek and let our generals continue with their wild crusade of Global Government. God forbid they are successfull as I for one have not wish to live under the rule of a Global Government.

Is this the houseprice crash forum or political soapbox corner, in which case I'll reply in kind? I guess 9/11 and the Madrid and London bombings were all stage managed for domestic consumption. Just as monks in Thailand hack themselves to death or commuting Indians blow themselves up just to make Muslims look bad. It may not fit comfortably into your world view but the 'Clash of civilisations' view has been proven uncannily accurate, the phrase 'Islam has bloody borders' springs to mind. Of course it's easier to blame everything on the U.S and Israel but this does not explain the strife every other group is having when certain east facing neighbours from hell get mad.

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Geneer

I'm not going to get dragged into yet another thread about terrorism and the Middle East, this is, after all, a forum for the discussion of house prices.

You are entitled to your views, and I am entitled to mine, one of which is that there are too many conspiracy theory whackos on this site. It's seriously starting to make me question the standard of House Price Crash as a whole.

As for bovine, nice insult! Must try that one out myself some time. ;)

tit

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Geneer

I'm not going to get dragged into yet another thread about terrorism and the Middle East, this is, after all, a forum for the discussion of house prices.

You are entitled to your views, and I am entitled to mine, one of which is that there are too many conspiracy theory whackos on this site. It's seriously starting to make me question the standard of House Price Crash as a whole.

As for bovine, nice insult! Must try that one out myself some time. ;)

Interestingly, the BBC Newsnight website seems to be full of similar minded "conspiracy theorists", as no doubt are many other locations. What a coincidence eh? Seems you may be one of the few sane, trusting citizens left in the country. Is your name John Reid by any chance?

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Is this the houseprice crash forum or political soapbox corner, in which case I'll reply in kind? I guess 9/11 and the Madrid and London bombings were all stage managed for domestic consumption. Just as monks in Thailand hack themselves to death or commuting Indians blow themselves up just to make Muslims look bad. It may not fit comfortably into your world view but the 'Clash of civilisations' view has been proven uncannily accurate, the phrase 'Islam has bloody borders' springs to mind. Of course it's easier to blame everything on the U.S and Israel but this does not explain the strife every other group is having when certain east facing neighbours from hell get mad.

If there is such a terror threat 24/7 with an bogey man on every street corner out to get us all.

The please ask yourself this question.

Why have this government in this new century of crisis, stripped our boders of any protection from the so called invaders.

Ever been arrived in Heathrow, or the Sea Ports of late?.

In this time of world crisis, our government have chose to make cost savings on our borders, but have a huge arsenal of cash for world crusades!!!.

I think our Government are taking the p1ss out of us to be frank, I for one am not fooled by the b0ll0cks that spews from their mouths on a daily basis.

Our troops are at war, whilst our prime minister suns himeslf abroad....................and that message is ?

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If there is such a terror threat 24/7 with an bogey man on every street corner out to get us all......

Indeed...

Its funny how A-q* turned up just in time to replace the SU who turned up just in time to replace DE and so on...

Perfectly choreographed.. One at a time please.. Wait your turn.. Exit stage left...

It so obvious that the "empire" needs that bogey man as a manipulation device.. If BL did exist they would create him.

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Take a look at the website below and I think you can then make your mind up yourself about conspiricy theories.

I'm afraid the when many people take their heads out of their backsides and actually look around the wider world it may well be too late.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Core views and beliefs

The PNAC Web site states the group's "fundamental propositions", which are

"American leadership is good both for America and for the world"

"such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle"

"too few political leaders today are making the case for global leadership."

The PNAC also made a statement of principles at their 1997 inception.

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's pre-eminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

The PNAC advocates "a policy of military strength and moral clarity" which includes

A significant increase of US military spending.

Strengthening ties with US allies and challenging regimes hostile to US interests and values.

Promoting the cause of political and economic freedom outside the US.

Preserving and extending an international order friendly to US security, prosperity and principles.

The PNAC and its members had long called for the United States to abandon the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty between the US and the Soviet Union, from which the US withdrew in 2002. The PNAC also proposes to control the new "international commons" of space and "cyberspace" and pave the way for the creation of a new military service — U.S. Space Forces — with the mission of space control. In 1998, Donald Rumsfeld chaired a bipartisan commission on the US Ballistic Missile Threat toward advancement of these goals. It is unclear how "space control" will affect US adherence to the Outer Space Treaty.

[edit]

Rebuilding America's Defenses

In September 2000, the PNAC issued a 90-page report entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces, And Resources For A New Century, proceeding "from the belief that America should seek to preserve and extend its position of global leadership by maintaining the preeminence of U.S. military forces." The report has been the subject of much analysis and criticism.

The group states that when diplomacy or sanctions fail, the United States must be prepared to take military action. PNAC argues that the current Cold War deployment of forces is obsolete. Defense spending and force deployment must reflect the post-Cold War duties that US forces have been called upon to perform. Constabulary duties such as peacekeeping in the Balkans and the enforcement of the No Fly Zones in Iraq have put a strain upon, and reduced the readiness of, US forces. The PNAC recommends the forward redeployment of US forces at new strategically placed permanent military bases in Southeast Europe and Southeast Asia. Permanent bases ease the strain on US forces, allowing readiness to be maintained and the carrier fleet to be reduced. Furthermore the military should be enlarged, equipped and restructured for the "constabulary" roles associated with shaping the security in critical regions of the world.

[edit]

Chairman and Executive Director

William Kristol taught politics at the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government. In 1985 he went to Washington and later served as chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle during the Bush administration, and to Secretary of Education William Bennett under President Ronald Reagan.

Kristol led the Project for the Republican Future, where he helped create the strategy which produced the 1994 Republican congressional victory. He started The Weekly Standard in 1995, and now serves as its editor and publisher. He is also a political contributor for the Fox News Channel and serves as a regular contributor to Special Report with Brit Hume.

Gary J. Schmitt, Executive Director, received his Ph.D. in political science from University of Chicago. He served as a top aide of Senator Daniel Moynihan (D-NY), and as staff director of the Senate Intelligence Committee and later executive director of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board under President Reagan. His published work includes studies of national security and foreign policy, intelligence policy, and American political and constitutional thought.

[edit]

Position on Iraq

In 1998, following perceived Iraqi unwillingness to co-operate with UN weapons inspections, members of the PNAC, including Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, wrote to President Bill Clinton urging him to remove Saddam Hussein from power using US diplomatic, political and military power. The letter argued that Saddam would pose a threat to the United States, its Middle East allies and oil resources in the region if he succeeded in maintaining his stockpile of Weapons of Mass Destruction. The letter also stated "we can no longer depend on our partners in the Gulf War to continue to uphold the sanctions or to punish Saddam when he blocks or evades UN inspections" and "American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council." The letter argues that an Iraq war would be justified by Hussein's defiance of UN "containment" policy and his persistent threat to US interests.

The 2000 Rebuilding America's Defenses report recommends improved planning and , the report states "while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for US military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein" and "Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region".

[edit]

Controversy

The PNAC has been the subject of considerable criticism and controversy, both among members of the left and right. Critics dispute the premise that American "world leadership" is desirable for the world or even for the United States itself. The PNAC's harshest critics claim it represents a disturbing step towards total world subjugation by America, motivated by an imperial and globalist agenda of global US military expansionism and dominance. Critics of the United States' international relations take umbrage at the PNAC's unabashed position of maintaining the nation's privileged position as sole world superpower. Some critics even assert that the fall of the Soviet Union indicates an end to the era of 'superpowers' and therefore any concept of military hegemony or ascendancy are overrated. Military might is not power in itself, say the critics; it requires huge financial commitments, strong domestic and international support, plus skillful management to be considered worthwhile. PNAC position papers and other documents contain few references on building or maintaining any of these requirements. [citation needed]

Supporters of the project reply that the PNAC's goals are not fundamentally different from past conservative foreign policy assessments. American conservatives have traditionally favored a militarily strong United States, and advocated the country take aggressive positions when its interests are threatened. Supporters thus see the PNAC as the target of unfair conspiracy theories, mainly motivated by the left. [citation needed]

A line frequently quoted by critics from Rebuilding America's Defenses famously refers to the possibility of a "catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor" (page 51). This quote appears in Chapter V, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", which discusses the perceived need for the Department of Defense to "move more aggressively to experiment with new technologies and operational concepts” (page 50). The full quote is as follows: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor." Some have used this quote as evidence for their belief the US government was complicit in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. See the article 9/11 conspiracy theories for further information on this topic. Many critics also claim the PNAC believed this "new Pearl Harbor" would justify war on Iraq. [citation needed]

[edit]

Criticisms of position on Iraq

Many critics of the American-led invasion of Iraq claim the US' "bullying" of the international community into supporting the 2003 Iraq war, and the fact that the war went ahead despite much international criticism, stem from the positions of prominent conservatives in the Bush administration. Some critics of the Bush administration see the 1998 letter to President Clinton as a "smoking gun" [2], showing that the invasion of Iraq was a foregone conclusion. These critics see the letter as evidence of Rumsfeld's, Wolfowitz's and Perle's opinions, five years prior to the Iraq invasion. Other signatories of the letter include John Bolton and Zalmay Khalilzad, as of this writing the United States' ambassadors to the United Nations and Iraq, respectively. Rory Bremner, citing the letter, said "that's what they want — regime change — and nothing, not Blair, not the UN, not Hans Blix, not France, Germany, Russia, China, not the threat of terrorism, or Arab reservations, or lack of evidence or the Peace March, not even our own brave Jack Straw is going to stand in their way." [3] George Monbiot, citing the letter, said "to pretend that this battle begins and ends in Iraq requires a willful denial of the context in which it occurs. That context is a blunt attempt by the superpower to reshape the world to suit itself." [4]

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John "Jimmy" Reid must have involved the Pakistanis in this as well--quite an elaborate plot if that is what it is:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2308062,00.html

The Times August 11, 2006

Terror plot
Islamabad claims credit for foiling bomb plot
From Zahid Hussain in Islamabad
PAKISTAN has arrested two or three people in connection with the terror plot to blow up aircraft bound for the United States from Britain.
“There were some arrests in Pakistan which were coordinated with arrests in the UK,” Tasnim Aslam, a foreign ministry spokeswoman, said. She did not give any further details about the arrests, including the number of suspects, their identities or when they were arrested.
However, a senior government official said that “two or three local people” suspected of involvement in the plot were arrested a few days ago in Lahore and Karachi.
Those arrested had links with al-Qaeda, the terror organisation blamed for the September 11 attacks on the United States, according to a senior Pakistani security official.
Pakistan was yesterday claiming to have played a key role in “uncovering and breaking this international terrorist network”, Ms Aslam added. “Co-operation in this particular case was spread over a period of time.”

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You are entitled to your views, and I am entitled to mine, one of which is that there are too many conspiracy theory whackos on this site. It's seriously starting to make me question the standard of House Price Crash as a whole.

Me too... :angry:

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If there is such a terror threat 24/7 with an bogey man on every street corner out to get us all.

The please ask yourself this question.

Why have this government in this new century of crisis, stripped our boders of any protection from the so called invaders.

Ever been arrived in Heathrow, or the Sea Ports of late?.

In this time of world crisis, our government have chose to make cost savings on our borders, but have a huge arsenal of cash for world crusades!!!.

I think our Government are taking the p1ss out of us to be frank, I for one am not fooled by the b0ll0cks that spews from their mouths on a daily basis.

Our troops are at war, whilst our prime minister suns himeslf abroad....................and that message is ?

The lip service recently paid by new Labour when they announced more immigration officers was simply windowdressing. The realpolitik is that it is too late - 'The enemy is well and truly within.' how many north Africans live in France and Spain too? Don't get me wrong the government is as disingenuous as they come, but in my oppinion the threat we are facing is real enough, as for how to get out of it my answer would be 'Well I wouldn't have started from here'. :ph34r:

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So where are the 21 people, what are their names, what do we know about them.

How many convictions will come of this?.

We already know the answer, Sweet FA.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/11082006/325/bugg...-bomb-plot.html

Suspects named in bomb plot

Reuters Friday August 11, 08:21 AM

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain on Friday named 19 people suspected of being involved in a plot to blow up trans-atlantic airliners and ordered their assets frozen, a day after police said they had foiled attempts to cause mass murder.
The Bank of England, acting on instructions from the government, published the names and addresses of 19 suspects, saying it would be illegal to release their funds. The following have been charged or are helping police with their enquiries: Burt Smith, Harry Evans, Doris Higgins, Terry Hutchins, Guiseppe Ravioli, Dai Williams, Hamish McTavish, Gloria Wentworth, Arnold Davis, Fiona Hawkes-Ponsoby, Michael Burgess, Seamus O'Flarrety, Bruce McDonald, Timothy Littleone, Sharon Brown, Terrence Johnson, Hugo St.John-Blythe, Bruce Cobber and Mark Pinkerton.
The Crown Prosec

<_<

What did we suspect?

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed

Date of birth (DOB): 10/10/1980

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

ALI, Cossor

DOB: 04/12/1982

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

ALI, Shazad, Khuram

DOB: 11/06/1979

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

HUSSAIN, Nabeel

DOB: 10/03/1984

Address: London, E4

HUSSAIN, Tanvir

DOB: 21/02/1981

Address: Leyton, London, E10

HUSSAIN, Umair

DOB: 09/10/1981

Address: London, E14

ISLAM, Umar

DOB: 23/04/1978

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

KAYANI, Waseem

DOB: 28/04/1977

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

KHAN, Assan, Abdullah

DOB: 24/10/1984

Address: London, E17

KHAN, Waheed, Arafat

DOB: 18/05/1981

Address: London, E17

KHATIB, Osman, Adam

DOB: 07/12/1986

Address: London, E17

PATEL, Abdul, Muneem

DOB: 17/04/1989

Address: London, E5

RAUF, Tayib

DOB: 26/04/1984

Address: Birmingham

SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman

DOB: 23/04/1982

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

SARWAR, Assad

DOB: 24/05/1980

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

SAVANT, Ibrahim

DOB: 19/12/1980

Address: London, E17

TARIQ, Amin, Asmin

DOB: 07/06/1983

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed

DOB: 22/11/1970

Address: Stoke Newington, London

ZAMAN, Waheed

DOB: 27/05/1984

Address: London, E17

Edited by Realistbear

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The Bank of England, acting on instructions from the government, published the names and addresses of 19 suspects, saying it would be illegal to release their funds. The following have been charged or are helping police with their enquiries: Burt Smith, Harry Evans, Doris Higgins, Terry Hutchins, Guiseppe Ravioli, Dai Williams, Hamish McTavish, Gloria Wentworth, Arnold Davis, Fiona Hawkes-Ponsoby, Michael Burgess, Seamus O'Flarrety, Bruce McDonald, Timothy Littleone, Sharon Brown, Terrence Johnson, Hugo St.John-Blythe, Bruce Cobber and Mark Pinkerton.
The Crown Prosec

<_<

What did we suspect?

Who is "we"? Nice, white, middle-class English people without those funny foreign names? You do realise that incitement of racial hatred is illegal as well as morally abhorrent? :angry:

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Who is "we"? Nice, white, middle-class English people without those funny foreign names? You do realise that incitement of racial hatred is illegal as well as morally abhorrent? :angry:

Its a cynical commentary on how our society is racially geared at this time. PC would have prevented the publication of a homogenous list of names but when the wind changes its okay. What bothers me is the hypocrisy that drives the mentality of PC and how even a list of names is seen as racist. Its sensitivity gone mad and shows how assumption rules the day. As if white middle class English people should be different to a list of Muslim sounding names. Its the ACT that ios the issue here, not the names or races of the people. Unfortunately, you fell into the trap of assumption that I set. But that is not a criticism, its the way we have been programmed to think. Bill Smith: okay. Muhammed Faouud: not okay. :blink:

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There was a report that one of the alleged gang was a white middle class convert to Islam. Not sure if he was a lawyer though.

That would confuse the BNP and the Daily Mail... :lol:

Its a cynical commentary on how our society is racially geared at this time. PC would have prevented the publication of a homogenous list of names but when the wind changes its okay. What bothers me is the hypocrisy that drives the mentality of PC and how even a list of names is seen as racist. Its sensitivity gone mad and shows how assumption rules the day. As if white middle class English people should be different to a list of Muslim sounding names. Its the ACT that ios the issue here, not the names or races of the people. Unfortunately, you fell into the trap of assumption that I set. But that is not a criticism, its the way we have been programmed to think. Bill Smith: okay. Muhammed Faouud: not okay. :blink:

The trap of assumption? How clever of you... :ph34r:

What exactly was your point in creating a list of alternative British-sounding names and then following it up with the phrase "What did we suspect"?

Edited by IamSpartacus

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What did we suspect?

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed

Date of birth (DOB): 10/10/1980

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

ALI, Cossor

DOB: 04/12/1982

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

ALI, Shazad, Khuram

DOB: 11/06/1979

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

HUSSAIN, Nabeel

DOB: 10/03/1984

Address: London, E4

HUSSAIN, Tanvir

DOB: 21/02/1981

Address: Leyton, London, E10

HUSSAIN, Umair

DOB: 09/10/1981

Address: London, E14

ISLAM, Umar

DOB: 23/04/1978

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

KAYANI, Waseem

DOB: 28/04/1977

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

KHAN, Assan, Abdullah

DOB: 24/10/1984

Address: London, E17

KHAN, Waheed, Arafat

DOB: 18/05/1981

Address: London, E17

KHATIB, Osman, Adam

DOB: 07/12/1986

Address: London, E17

PATEL, Abdul, Muneem

DOB: 17/04/1989

Address: London, E5

RAUF, Tayib

DOB: 26/04/1984

Address: Birmingham

SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman

DOB: 23/04/1982

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

SARWAR, Assad

DOB: 24/05/1980

Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

SAVANT, Ibrahim

DOB: 19/12/1980

Address: London, E17

TARIQ, Amin, Asmin

DOB: 07/06/1983

Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed

DOB: 22/11/1970

Address: Stoke Newington, London

ZAMAN, Waheed

DOB: 27/05/1984

Address: London, E17

As I said, it's too late to police the borders, the enemy is within.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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