Omg - Why Are The Germans Involved In Our Water?

[heather5]

What a scarey thought - have just turned to Panorama on BBC1 - to discover that the Germans own a large part of Thames Wataer.

I've accepted the hikes, the stories of what they are trying to do, even accepted their excuses - but until now had no idea that there were foreign investors involved on such a large scale.

How on earth is it that something as fundamental as water supply is in the hands of foreign investors?

When the hell did that happen?

Anyone out there with a knowledge of this industry who can shed light on this?

I'm living in a single studio - only use a shower and only do my washing-up when there's enough to do - and I use a laundrette although I have a washing machine. I turn off the tap when I brush my teeth. I am really careful with water.

Yet my water rates go up. Along with all the rest.

But someone explain how are the Germans involved in Thames Water!

[IamSpartacus]

What a scarey thought - have just turned to Panorama on BBC1 - to discover that the Germans own a large part of Thames Wataer.

I've accepted the hikes, the stories of what they are trying to do, even accepted their excuses - but until now had no idea that there were foreign investors involved on such a large scale.

How on earth is it that something as fundamental as water supply is in the hands of foreign investors?

When the hell did that happen?

Anyone out there with a knowledge of this industry who can shed light on this?

I'm living in a single studio - only use a shower and only do my washing-up when there's enough to do - and I use a laundrette although I have a washing machine. I turn off the tap when I brush my teeth. I am really careful with water.

Yet my water rates go up. Along with all the rest.

But someone explain how are the Germans involved in Thames Water!

Because WWII is over...

[Garry AKA Pod]

Because WWII is over...

Yes, and we've been shafted ever since. Lease lend anyone?

We have been sold out by countless governments. I'm planning my escape.

[IamSpartacus]

Yes, and we've been shafted ever since. Lease lend anyone?

We have been sold out by countless governments. I'm planning my escape.

Try digging a tunnel with a teaspoon

[Rachel]

Because WWII is over...

lol! the French do the trains and the Spanish do the airports...and i'm sure we Brits have control over commodities in other countries. It's the way of the world these days.

Jeremy Vine did a report on his show about the Spanish buying into our airports and was trying to argue that they wouldn't do the job very well, anyway he came across with a very poor arguement and sounded like an idiot.

Even if a British company owned the water company, prices would still go up.

[faloos]

Because WWII is over...

Thats why I admire the French as they wont let anyone touch their state assets. We have sold everything , Pakistanis , indians buying proerty on a big scale. Would you want to buy property in Karachi or Bombay ? even if you did you would not be allowed too. We are so stupid !!

[Rachel]

Thats why I admire the French as they wont let anyone touch their state assets. We have sold everything , Pakistanis , indians buying proerty on a big scale. Would you want to buy property in Karachi or Bombay ? even if you did you would not be allowed too. We are so stupid !!

well that's the government for you...need some cash? lets sell EVERYTHING!

It's a typical government plan, short term thinking only...they never think long term

[IamSpartacus]

Thats why I admire the French as they wont let anyone touch their state assets. We have sold everything , Pakistanis , indians buying proerty on a big scale. Would you want to buy property in Karachi or Bombay ? even if you did you would not be allowed too. We are so stupid !!

Actually, having been to Mumbai (to use the preferred name) I'd be very tempted to live there if I could afford to. Some of the nicer parts (I particularly like the bits near India Gate) have house prices that would seem expensive even by our standards. And I believe large numbers of foreign investors do own property in those areas...

Admire the French? Well, I suppose it takes all sorts...

[The Fish]

What a scarey thought - have just turned to Panorama on BBC1 - to discover that the Germans own a large part of Thames Wataer.

I've accepted the hikes, the stories of what they are trying to do, even accepted their excuses - but until now had no idea that there were foreign investors involved on such a large scale.

How on earth is it that something as fundamental as water supply is in the hands of foreign investors?

When the hell did that happen?

Anyone out there with a knowledge of this industry who can shed light on this?

I'm living in a single studio - only use a shower and only do my washing-up when there's enough to do - and I use a laundrette although I have a washing machine. I turn off the tap when I brush my teeth. I am really careful with water.

Yet my water rates go up. Along with all the rest.

But someone explain how are the Germans involved in Thames Water!

You'll probably find the Russians own your gas

[Garry AKA Pod]

You'll probably find the Russians own your gas

Believe me, nobody would want to own "my gas" :-)

[IamSpartacus]

Believe me, nobody would want to own "my gas" :-)

[crash2006]

This is how it works, a german company buys uk company (britain says we'll help you afford it), german company pays taxs to the german government, thus we are losing taxes from the large companies.

a german company wants to buy a spanish energy company, spains says no its of national security.

We have open our doors yet all other european nations havent, we dont have anything they have everything.

[IamSpartacus]

This is how it works, a german company buys uk company (britain says we'll help you afford it), german company pays taxs to the german government, thus we are losing taxes from the large companies.

a german company wants to buy a spanish energy company, spains says no its of national security.

We have open our doors yet all other european nations havent, we dont have anything they have everything.

Nonsense - according to their latest financial statements Thames Water paid £100,600,000 tax to the UK Treasury in the last 12 months. Besides, it also says in the statements that the parent company are also planning to divest the water business in the near future so you don't have to worry about those nasty foreigners owning our state assets for much longer...

[crash2006]

Nonsense - according to their latest financial statements Thames Water paid £100,600,000 tax to the UK Treasury in the last 12 months. Besides, it also says in the statements that the parent company are also planning to divest the water business in the near future so you don't have to worry about those nasty foreigners owning our state assets for much longer...

i cant remember how it was dont i remember something about diverting profits to the german water infrasture.

Edited August 6, 2006 by crash2006

[faloos]

Actually, having been to Mumbai (to use the preferred name) I'd be very tempted to live there if I could afford to. Some of the nicer parts (I particularly like the bits near India Gate) have house prices that would seem expensive even by our standards. And I believe large numbers of foreign investors do own property in those areas...

Admire the French? Well, I suppose it takes all sorts...

First point.Just to correct you Mumbai is not the preferredname it is actually the old name as it changed over the years . Say Mumbai quickly over and over and you will hear yourself saying Bombay.

Second point. You evaded thebuying of property in Bombay because as a british citizen you cannot as it is against the law , now do you undrstand my point. Please do not insult my Scots education.

[IamSpartacus]

First point.Just to correct you Mumbai is not the preferredname it is actually the old name as it changed over the years . Say Mumbai quickly over and over and you will hear yourself saying Bombay.

Not true. Allow me to quote from the Lonely Planet guide to the city...

Bombay played a formative role in the struggle for Independence, hosting the first Indian National Congress in 1885 and the launch of the 'Quit India' campaign in 1942. After Independence the city became capital of the Bombay Presidency but this was divided on linguistic grounds into Maharashtra and Gujarat in 1960. Since then, a massive influx of rural (especially Maharashtran) migrants has strained the city's infrastructure and altered its demographics. The most unfortunate development was the rise of a militant pro-Marathi regionalist movement, spearheaded by the Shiv Sena municipal government, which shook the city's multicultural foundations by discriminating against non-Maharashtrans and Muslims....

In 1996 the Shiv Sena officially renamed the city Mumbai. The change of name led to linguistic confusion, and signalled the intention of the Maharashtra state government to assert the city's Marathi identity.

The 'Chinese whisper' theory was an interesting alternative explanation though!

Second point. You evaded thebuying of property in Bombay because as a british citizen you cannot as it is against the law , now do you undrstand my point. Please do not insult my Scots education.

I hadn't realised this but yes, you're right. This ties in well with general economic protectionism, such as not allowing the currency to be expatriated and having different fees for non-Indians for train tickets, entry to tourist sites etc. Understandable really, given their status as a developing nation and something I would expect to change over time. Besides, like most things in India I'm sure a bit of baksheesh would allow one to overcome the rules.

Insult your scots education? I wouldn't dare...

[Bucephalus]

But someone explain how are the Germans involved in Thames Water!

Before you start fighting the war again, consider this:

Trade

British-German trade is the largest of all EU member countries at a total of 95 billion Euro (2004), with UK to Germany at 34 billion Euro and Germany to UK at 61 billion Euro. These figures are expected to grow substantially in the next few years.

Businesses

Over 2400 German owned companies operate in the UK. About 3000 UK companies are operating in Germany through subsidiaries or affiliates.

British Investment in Germany: Jolly Good

Already Britain’s most important European export market, Germany is also a hot location for British investment capital. Some 3,000 British companies are operating through subsidiaries or affiliates in Germany. And a recent study shows a quarter of them intend to step up their activities. Their expansion plans are motivated by the same factors that draw investors to Germany from all over the world: market strength, skilled labor and first-rate infrastructure.

Commissioned jointly by the British Chamber of Commerce in Germany and the management consultancy Ernst & Young, the study identifies five characteristics that make Germany especially attractive for British companies. First and foremost is “market potential”. 59 percent of respondents said this was a decisive argument in Germany’s favor as a business location.

The second most alluring feature for British investors is the strength of Germany as a brand in itself - what the study calls “image/know-how”. Nearly a quarter of the companies surveyed said Germany’s highly qualified and motivated workforce is a major attraction. Finally, Germany’s central location and its outstanding R&D facilities round out the list of winning features.

The study notes that Germany’s location and infrastructure “complement each other in an ideal way”. It points out that Germany provides easy access to essential markets, “especially the future markets of Eastern Europe”. Moreover, despite misgivings among British investors regarding Germany’s location costs, they rate the country as an “above average” business location. Indeed, in what amounts to a glowing endorsement, the study concludes that Germany “could hardly be better prepared for the future.”

[Realistbear]

NBD IMO. German ownership of our water doesn't worry me too much. What is of more concern is Russian control of gas and other components of our industry.

The fabulous wealth that is pouring into Russia is being invested in this country and as we are an economy on the wane, foreign money will come to dominate. Jaguar and Landrover is being looked at by the Russians and it seems unlikely that they will keep production in this country given the high cost of housing and wages. GAZPROM is an arm of the Soviet, er...Russian, state and Putin intends to use its power to gain political leverage wherever he can. The new reality may be that Europe will have to accept the rising power of the NuSoviet Union as they hold the resources and have the friends in the Middle East to back them up.

[since the beginning]

Who cares if the Germans own it. As if english bosses / share holders are going to care for the british consumer anymore than german ones.

[BoredTrainBuilder]

Thats why I admire the French as they wont let anyone touch their state assets. We have sold everything , Pakistanis , indians buying proerty on a big scale. Would you want to buy property in Karachi or Bombay ? even if you did you would not be allowed too. We are so stupid !!

Why is that admirable? The French economy is not admirable, it has consigned a generation to unemployment.

[Pooh Bear]

How on earth is it that something as fundamental as water supply is in the hands of foreign investors?

IMO, the firesale of the UK's assets is a result of two factors: a sense of fair play, and the bankruptcy of UK PLC.

The UK signs all the EU agreements on fair trade, as do Germany, France, etc. The difference is that for the British, once you have signed a bit of paper saying you will do something, you have to do it. Our EU partners (especially the French) are more pragmatic. The sense of fair play has meant that any restrictions on foreigners buying UK assets has been lifted, as per the EU agreements. The thing is, the more pragmatic EU countries still resist foreign ownership; the tidal wave of cheap liquidity sloshing around the world has to be used to buy something, and bits of an old, stable & open economy that are easy to purchase make a safe bet.

The really annoying thing is when other EU citizens say that the UK isn't really pro Europe beause we're winging all the time about the EU legislation. The problem is that we winge because we're the only country that will properly enact & follow these laws; so we actually care what these laws say!

The French government owns 70% of EDF, which owns 3 of the largest electricity companies in the UK. Remember that feeling of being home on British soil when the plane wheels touch down on return from holiday? As Rachel says, since Ferrovial purchased BAA, you're now touching down on Spanish owned soil. As faloos says, could you imagine the French selling Charles De Gaulle airport?

The only positive point is that the sale of UK assets is beginning to slow down now. The sad thing is that this is because there is nothing left to sell.

[Bucephalus]

IMO, the firesale of the UK's assets is a result of two factors: a sense of fair play, and the bankruptcy of UK PLC.

The UK signs all the EU agreements on fair trade, as do Germany, France, etc. The difference is that for the British, once you have signed a bit of paper saying you will do something, you have to do it. Our EU partners (especially the French) are more pragmatic. The sense of fair play has meant that any restrictions on foreigners buying UK assets has been lifted, as per the EU agreements. The thing is, the more pragmatic EU countries still resist foreign ownership; the tidal wave of cheap liquidity sloshing around the world has to be used to buy something, and bits of an old, stable & open economy that are easy to purchase make a safe bet.

The really annoying thing is when other EU citizens say that the UK isn't really pro Europe beause we're winging all the time about the EU legislation. The problem is that we winge because we're the only country that will properly enact & follow these laws; so we actually care what these laws say!

The French government owns 70% of EDF, which owns 3 of the largest electricity companies in the UK. Remember that feeling of being home on British soil when the plane wheels touch down on return from holiday? As Rachel says, since Ferrovial purchased BAA, you're now touching down on Spanish owned soil. As faloos says, could you imagine the French selling Charles De Gaulle airport?

The only positive point is that the sale of UK assets is beginning to slow down now. The sad thing is that this is because there is nothing left to sell.

Since a wail of xenophobia is overwhelming this thread, let me run that by you again:

There are more British business in Germany than German business in the UK.

Businesses

Over 2400 German owned companies operate in the UK. About 3000 UK companies are operating in Germany through subsidiaries or affiliates.

Source: the British Chamber of Commerce in Germany (http://www.bccg.de/)

Edited August 7, 2006 by Bucephalus

[LazyDay]

Since a wail of xenophobia is overwhelming this thread, let me run that by you again:

There are more British business in Germany than German business in the UK.

Businesses

Over 2400 German owned companies operate in the UK. About 3000 UK companies are operating in Germany through subsidiaries or affiliates.

Source: the British Chamber of Commerce in Germany (http://www.bccg.de/)

In the eyes of many, WW2 has not finished yet apparently. I blame History Channel.

Germans manage their water pipes all right, why do you think they would manage yours

differently? Too much of History Channel?

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Isn't this called Globalisation. No wonder Mr Soros has turned against it! [no offence meant to the Germans! - just look at what European companies have done with essential services in the developing world]

Like faloos, I also admire the French and their economy - there's nothing wrong with that (Perhaps this is the Auld Alliance rearing its head again - I was educated in Scotland as well - no better place!).

Why the concern about the Germans anyway - thought you were cousins?

We're all German! How herr raising!

By ANDREW ROBERTS

For new research has apparently proved that most white males living in Britain today are genetically German, with Y chromosomes identical to people from Friesland, Holstein and Jutland.

According to Dr Mark Thomas and his team of biologists at University College, London, the Anglo-Saxons who invaded Britain from what is now Germany between the fifth and seventh centuries drove out the indigenous population of Celts.

Edited August 7, 2006 by gruffydd

[ronnie]

Doesnt warren buffett own (or used to own before giving it all away) utility companies in uk and germany? he only bought them recently, might be a good investment for the future! i do think such services should be in state hands as it costs the economy probably the same in long run to run these things in public or private hands but when public own it theres less profit motive etc. im generally in favor of privatisation but not for railways water and some other essential services