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Brown Is Totalitarian Nutcase?

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Why are NuLabour so in love with the idea total of surveillence and so keen to share its possibilities with their big biz cronies?

'Sources' close to Chancellor Gordon Brown are floating plans to finish off ID cards entirely in the UK - although that isn't quite how they're putting it. Instead, the advance men for the Prime Minister in waiting are offering a nightmare pitch that harnesses the private sector to implement a total surveillance system while raking in revenue for the Government.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/07/brown_id_expansion/

Edited by CrashedOutAndBurned

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I don't have any problem at all with surveillance. "Big Brother" would have absolutely no interest in me unless I was acting against the greater good of society. I really don't care that someone somewhere could discover what I bought in the supermarket last week. They can do that already.

If the authorities knew exactly who was in the country at any one time, and had the ability to work out where everyone was and what they were doing at a given point, perhaps we'd have much less crime. Fine by me.

I also think that we should have our DNA recorded at birth or when new immigrants arrive. Another good anti-crime measure. If you could make society more orderly think how much more money would be available for financing socially useful programs which would further diminish the conditions that give rise to criminal behaviour and social unrest.

In short, we'd all be happier.

ID cards? Bring them on. It's time to start freaking out the troublemakers.

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ID cards? Bring them on. It's time to start freaking out the troublemakers.

It's got nothing to do with monitoring 'troublemakers' - they can circumvent ANY system set in place - computer technology is particularly easy to crack and hack

All technology is based on the premise that - once you can measure something - you can control it....

This technology is to monitor/measure law abiding tax 'drones' - and 'terrorism' is being used as a PR tool to force it through - there is a larger agenda driving all this

Edited by dnd

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Guest grumpy-old-man

I don't have any problem at all with surveillance. "Big Brother" would have absolutely no interest in me unless I was acting against the greater good of society. I really don't care that someone somewhere could discover what I bought in the supermarket last week. They can do that already.

If the authorities knew exactly who was in the country at any one time, and had the ability to work out where everyone was and what they were doing at a given point, perhaps we'd have much less crime. Fine by me.

I also think that we should have our DNA recorded at birth or when new immigrants arrive. Another good anti-crime measure. If you could make society more orderly think how much more money would be available for financing socially useful programs which would further diminish the conditions that give rise to criminal behaviour and social unrest.

In short, we'd all be happier.

ID cards? Bring them on. It's time to start freaking out the troublemakers.

do you know how easy it is to open a word document & edit the text ? rename the file, change the data ?

you wil be a word document in 10 years time :ph34r: but as long as you don't have an opinion that disagrees with the government or piss anyone off in highish places your file might remain unaltered ;)

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It's got nothing to do with monitoring 'troublemakers' - they can circumvent ANY system set in place - computer technology is particularly easy to crack and hack

All technology is based on the premise that - once you can measure something - you can control it....

This technology is to monitor law abiding tax 'drones' - and 'terrorism' is being used as a PR tool to force it through - there is a larger agenda driving all this

What's the larger agenda?

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An ID card that is a sure fire way of making it easier to commit identity fraud as we become too reliant on biometrics. The article in the register picked up on this nicely. It goes without saying really. An ID card that is 100% accurate also has the nasty effect of putting a price on various body parts in order to gain access with fingerprints, retina scans etc. Again, the article picks up on this. I am inclined to agree that when commercial principles are applied to the whole ID card proposal, the ID card scheme in its current form just wouldn't float as there are no demonstrable cost savings to society which cannot be achieved by cheaper means. We need more intelligent data mining and linking of existing systems to track ID and benefits fraud, not some stupid piece of government plastic which placates the ministers in whitehall who want to award lucrative contracts to the american corporations that would no doubt benefit from the implementation of the ID card scheme with the accompanying kickbacks to the ministers involved. NuLabor is just piling the gravy into the troughs of various companies like EDS in its orgy of waste of tax payers money.

Edited by BarrelShifter

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So you want DNA recorded from birth do you?

All I'd need to do to set someone up for a crime would be to ......

make sure said person has no alabi, i.e. just sat at home *****ing off to trisha etc, then go and commit the crime, lets say murder and after making sure I've left no trace linking the crime to me (harder than it seems obviously) i would strategically place either a fag end, or piece of spat out chuddy (that's chewing gum for the educated amongst you) that I had conveniently acquired in a dastardly manner some time earlier.

Whilst this might not be enough to convict said person, it goes to show how easy it would be to waste police time and make a mockery of forensic evidence.

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What's the larger agenda?

I don't know but I think it's got something to do with an*l probes...

Edited by dnd

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So you want DNA recorded from birth do you?

All I'd need to do to set someone up for a crime would be to ......

make sure said person has no alabi, i.e. just sat at home *****ing off to trisha etc, then go and commit the crime, lets say murder and after making sure I've left no trace linking the crime to me (harder than it seems obviously) i would strategically place either a fag end, or piece of spat out chuddy (that's chewing gum for the educated amongst you) that I had conveniently acquired in a dastardly manner some time earlier.

Whilst this might not be enough to convict said person, it goes to show how easy it would be to waste police time and make a mockery of forensic evidence.

Exactly. That's my fear of the whole DNA fingerprinting scam - it's an invitation to a corrupt government and judicial system to indulge in random fit-ups which can be made to make the crime figures look good as well as "disappear" activists and various other irritants to the big brother government.

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Guest grumpy-old-man

An ID card that is a sure fire way of making it easier to commit identity fraud as we become too reliant on biometrics. The article in the register picked up on this nicely. It goes without saying really. An ID card that is 100% accurate also has the nasty effect of putting a price on various body parts in order to gain access with fingerprints, retina scans etc. Again, the article picks up on this. I am inclined to agree that when commercial principles are applied to the whole ID card proposal, the ID card scheme in its current form just wouldn't float as there are no demonstrable cost savings to society which cannot be achieved by cheaper means. We need more intelligent data mining and linking of existing systems to track ID and benefits fraud, not some stupid piece of government plastic which placates the ministers in whitehall who want to award lucrative contracts to the american corporations that would no doubt benefit from the implementation of the ID card scheme with the accompanying kickbacks to the ministers involved. NuLabor is just piling the gravy into the troughs of various companies like EDS in its orgy of waste of tax payers money.

within a month of releasing the unbreakable & non copyable biometric card, they will be selling copies for a fiver on ebay :rolleyes:

you made some good points BS

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do you know how easy it is to open a word document & edit the text ? rename the file, change the data ?

you wil be a word document in 10 years time :ph34r: but as long as you don't have an opinion that disagrees with the government or piss anyone off in highish places your file might remain unaltered ;)

Sorry, I don't follow you.

In what sense will I "be a Word document in 10 years time"?

What text would be edited and by whom?

I don't understand what you mean about having an opinion that "disagrees with the government". Do you mean the Cabinet? The wider party? There are plenty of Labour MPs who disagree with the government for heaven's sake not to mention the Opposition and the media. It's not illegal, and never will be, to disagree with the government. If I disagree with them I will vote against them.

No, this is just your Mad Max/computer game/ futuristic Armageddon mindset that a lot of people on here are cripppled by. You can't distinguish reality from absent-minded alarmist fantasy.

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Sorry, I don't follow you.

In what sense will I "be a Word document in 10 years time"?

What text would be edited and by whom?

I don't understand what you mean about having an opinion that "disagrees with the government". Do you mean the Cabinet? The wider party? There are plenty of Labour MPs who disagree with the government for heaven's sake not to mention the Opposition and the media. It's not illegal, and never will be, to disagree with the government. If I disagree with them I will vote against them.

No, this is just your Mad Max/computer game/ futuristic Armageddon mindset that a lot of people on here are cripppled by. You can't distinguish reality from absent-minded alarmist fantasy.

You're right. Orwell was just lucky in guessing the way things would end up. Soylent green anyone? I don't see tha being to far fetched to be honest.

Edited by Jimothy

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An ID card that is a sure fire way of making it easier to commit identity fraud as we become too reliant on biometrics. The article in the register picked up on this nicely. It goes without saying really. An ID card that is 100% accurate also has the nasty effect of putting a price on various body parts in order to gain access with fingerprints, retina scans etc. Again, the article picks up on this. I am inclined to agree that when commercial principles are applied to the whole ID card proposal, the ID card scheme in its current form just wouldn't float as there are no demonstrable cost savings to society which cannot be achieved by cheaper means. We need more intelligent data mining and linking of existing systems to track ID and benefits fraud, not some stupid piece of government plastic which placates the ministers in whitehall who want to award lucrative contracts to the american corporations that would no doubt benefit from the implementation of the ID card scheme with the accompanying kickbacks to the ministers involved. NuLabor is just piling the gravy into the troughs of various companies like EDS in its orgy of waste of tax payers money.

You're being silly.

Are you suggesting that some people want ID cards in the hope that..... that they will be personally responsible for awarding IT contracts to..... American conglomerates, which they will do so on the basis of..... how much they will be bribed?

Jesus Christ.

All the nuts are coming out tonight.

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Guest grumpy-old-man

Sorry, I don't follow you.

In what sense will I "be a Word document in 10 years time"?

What text would be edited and by whom?

I don't understand what you mean about having an opinion that "disagrees with the government". Do you mean the Cabinet? The wider party? There are plenty of Labour MPs who disagree with the government for heaven's sake not to mention the Opposition and the media. It's not illegal, and never will be, to disagree with the government. If I disagree with them I will vote against them.

No, this is just your Mad Max/computer game/ futuristic Armageddon mindset that a lot of people on here are cripppled by. You can't distinguish reality from absent-minded alarmist fantasy.

BF, I wish I could come & live in your nice safe & secure world with my family & have your optimistic view on everything. :(

I am by nature a very optimistic person in many personal areas of my life, the bits I can control, but the wider picture is getting very blurred in the UK & World & it will be very, very different in 10 years time...trust me.

I sense a bad tone in your reply is the impending crraassshhh & looming recession/depression worrying you ?

Edited by grumpy-old-man

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You're being silly.

Are you suggesting that some people want ID cards in the hope that..... that they will be personally responsible for awarding IT contracts to..... American conglomerates, which they will do so on the basis of..... how much they will be bribed?

Jesus Christ.

All the nuts are coming out tonight.

How else do you explain EDS getting contract after contract after screw up after screw up? Wake up and smel the bull shit. It Bloody STINKS!

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So you want DNA recorded from birth do you?

All I'd need to do to set someone up for a crime would be to ......

make sure said person has no alabi, i.e. just sat at home *****ing off to trisha etc, then go and commit the crime, lets say murder and after making sure I've left no trace linking the crime to me (harder than it seems obviously) i would strategically place either a fag end, or piece of spat out chuddy (that's chewing gum for the educated amongst you) that I had conveniently acquired in a dastardly manner some time earlier.

Whilst this might not be enough to convict said person, it goes to show how easy it would be to waste police time and make a mockery of forensic evidence.

Plant DNA evidence? You could do that now if you wanted to, just as you could plant a fingerprint or leave other incriminating evidence.

Nothing to do with when the DNA sample is taken. Taken at birth, it would mean far fewer people getting away with serious crime. Police have thousands of unsolved crimes with DNA evidence filed away, waiting for someone to commit a burglary or whatever so that they can legally take a sample.

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Plant DNA evidence? You could do that now if you wanted to, just as you could plant a fingerprint or leave other incriminating evidence.

Nothing to do with when the DNA sample is taken. Taken at birth, it would mean far fewer people getting away with serious crime. Police have thousands of unsolved crimes with DNA evidence filed away, waiting for someone to commit a burglary or whatever so that they can legally take a sample.

Yes you could but the police wouldn't have a database that could bring up a name within an hour or so.

If the technology is there and can be misused, it will be misused.

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How else do you explain EDS getting contract after contract after screw up after screw up? Wake up and smel the bull shit. It Bloody STINKS!

People tend to stick with what they know and big IT projects are difficult enough as it is....

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Guest grumpy-old-man

Plant DNA evidence? You could do that now if you wanted to, just as you could plant a fingerprint or leave other incriminating evidence.

Nothing to do with when the DNA sample is taken. Taken at birth, it would mean far fewer people getting away with serious crime. Police have thousands of unsolved crimes with DNA evidence filed away, waiting for someone to commit a burglary or whatever so that they can legally take a sample.

yeah, the theory sounds great....but in practice :o

we have a very corrupt police force & government & if you can't see that I am very surprised, giving them more "tools" just makes it worse.

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Exactly. That's my fear of the whole DNA fingerprinting scam - it's an invitation to a corrupt government and judicial system to indulge in random fit-ups which can be made to make the crime figures look good as well as "disappear" activists and various other irritants to the big brother government.

Sigh. Bladerunner and 1984 have a lot to answer for.

For heaven's sake, learn to distinguish reality from the stuff you watch at the cinema. 1984 is a great book but er, it isn't real y'know.

You're complaining about something that exists only in your imagination.

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People tend to stick with what they know and big IT projects are difficult enough as it is....

Exactly, so the ID card would be a complete disaster as EDS have proven how useless they are. They hire students on placements, pay them a half decent salary for a placement year and let them send joke emails around all day long. 3 of my mates did exactly that. Would you want eff-wits like that dealing wih your personal information when they are still hungover from the night before?

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  • 337 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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