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Leak: Nulabour Plan To Expand Tolls, Congestion Charges

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/06082006/344/toll...ds-planned.html

More toll roads planned

The Press Association Sunday August 6, 07:51 AM

Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander is seeking powers to impose toll roads across the UK, according to reports.
In a leaked letter obtained by the Sunday Times, Mr Alexander spells out plans for a bill to be introduced next year to pave the way for the widespread use of tolls to combat road congestion.
At present, it is up to local authorities to propose road-charging schemes - such as London's congestion charge - for approval by ministers.
But in his letter, Mr Alexander argues that he should be able to set national standards and prices to prevent the confusion that would result if different cities adopted differing schemes.
Unlike the flat-rate daily charge imposed by Mayor Ken Livingstone in London, Mr Alexander's programme would see motorists charged on a pay-as-you-go basis,
with hi-tech black boxes in their cars recording how far they have driven on stretches of toll road.

And a central control to cut your car off if you owe parking fines etc? I think this is what happens when a government has been around too long, they start to become totalitarian.

At least Gordon's plan to allow 100's of thousands of immigrants into Britain in the next year will relieve the congestion a bit. :blink:

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If the extra tax received was spent on improving public transport so it was a genuinely viable alternative then I wouldn't mind.

Sadly it will most likely be swallowed up by the benefits bill / public sector pensions / public sector "jobs" full stop!

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If the extra tax received was spent on improving public transport so it was a genuinely viable alternative then I wouldn't mind.

Sadly it will most likely be swallowed up by the benefits bill / public sector pensions / public sector "jobs" full stop!

I mind. Once they can see and control where you go, Freedom of Association is next.

We are moving inexorably towards a police state.

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If the extra tax received was spent on improving public transport so it was a genuinely viable alternative then I wouldn't mind.

Sadly it will most likely be swallowed up by the benefits bill / public sector pensions / public sector "jobs" full stop!

Exactly!

Despite having some of the most expensive trains in the world, the services are infrequent and unreliable and the passengers treated like cattle. This government's response to every problem is to impose stealth taxes. They make promises which they seem congenitally incapable of fulfilling and the money then just gets wasted. Take GPs as an example. We now how have the highest paid GPs in the world and they don't even do call outs anymore.

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SKY picked up the story:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,301...1,00.html?f=rss

UK Road-Pricing Scheme
Updated: 11:35, Sunday August 06, 2006
The Transport Secretary is seeking powers to impose toll roads across Britain, according to a leaked document.
The Sunday Times has published a letter from Douglas Alexander claiming such tolls would help cut congestion and improve public transport.
He wants legislation next year to offer the possibility of a national road-pricing scheme in the future.
At present, it is up to local authorities to propose road-charging schemes - such as London's congestion charge - for approval by ministers.
But in his letter, Mr Alexander argues that he should be able to set national standards and prices to prevent the confusion that would result if different cities adopted differing schemes.
Advertisement
Mr Alexander's programme could see motorists charged on a pay-as-you-go basis, with hi-tech black boxes in their cars recording how far they have driven on stretches of toll road.
The letter to Leader of the Commons Jack Straw, dated July 20, makes clear that Mr Alexander is considering imposing charges not just in city centres but also on trunk roads.
"The main purpose of the bill would be to support our efforts to cut congestion and improve public transport, particularly in the major cities outside London," he wrote.
"We are considering pilots on the trunk road network as an important stage towards national road-pricing."
A Department for Transport spokeswoman said:
"The Government has been very clear about the need to explore road pricing as a way to tackle congestion.
"It is only right that we explore what legislation might be required to do this."
More on This Story:

The government has been clear about a lot of things that are extremely unpopular and the voters look forward to being equally clear at the next election. :angry:

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I mind. Once they can see and control where you go, Freedom of Association is next.

We are moving inexorably towards a police state.

Freedom of Association is already threatened by the use of dispersal orders. You don't have to have done anything wrong, you just have to be in a group of 2 or more people in a 'dispersal zone'.

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We need a written constitution with an embedded Bill of Rights. Personal freedom might be an attractive platform upon which to launch a Tory attack on the emerging NuLabour police state? I know David "Scotty" Cameron is working on such a project which will require a strong judiciary to stand up to the Home Office who have been running roughshod over Human Rights laws under the current regime.

I understand that NuLabour want to out law warning devices to tell you when a speed trap is coming up. Next will be laws against driving a car without a government black box to monitor where you go, when and for what purpose. The next generation of TVs will no doubt be two-way so that they can monitor activities in the home. 1984 a couple of decades late.

Edited by Realistbear

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We need a written constitution with an embedded Bill of Rights.

What difference would that make? It's been so successful in America, hasn't it?

However, this is just another reason why you'd have to be crazy to buy a house in the UK. It's like buying in the USSR just before Stalin came to power... yeah, that'll really be a market that people will be desperate to buy into.

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What difference would that make? It's been so successful in America, hasn't it?

However, this is just another reason why you'd have to be crazy to buy a house in the UK. It's like buying in the USSR just before Stalin came to power... yeah, that'll really be a market that people will be desperate to buy into.

You would be passing significant power to the Judges which will no doubt bring another kind of trouble! There are very powerful lobbies in the US that are against any form of totalitarianism. E.g. The Supreme Court overruled the ban of speed detectors in cars not because they helped you avoid a ticket but because you have a right to know if you are being monitored.

The US system has a lot of flaws but one of the strengths of their form of Constitutional Government is that Presidents can only occupy the White House for 8 years. Our Tony could conceivable last 15 years if this current Parlimanet runs to full term.

NuLabour is taking a totalitarian tack that is for sure. Surveillance cameras, black boxes in cars, congestion taxes restricting travel and two way TV screens are a little off-putting.

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You would be passing significant power to the Judges which will no doubt bring another kind of trouble! There are very powerful lobbies in the US that are against any form of totalitarianism. E.g. The Supreme Court overruled the ban of speed detectors in cars not because they helped you avoid a ticket but because you have a right to know if you are being monitored.

The US system has a lot of flaws but one of the strengths of their form of Constitutional Government is that Presidents can only occupy the White House for 8 years. Our Tony could conceivable last 15 years if this current Parlimanet runs to full term.

NuLabour is taking a totalitarian tack that is for sure. Surveillance cameras, black boxes in cars, congestion taxes restricting travel and two way TV screens are a little off-putting.

Nothing new here -all he is doing is looking around for things to tax because he has run out of cash.

In times of need we try to borrow or go to the pawn shop sorry !! i must get modern and say the cash converter shop .

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Gordon has run government spending up to 100% of GDP--he has no alternative than to tax. Inheritance tax, BTL, road useage, breathing--wjatever moves will be taxed. The Miracle Economy was expensive and now its time to pay.

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Surely the congestion is caused by unskilled workers all being selfish and trying to get to work, clogging up the roads for key workers like myself.

I find it infuriating when I travel into the office in my car finding loads of vans, and tatty cars clogging up the road.

I drives me mad sitting in traffic, knowing I could be in the office sorting out the publics refuse problems while they all make the problem worse by clogging up the roads when in fact they could use public transport.

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Surely the congestion is caused by unskilled workers all being selfish and trying to get to work, clogging up the roads for key workers like myself.

I find it infuriating when I travel into the office in my car finding loads of vans, and tatty cars clogging up the road.

I drives me mad sitting in traffic, knowing I could be in the office sorting out the publics refuse problems while they all make the problem worse by clogging up the roads when in fact they could use public transport.

And of course these unskilled workers have had the cheek to go and buy property causing HP to rise out of the reach of many key workers. Also being unskilled and uneducated they are only to happy to be part of Gordons master plan of MEW withdrawl and a love of credit

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And of course these unskilled workers have had the cheek to go and buy property causing HP to rise out of the reach of many key workers. Also being unskilled and uneducated they are only to happy to be part of Gordons master plan of MEW withdrawl and a love of credit

Apart from the great humour ! These plans are just another guise to screw money out of the public as Gordon is Scint and with no family silver to sell he cannot do anything more but tax us . Batten down the hatches for hard times ahead !!

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Many Journeys taken by the General Public are not required and simply hinder the progress of key workers to get on with their jobs of sorting out the public who are incapable of doing the most simplist of things themselves.

Having had the legacies of the Tories policies for a couple of decades to work with it is very difficult, but slowly we are all getting there.

A tax on the General Public is the only way we can redistribute the wealth to our brothers and comrades who have had to put up with much under the Tories for many years working in public services.

Its about time the public realised they are incapable of managing their own lives, and have a little more respect for those who are working on their behalfs.

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I think describing this as Nu Labour is a bit misleading.

Which parties oppose road user charging?

I'm probably out on a limb here by being a supporter of road use charging. I see queueing as inefficient and damaging to the environment.

I would however like to see the possibility of payment being anonymous somehow, like PAYG phones as they used to be. I can see the O/D and route choice data being very useful for transport planning purposes, but would like to see the data seperated from the individual identity.

btp

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Many Journeys taken by the General Public are not required and simply hinder the progress of key workers to get on with their jobs of sorting out the public who are incapable of doing the most simplist of things themselves.

Having had the legacies of the Tories policies for a couple of decades to work with it is very difficult, but slowly we are all getting there.

A tax on the General Public is the only way we can redistribute the wealth to our brothers and comrades who have had to put up with much under the Tories for many years working in public services.

Its about time the public realised they are incapable of managing their own lives, and have a little more respect for those who are working on their behalfs.

You are old labour and surely they are extinct, John prescott was working that evening on his behalf or was it his secretary. The labour experiment has gone terribly wrong and I am having a laugh about it.

Excuse me but was it this government that does not even know how many immigrants have actually arrived in this country. Are you saying that this government cares?

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Er... well something has to be done about traffic congestion. You cannot realistically expect the government to do nothing about it. Perhaps you have a better suggestion? Personally, I see driving as public behaviour and thus subject to sanction if its excess should be a public nuisance. At present we have a classic "tragedy of the commons" situation, which benefits nobody.

The government must be aware of the impact of increased oil imports on the national economy. They have to take action against car use because the bottom line tells them that they have to.

Some kind of rationing system is the only alternative.

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Er... well something has to be done about traffic congestion. You cannot realistically expect the government to do nothing about it. Perhaps you have a better suggestion? Personally, I see driving as public behaviour and thus subject to sanction if its excess should be a public nuisance. At present we have a classic "tragedy of the commons" situation, which benefits nobody.

The government must be aware of the impact of increased oil imports on the national economy. They have to take action against car use because the bottom line tells them that they have to.

Some kind of rationing system is the only alternative.

Every government has failed to introduce a properly funded public transport system which would serve the public. Surely this is the only answer. If it was efficient and of low cost then the great majority of people would use it.

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talking of transport, WHERE ARE THE FUEL PROTESTORS ?????????

diesel at £1 / litre and no blockades ??

has gordon done a deal with the hauliers to keep them at (loading) bay ?????

and are we all paying for it in taxes ?

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Er... well something has to be done about traffic congestion. You cannot realistically expect the government to do nothing about it.

The only thing the government has done 'nothing' about is building new roads. They've introduced all kinds of measures that _increase_ congestion, like bus lanes, speed bumps and other crap: 'congestion' has increased dramatically despite a relatively small increase in the number of cars and the distance travelled.

Congestion charging is absurd, because the government are experts at _CREATING_ congestion, and then we're supposed to pay them as a result. It's a pure tax on mobility, with the side-effect of funneling more money to their cronies in 'public transport' companies.

Why is it that if trains are packed, that's considered a sign of success and more trains are run? Yet if roads are packed that's considered a sign of failure and we must pay more for the roads we've already paid for many, many times over?

The funny thing, of course, is that if we did all stop driving and take buses and trains instead, the government would lose about 40,000,000,000 a year in taxes. They want to ****** motorists over, but don't want us to actually stop driving.

Every government has failed to introduce a properly funded public transport system which would serve the public. Surely this is the only answer. If it was efficient and of low cost then the great majority of people would use it.

But 'public transport' (aka privately-run bus and train companies) can't be efficient and low cost by its very nature. It was great when everyone got up at 5am in the same dingy terraces to go to work at t'mill, and all came home at 5pm, but today it's impossible to have a 'public transport' system which is anywhere near as efficient as a car without runnning millions of buses all around the country all day long, most of them empty.

Edited by MarkG

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I feel so ground down by this country. I think when this sh*t gets introduced I'm just going to have to find a way around it. I'm sure it will become widely known how to hack these black boxes. We will just have to make law-breaking a mainstream activity. Same when ID cards are introduced. If enough people defy the state what the hell can they do.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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