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A fascist is someone who wants to control the outcome of an event be it physical or mental.

I think your find the fascists are Blair and Bush.

Hence, regime change in iraq and soon iran and syria. Its called spreading democracy by using force. This is fascism at its highest level.

That is genuinely a very odd definition of fascism. Have you done GCSE history yet?

Edited by Scooter

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I don't believe strong government has much to recommend it. Thatcher took on the unions and won - now look where we are - the working class are trodden underfoot again. A middle path would have been better.

As the for the lot we have now - Blair's majority gave him the position to take us into Iraq. If he had only had a majority of 10 - he would never have been able to do it.

NuLabour have made lots of boundary commission changes to make it harder for them to be voted out. I can't remember the actual figures but whereas in 1997 the Tories needed X% of the vote to form a government, now they need X +6% to form a government. This tinkering with democracy is leading towards totalitarianism.

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - what a patronising load of claptrap that is ... if you had voted election in, election out for 50 years and never seen a MP from the party you voted for all that time in power - well it's just plain bunkum isn't it? The fact is that in many constituencies if everyone voted (if everyone was forced to vote) the outcome would be completely predictable. If everyone in my constituency was forced to vote the outcome would be Tory. Has been for as long as the seat has existed. If you live in my constituency and vote Labour - IT MEANS NOTHING.

Marina - you sound more like a Tory than a Liberal ;)

Having reviewed the last few posts, I can see that as a pacifist, I'm severely outnumbered on this thread so I think I ought to leave you all to it to discuss the best way to obliterate the planet :(

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if its so awful here, why don't they go somewhere where they won't be "under seige", maybe to a liberal, tolerant country like Afghanistan, Iran, Syria or Pakistan...............

Well said! :lol: Take John Bull Laden, Sledgy, Tacoma, Mr Blek et al please as well.

Edited by Scooter

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That is genuinely a very odd definition of fascism. Have you done GCSE history yet?

Fascism is also typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic. The fascist state regulates and controls........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

no, ive got 'A' level thanks and a degree in computer science. GCSE's are for kids.

Edited by debtfree

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We're talking about Security Council resolutions here. All the resolutions quoted were ones where only the US voted against. That means that China, France, Russia and the UK all chose not to vote against any of those resolutions. Are you saying that the UK is non-democratic? Or anti-Israeli?

I see what you mean but my feeling is that of France, Russia, China and the British Foreign office/UK Labour and Tory governments, some either have now or have had at the time of some of those resolutions a strong anti-Israeli bias for various reasons, often related to their own Arab/Muslim alliances or to appease restive domestic Muslim populations and often not unconnected to oil or other trade or rivalry with the US. I maintain that the UN is corrupt to the core and in its wider constitution routinely and irrevocably biased against Israel.

Aryeh bin Scootrim

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Who wants to get in first with the 'Geek' jokes B)

Can't take it hey.

Someone says your way off the mark and posts something from a site that actually backs up what you've said.

I think the geek has maybe come out in you.

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Fascism is also typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic. The fascist state regulates and controls........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

no, ive got 'A' level thanks and a degree in computer science. GCSE's are for kids.

So a slightly more specific definition when pushed then eh? A bit better than "a fascist is someone who wants to control an outcome..."

A level history? Well, impressive! Me too (got an A grade in 1984 before they went soft :) ) but I can't remember bragging about it for years. :rolleyes:

S.

Edited by Scooter

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So a slightly more specific definition when pushed then eh? A bit better than "a fascist is someone who wants to control an outcome..."

A level history? Well, impressive! Me too (got an A grade in 1984 before they went soft :) ) but I can't remember bragging about it for years. :rolleyes:

S.

come on. what do you mean a bit better, people just didn't understand.

as i stated 'A fascist is someone who wants to control the outcome of an event be it physical or mental.'

and as the link said : political, social, cultural, and economic.

These are all events.

end of.

well done on gettnig on 'A' :D

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Fascism is also typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic. The fascist state regulates and controls........

Neo-liberalism = big business attempts to impose corporate control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic. The multinational corporation regulates and controls........

Fasscism would never have terrorized the mid-twentieth century if big business had not taken fright over Bolshevism in the Soviet Union - big business in the UK, America and Germany initially saw Hitler as the antidote to Bolshevism (they did not gamble on his meglomaniac madness)

All interests must be subjugated to the sole objective: profit

The Jesuits used to say give us a child and we´ve got him or her for life - kind of like the Happy Meal kiddie´s opiate of MacDonalds

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come on. what do you mean a bit better, people just didn't understand.

as i stated 'A fascist is someone who wants to control the outcome of an event be it physical or mental.'

and as the link said : political, social, cultural, and economic.

These are all events.

end of.

well done on gettnig on 'A' :D

It was a tough few exams-I don't know how I would have got through life without an indepth knowledge of the Stuarts, the 100 Years war and the Dutch Enlightenment... :rolleyes:

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It was a tough few exams-I don't know how I would have got through life without an indepth knowledge of the Stuarts, the 100 Years war and the Dutch Enlightenment... :rolleyes:

Did your Dutch Enlightnement have anything to do with tulip bubbles (just to stay topical with the website) ? :)

Marina,

I sympathise with how you must feel.

I too abhor racism.

I am married to a Turkish woman.

From an evolutionary point of view genetic mixing produces improved gene combinations. In that respect the Aryan dogma of the Nazis was totally unfounded scientifically.

However, my marriage only works because we are not religious.

Cultural boundaries are a real problem. If the Asians in this country would accept our country and let their daughters marry British people that would not be a problem. Unfortunately they insist on maintaining a medieval-style belief based on a set of values that applied to the harsh desert conditions of the 6th century AD.

If they no not adapt and integrate they will inevitably face problems.

Of course, many do and are very successful - and the very best of luck to them. But too many don´t

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Just heard some interesting stuff on the radio. Apparently Saab's 9-5 model can run on Ethanol and, in Sweden, 8 out of 10 of them are sold to run on Ethanol - with 30 bhp more than the petrol equivalent.

Surely we just need to accelerate this and we can close our borders and let the nutters in the Middle East get on with trying to make a living out of a desert.

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Well said! :lol: Take John Bull Laden, Sledgy, Tacoma, Mr Blek et al please as well.

Reading John Bull's posts, I suspect that he is actually an alias of SHEIKH Hassan Nasrallah in disguise..........you wont get a response from him it is Friday pm...............

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Just heard some interesting stuff on the radio. Apparently Saab's 9-5 model can run on Ethanol and, in Sweden, 8 out of 10 of them are sold to run on Ethanol - with 30 bhp more than the petrol equivalent.

Surely we just need to accelerate this and we can close our borders and let the nutters in the Middle East get on with trying to make a living out of a desert.

Sure, if you can explain where to get the energy to create the ethanol, and how we're going to feed people after we start replacing food production with ethanol production: I believe in general fuel ethanol production takes more energy than it produces when burnt, though maybe that's improved in the last few years.

If it was that easy to switch to a non-oil fuel, we'd have done so years ago.

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Fasscism would never have terrorized the mid-twentieth century if big business had not taken fright over Bolshevism in the Soviet Union - big business in the UK, America and Germany initially saw Hitler as the antidote to Bolshevism (they did not gamble on his meglomaniac madness)

To blame big business for Nazism really is a stretch which doesn't fit the historical facts, just like Bush being blamed for 9/11 and all the subsequent ills despite it being planned before he came to office and ignoring all the previous islamic atrocities.

Wanting some leftist simplification to be true because it simplifies an extremely complex and even unknowable historical situation doesn't make it so, no matter how much a nasty capitalistic scapgoat is desired.

The virulent anti-semitism of early 20th Century Austria/Bavaria, the lack of international trading and big international businesses (although some did exist), British and other countries' appeasement/accomodation (driven by the people, the media and craven politicians rather than big business) are likelier candidates.

Wars in general destroy capital and so widespread and distributed assets and ownership should create capitalists incentivised to discourage warfare.

If the EU and its free trading rules had been create after the first world war rather the second things might have been different.

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Cultural boundaries are a real problem. If the Asians in this country would accept our country and let their daughters marry British people that would not be a problem. Unfortunately they insist on maintaining a medieval-style belief based on a set of values that applied to the harsh desert conditions of the 6th century AD.

If they no not adapt and integrate they will inevitably face problems.

Of course, many do and are very successful - and the very best of luck to them. But too many don´t

Quite right, these uncomfortable truths about separate cultures have to be faced and talked about.

Some people do integrate but its so diffcult to "force" this.

And i think its absolutely nuts that before the "terror raids" yesterday "community leaders" were "consulted".

Since when did a treasonous threat to national security require the police to consult with anyone for fear offence be taken.

Utterly bonkers. this sort of shite needs to stop and these evil people treated just exactly for what they are ; for heaven's sake why are we apologising for this?

i'm normally quite PC but i can't understand why, when larg(ish) sections of a community, who have chose to live here, hold views which are totally incompatible with a civilised way of life, they don't just leave if they hate it so much .What evil we have living in our midst.

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World War Three started a few years ago, it's just now people are realising we're "in it" (innit?!) -

The cold war was world war 3. It is spun by western governments as a nose to nose test of nerves.

It was actually a war fought by proxy and had a death count in the tens of millions.

But they were all brown or black people, so not worthy of note in the grand scheme of things (ironic in case you missed it).

What were in now, its not world war 3.

.

Edited by geneer

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I am trying to get at whether the West are tired of peace and we actually want another major war. Its been 60 years now since the last real fight and as war is endemic to the human state (7,000-odd years of known history and perhaps a few hundred of those years that were peaceful) we naturally gravitate toward it. Its exciting, fulfilling and there is nothing like a bit of flag waving. The Falklands War aroused a little of that and didn't we love it when the news of victories came over the TV or radio?

Again, I am NOT advocating violence merely suggesting that there is something built into us that gravitates to war. Look at our favourite form of entertainment next to Fools and Horses--its usually war or some other form of violence. Video games are practice runs for the real thing. Anyone like watching the smart bombs hit their target and watching the building blast in every direction? Notice the number of nostalgic films on WW2 and how things were better then when we all pulled together against a common enemy? We are looking for that enemy again and the terrorists won't do--they just make us frustrated and killing them only brings temporary satisfaction.

Its all a shattering indictment on the human state but I fear it is an accurate one. Peace on earth would be wonderful but, like Utopia, people get in the way.

For my stock market trading I use Elliott Wave analysis, this presumes progression in price followed by partial regression, this pattern exists over all timescales from matters of minutes to the grand super-cycle wave which started around 1700 with the coffee shops of London. Elliot wave theorists conclude that fundamental valuation does not determine stock prices, but social mood does. Bear markets start with a declining social mood and only finish when social mood can't get any worse.

The world always has it's troubles but I'm sure it is not just my subjective oppinion that there seems to be one hell of a lot of confict in the world now, just after the markets started falling. Some Elliot wave theorists believe we are in the next leg lower of a grand-supercycle bear market which will see a larger % drop on Wall St than the 1929 crash. If we get peak oil, climate change and war then who knows?

As a final thought supposing all social mood in homo sapiens runs on such cycles this could explain how the relative progression of ancient Greece and Rome was followed by the Dark and Middle ages. Islam at this time was going through a renaissance. Art, poetry, Mathematics and Astronomy, medecine, they exceeded anything Europe could offer during the middle ages, indeed they co-existed peacefully with the Jews for many centuries. Fast forward to today and even being dealt the oil card there is scarely a Muslim democracy to speak of. Sharia law has been enforced with the dogmatic inflexibility the

Spanish inquisition would have been proud of. Then we have honour killings, female circumcision, death for homosexuals, adulterers, blasphemers and apostates, suicide bombers and missiles to rain death on those who oppose their views and so on.

Of course neocon America is certainly not sweetness and light but it takes two to tango and I share your fears that things will end very badly indeed. :(

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Well, there we are. The ADL, Board of Deputies and World Jewish Congress have been warning about an increase in anti-Semitism since the start of the 2nd Intifada and judging by the outrageously anti-Jewish posts here (mostly I imagine from the white middle classes), they are correct. I initially thought they were a little alarmist, but now if anything, they have underestimated anti-Semitism in Western Europe (UK and France).

What a bankrupt society we live in if 9/11, 7/7, Beslan, Madrid, Bali etc &c is blamed on the Jews instead of pointing out that these atrocities were perputrated by Moslems. It's all very sad but not unsurprising. The Jewish people have been persecuted, more or less, since the beginning of time and the current climate is perhaps just a continuation of this. :( On the bright side, that shared history of persecution makes the Jewish people what they are today and what they'll always be :)

Any white middle class lawyers going flying to the USA soon? Enjoy the flight - hey have a can of Sprite on me :lol:

Does anyone else find Sharmanator's posts unusual? I'm trying to work out whether he really is a highly vocal Zionist, or someone trying to post extreme and inflamatory views with the intention of creating distrust of Jews. Any thoughts?

Edited by a j

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I just think he's an @rse.

'By way of deception, thou shalt wage war' Thats the Mossad official motto. They were busted before doing false flag ops in India years back, when they had an operative arrested who was posing as a Muslim holy man.

Maybe they tried that muslim trick again...who can tell?

If they did; nice one. You didnt half set a ball rolling amongst the young and the angry Muslims with that one! :huh:

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there is scarely a Muslim democracy to speak of

Because it's impossible. If you don't agree with them, you deserve, in their eyes, to die painfully. Even if you do agree with them, and you're a woman, you have no say. It's not possible to be a democrat and a muslim at the same time.

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Does anyone else find Sharmanator's posts unusual? I'm trying to work out whether he really is a highly vocal Zionist, or someone trying to post extreme and inflamatory views with the intention of creating distrust of Jews. Any thoughts?

From a different perspective--a historical-theological one. According to Judeo-Christian teaching God selected Abraham (a Chaldean--Iraaqi) who received an irrevocable covenant which included the future prophecy that he would provide the bloodline for an eventual Messiah to come to redeem the world from its inevitable path of destruction because of the human race's rebellion against God's laws (against adultery, murder (pre-meditated homicide), theft, lack of respect for a neighbour or their stuff, following deviant lifestyles that led away from the basic precepts of human value and conduct and relationship with the Lawgiver etc.).

Abraham had two sons. One out of wedlock because his wife seemed too old for child bearing, and one that came later that was part of the bloodline that would lead to the coming of the Messiah. Thus began the seeds of the Middle Eastern conflict that raged from around 2500 BC to today with a few short intervals between.

From the beginning it has been the objective of those who oppose the descendants of Abraham (they did not become identified as a separate nation until much later, first known as Hebrews and much later as Jews) to destroy his descendants and thus destroy any possibility of a Messiah. Genocide against the Jews began with the Babylonian (Modern day Iraaq) captivity around 630 BC. However, a remnant was allowed to live in Babylon after Jerusalem was destroyed where they remained for about 75 years. During the "captivity" the Jews retained a sense of indentity. When the Persian Empire (modern day Iran) wiped out the Babylonian Empire the Jewish remant found favour with the Persian ruler and were permitted to return to Jerusalem where a rebuilding project was undertaken with Persian protection. Despite the apparent good relations with Persia several plots emerged which were designed to destory the Jewish nation but which were again thwarted through a marriage between a Jewish woman (Esther) and the ruler of Persia.

The next attempt at genocide occured after the dissolution of Alexander's Empire around 300 AD. As Alexander did not leave a successor his huge empire was divided among his generals with Seleucid taking over that part of the Empire than included Jerusalam. Israel at that time were ruled by the Maccabean dynasty who eventually revolted against the Greek ruler who had attempted to annihilate them and to desecrate their Temple by coating its walls with pig fat (the cleansing of the Temple by the Maccabean leader is celbrated by Jews today as Hunnakah). The Maccabeans won the day and the Jewish state remained in relative peace until the next wave of attack came in the form of the Roman Empire. Rome set about attempting to wipe the Jews off the face of the earth after an uneasy relationship of about 100 years when, in AD70, the Roman emperor ordered the total destruction of Israel which lead to the dispersion of the remaining Jews to the four corners of the Roman Empire.

The rest of the story will be familiar to the historians. The Jews continued to face persecution throughout Europe including a few genocide attempts by Russia, France and most recently Germany-Austria. In 1948 the Jews returned to their homeland and rebuilt their community more or less from scratch upon desert wasteland. The attempts at genocide have continued ever-since.

For those that believe in a spiritual dimension, the real battle has not really been between flesh and blood but between the powers of spiritual darkness and God. The objective of the darkside is to destroy the power of the Messiah and his followers. Thus to kill all the Jews was to destroy the bloodline that would produce the Messiah. Although most Jews do not accept that the Messiah came in the form of Jesus, they do expect him to return at the end of the age to fulfill all of the OT prophecies and to redeem the people of God. From the Christian perspective this same Messiah was, of course, Jesus who came in the first instance to build a spiritual Empire (through inward conversion) and who will return at the end of the age to build an actual Kingdom with a new heaven and earth.

The attempt to destroy the bloodline that led to the birth of Jesus failed as Jesus was born (despite Herod--an Arab monarch placed over the Jews by the Romans, who ordered the destruction of all male Jewish children after he was given a prophecy that he would die because of the coming of the Jewish Messiah). The spiritual war is now thought to be between God's people (any who place their belief and trust in Jesus without regard to ethnicity) and the powers of darkness whose goal is not to prevent the Messiah from returning (impossible because the next coming will be inevitable) but to cause unbelief and turning away from God. Despite the promise of redemption being given to all ethnic groups, the Jews are still the object of an irrevocable covenant which is why the forces of spiritual darkness are still bent on wiping the Jews off the face of the earth.

Some may consider the whole thing a fairytale or a plot by a group wanting to corner the world's gold market. But whatever your belief, the above is the approximate belief of a significant number of people. It explains, on a spiritual level, why Israel is the center of the world's attention despite its uselessness as a land of natural resources and its tiny size and non-strategic location. Jews are either hated or respected. There seems to be little gray area. The annihilation of the Jews has formed the top priority of foreign policy of most of the world's great empires or superpowers. The nation stands exactly between Asia and Europe. Beneath its surface lies the deepest seismic fault line known. Many politicians, both religious and secular, accept the very real possibility that the nuclear holocaust that we all fear is to come will be triggered because of that tiny, usless piece of land that contains the world's most persecuted ethnic group in all of human history. Co-incidence? Maybe, but then again maybe not.

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  • 317 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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