Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Tassy

Cornwall Crisis?

Recommended Posts

I am a newbie but have watched the housing market with interest for a bout 6 years now. I am extremely worried about Cornwall. It is evident that, whilst estate agents are overvaluing, houses are not shifting fast. The only properties I know are shifting are realistically priced ones. I have seen some properties on the market for 2 years plus.

My main concern is the 'con' which is potentially going to affect those of us who already live here even more and also those planning on relocating or retiring here. I call it a 'con' because Cornwall is actively being marketed as a dream retirement and relocation destination by those who offer relocation services and certain agents. One website, www.propertiescornwall.co.uk have a bit of worrying blurb.

They say, 'Relocation is becoming very popular...' and list all the great things, like the environment, (pre-incinerator!) and lifestyle opportunities. They go on to say, 'Although a small county', (sorry it's a Duchy!), 'all the amenities required for modern life can easily be found, broadband, leading brand supermarkets, good schools and healthcare...' Our schools are in the process of being amalgamated due to the notion of falling rolls. Village schools, like Lanreath I believe, are being threatened with closure. The county council already gets loads of transport appeals from people who have relocated down here and then find they can't get their kids into a local school. Education transport I further believe is possibly the biggest or one of the biggest county council expenditures already. Where and indeed how are all the children whose families are planning to relocate to the good life going to go to school?

Good healthcare? Ridiculous! Not to disrespect all those who do a wonderful job with shoestring budgets within health, but RCHT is millions of pounds in debt! We are being threatened with closures and reduction of services to some of our smaller hospitals like St Michael's in Hayle and West Cornwall Hospital in Penzance. How is this going to affect those of us already here not to mention the 109,000 older people forecast to retire here over a 10 year period? (This was in the final speech of former leader John Lobb at the last meeting of last term's county council).

Why is Cornwall being actively marketed as a retirement and family relocation haven when our services are about to collapse into meltdown? This is totally unfair to those who live here and to those who think everything will be wonderful if they relocate. The emphasis on relocation is a major driver of over inflated house prices in Cornwall which is in turn the biggest cause of first time buyers and local families being priced out of the market. I dare say it is probably true of other coastal and rural areas, but Cornwall is really being pushed as the retirement and relocation destination of choice.

These are fundamental things. If families move down and cannot get children to school this can be the kind of thing that causes major stress. Many people I know who have relocated down with a partner have broken up due the problems they meet that they were not anticipating. Business and work wise it's difficult to ensure all year 'round income, kids have to be driven miles to school, possibly no family support while they are finding their feet in a new place etc. With regards to older people, underfunded and overstretched resources can result in lowered life expectancy or even death at the very worse end. It is completely unfair to lead people to believe that they are moving to a wonderful life full of sand, sun, sea and services when the reality is we can't cope with the changes to our demography without major funding boosts from Westminster.

The trouble is if you talk about trying to make people think twice about moving down you are accused of being anti-incomer, yet people should be given all the facts. They should have to stop and think, what if I can't find a school? or Can I cope with only one A+E dept an hours drive away? otherwise you are enouraging people to take chances that could seriously adversly affect their lives. I am certainly not a nationalist, although I freely admit I believe Cornwall is constitutionally and culturally distinct. Many moons ago I, too, relocated. It can be hard, I speak from experience and I think the major problem with our house prices being so high here is that Cornwall is far too actively being promoted as a dream relocation destination. I just hope the dream doesn't turn into a nightmare.

Sorry to have waffled on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The demographics are a dangerous indication of the shape of thigs to come in the UK - huge number of old people being supported by a handful of workers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't looked at, or posted on this site, for about a couple of years. Out of interest I logged on to see what people were going on about now, given that a crash hasn't exactly happened. Much the same thing really. We're all basically doomed. And I'm sure if I logged on again in another couple of years, I'd be reading exactly the same. Meanwhile people not plunged into fear by some of the entries on this site will have got on with their lives and bought a house. To live in and enjoy, not in expectation of a great financial gain because we know that isn't going to happen.

I disagree with Tassy. People are re-locating to Cornwall simply because it is a great place to live. No-one is stupid enough, surely, to bring their kids down without first having got them into a school. If anything, schools will improve and supply will meet demand. Village schools (at least the villages people want to live in) may well be saved by people relocating.

As for hospitals - well I live in St Ives and Hayle and Penzance are far more convenient for me than RCCH. But I have a child with severe health problems and I would choose every time to attend RCCH simply because a bigger hospital has greater resources. Small hospitals were fine when healthcare didn't entail expensive treatments and equipment. It's just evolution. I moved back to Cornwall ten years ago and the first thing I checked out before I even looked for a house were the schools and the hospitals. I'm sure I'm not the only person sensible enough to do that.

Cornwall is apparently becoming an area of creativity in IT to rival Brighton. If this is the case this will bring more wealth into the county, which in turn means greater investment in its infrastructure. Local people (and my family are all Cornish) may well be struggling to get on the housing ladder. They are elsewhere in the country too. But local people are also living in houses worth 5 times what they were ten years ago and they're not complaining. As parents we have to accept the fact that times are changing and those of us lucky enough to have gained in the equity in our houses are going to have to help our children.

There's no point fighting the inevitable. House prices may well drop. Certainly stagnate for years. But the internet has enabled a huge demographic shift; people can live in the places they want now - not where they have to - much more than was the case ten years ago. It was seeing how the internet was going to change our lives that convinced me to move to Cornwall when I did, before it was too late.

So don't fret about relocation websites. They may help people who are serious - but I can't imagine someone is going to read a website then decide to move down without dotting the i's and crossing the t's first. If some do and it all goes wrong, then they only have themselves to blame.

Oh - and houses in St Ives are flying off the shelves. Really. There's a mini-boom going on down here. But it's a summer thing. It'll tail off in the autumn. I hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't looked at, or posted on this site, for about a couple of years. Out of interest I logged on to see what people were going on about now, given that a crash hasn't exactly happened. Much the same thing really. We're all basically doomed. And I'm sure if I logged on again in another couple of years, I'd be reading exactly the same. Meanwhile people not plunged into fear by some of the entries on this site will have got on with their lives and bought a house. To live in and enjoy, not in expectation of a great financial gain because we know that isn't going to happen.

I disagree with Tassy. People are re-locating to Cornwall simply because it is a great place to live. No-one is stupid enough, surely, to bring their kids down without first having got them into a school. If anything, schools will improve and supply will meet demand. Village schools (at least the villages people want to live in) may well be saved by people relocating.

There are definitely people who do come to Cornwall without getting their kids into a school first! I have met several. There are also people who buy mobile homes as a foot in Cornwall and then find they are homeless part of the year due to the holiday park lease restrictions. Unfortunately the County Council won't keep village schools open on the basis that families would move in, increasing the numbers again. They are set on amalgamations and many village schools will probably close. I agree RCH is a reasonable hospital and I personally have no problem with where it is situated but if they close St Michael's and/or WCH or significantly reduce services, this will impact on everyone here, whethere newly relocated or not. I think it is essential that we who live here make the case for consideration to our growing population to be a factor when central government funds are allocated and a public march in Hayle soon is a demonstration of how worried people down here really are.

Property in St Ives is fairly quick to shift but then again I know of several which have lingered on the market for 2 years plus. I personally welcome the idea of places like Downalong becoming proper homes again, instead of holiday homes as most are now. But then you used to be able to buy a place in Downalong for under £100k and now they are fetching £200k, £300k and the like as it is so trendy.

IT and green technology are our future here, as well as tourism. But we need the infrastructure in place to accomodate the extra people these initiatives will bring. This is what the next round of EU funding is for. I just want people to be given all the facts. Relocation agents, as estate agents, will always paint a rosey picture because it sells houses to do so. If people seriously want to relocate they need the facts so they can plan effectively.

I totally agree Cornwall is a super place to live!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't looked at, or posted on this site, for about a couple of years. Out of interest I logged on to see what people were going on about now, given that a crash hasn't exactly happened. Much the same thing really. We're all basically doomed. And I'm sure if I logged on again in another couple of years, I'd be reading exactly the same. Meanwhile people not plunged into fear by some of the entries on this site will have got on with their lives and bought a house.

That's re-assuring to know. When I first joined this site as a newbie bull I was confident there would be no crash - then after a month of reading some of the regulars (I think you all know who I mean) I began to think maybe they were right - now I'm convinced more than ever that they will still be spouting the same crap in another two years - while as you say everyone else has got on with their lives

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's re-assuring to know. When I first joined this site as a newbie bull I was confident there would be no crash - then after a month of reading some of the regulars (I think you all know who I mean) I began to think maybe they were right - now I'm convinced more than ever that they will still be spouting the same crap in another two years - while as you say everyone else has got on with their lives

I must admit I don't think there will be a huge crash. I think what may indeed happen will be that it starts to take longer to sell a house and that sellers who do have large equity will possibly drop their prices according to how quickly they want to sell. It does seem to still possible to obtain asking price if one is prepared to wait. And it does tend to be the houses which are very developed that ask the unrealistic prices. Those houses that are in a good location or are special in some way often achieve more than asking price and tend to be snapped up. These properties certainly won't be likely to drop in value. Realistically priced property will also usually sell quickly. Those that will be looking at dropping abit off the price will probably be those who have either overdeveloped their houses leaving no room for future additions and, equally, property needing lots of work.

With the rise in repossessions there will be auction bargains, but sometimes lenders sell repossessed stock on to companies who rent out affordably for a few years then sell on when prices have risen again. This was often the case with repossessions in London and the South West in the 90's because I rented one of them off a company who guaranteed me 4 years tenure.

I agree with Beachbabe that parents who have good equity can and should help our kids onto the property ladder in the future. That is what I am hoping to do.

Prices probably won't see the same sharp increases as we have seen over the past 5 years but they will probably hold and creep up slowly until the over-inflated affect we are seeing comes into line and then we may even see sharp rises again in 10 years, who knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Tassy. I have also wondered why people would choose to live some where as inaccesable as Cornwall when the liklihood is that their mobility is going to deteriorate. Are there any towns without stonking great hills to negotiate, coz I don't know of any? Many older people find themselves isolated, unable to access the shops, unable to use mobility scooters because the pavements are so narrow and the roads small. They are in affect unable to access all the things that drew them down there in the first place. Me.....i'd choose to live somewhere as flat and as near to shops as possible. Fair enough if you know people there and have family, but I do think this moving away when you are retired can be an extreamly isolating experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Tassy. I have also wondered why people would choose to live some where as inaccesable as Cornwall when the liklihood is that their mobility is going to deteriorate. Are there any towns without stonking great hills to negotiate, coz I don't know of any? Many older people find themselves isolated, unable to access the shops, unable to use mobility scooters because the pavements are so narrow and the roads small. They are in affect unable to access all the things that drew them down there in the first place. Me.....i'd choose to live somewhere as flat and as near to shops as possible. Fair enough if you know people there and have family, but I do think this moving away when you are retired can be an extreamly isolating experience.

As a cornishman forced out of Cornwall to find work I don't see there would ever be a chance for me to move back. Still no decent career prospects down there (I tried it for 6 years but had to move on as was getting nowhere fast) for me and also house prices have been blown sky high by people buying second homes AND retiring in the area.

It is becoming a victim of its own success and is fast becoming a huge leisure park - why dont the just stick a promenade all the way around its coast line, stick a huge bingo hall on Brown Willy and a 5 lane motorway straight down the middle right off lands end. Please dont stop just keep on driving right of the end as far as I am concerned .

Where my parents live average house price to average wage is 12 times. Now there is no chance in hell that locals are buying at those prices... what happens when in another 10 years time house prices are 20 times average? Where will the locals be then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally agree Cornwall is a super place to live!

I could not agree more. But what sort of job are you going to get? Every day I miss the sights and the sounds of living in one of the most scenic counties in the UK. If I could get a similar job/wage/career then I would be back in a flash.

I moved away before the huge price surge of the noughties, a time when you could buy a nice terrace in Camborne for about 30K. Now you would be looking at 140K for a house that might have be suffering 'mundic block'- the feldspar in the granit block weathers away leaving you with structural failure of the block. Oh and you live on top of one of the most mined patches of ground on the planet. It's not a bad risk to punt 30k on but any more is more than stupid.

When/if prices ever correct it might be time to look at coming back!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love Cornwall - particularly St Ives where I have been on holiday 15 times! One of my dreams it so move there but I am under no illusions - I have to make my internet-based business work before I can consider such a move. I have friends in Carbis Bay who own a number of holiday homes in St Ives, or at least they did, 'cause they're selling up. They're having no trouble shifting them despite the £500K+ price tags, so while I agree that the UK as a whole is overpriced, I also feel that the desirableness of St Ives is never fails to attract money and thus is less vulnerable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love Cornwall - particularly St Ives where I have been on holiday 15 times! One of my dreams it so move there but I am under no illusions - I have to make my internet-based business work before I can consider such a move. I have friends in Carbis Bay who own a number of holiday homes in St Ives, or at least they did, 'cause they're selling up. They're having no trouble shifting them despite the £500K+ price tags, so while I agree that the UK as a whole is overpriced, I also feel that the desirableness of St Ives is never fails to attract money and thus is less vulnerable.

St Ives has gone stupid recently with some of new build flats being built - prices are sky high as you rightly say BB

I think your friends may be doing the right thing selling up

St Ives is a loveley place to go on holiday but I would not like to live there dificulty with access too many emmets and Mrs CS lived there as a girl so the place is full of her old boyfriends

CS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the Cornishman newspaper today and sure enough there was a stark increase in asking price reductions on some properties. One property in Mousehole, which has been on the market for at least 18 months, started marketing at £230k and is in the paper today with a price tag of £199k! This particular property may have a flying freehold on it as the next door property's window extends over this ones hall. Another one in Penzance which has previously been on at £250k approx is now reduced to £215k. There are at least 5 or 6 more this week with many actively promoted as reduced in price. This may not be indicative of a crash but certainly suggests that vendors and agents are realising that they won't achieve the hiked up prices we have been seeing over the past 2 years. St Ives is the only place that actually seems to be holding the high prices. There is a newly listed 4 bedroom cottage in Sancreed with satbles and 6 acres of land with a guide price of £365k. This probably would have been on at over £400k had it been listed last year. Of course if property in Cornwall does come down it may help first time buyers but it could equally attract more relocators so the effects may not be as positive for those in depsperate need as we would hope. Mind you, the prices are still too high for most first time buyers even with this type of reduction. When you think that only 6 years ago you could get a decent sized family home in West Cornwall for between £50k and £85k the prices here are still massively inflated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update from St Ives: BF is an estate agent - she says gazumping has started again in the past couple of weeks. This hasn't happened for a couple of years. People are offering £10k or more over asking price. Now even I am getting jittery. I haven't felt that a crash was likely to happen before now. Stagnation yes, but not a crash. I still don't think a crash will happen in St Ives, which appears fairly recession proof, but St Ives is largely propped up by the London market and there's bound to be a ripple effect if prices in the South-East start tumbling. I think the signs are that we really could be entering 'bubble' area now so I'm selling 2 of my flats. Could be one of the worse decisions I ever make but what's life without a little risk? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's about time people down here took a bit more of a millitant stand rather than sitting back and watching our towns and villages being taken over by retirees.

Actually it's even worse than that. There are relocation incentives for inner city council tennants:

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/housing_a...london_faqs.htm

I say get out there with a paint can. If we burnt them out we still wouldn't have anywhere to live!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to disagree. North Cornwall KVN recent farmhouse sale only one prospective purchaser.

Just trying to put a deal together for 100 sq. m barn conversions with potential panoramic views.

This is pre-purchase deal. So any one interested needs to have a deposit, mortgage offer and commitment. Conversion must be to Planning and BR requirements. One dividing wall required in each property. Already new roof and ropes for utilities in conduit. Price will depend on pre-purchase price, but in the region of £80,000. Existing Planning for c100sq. metre 2 beds, 50 metre plot. End units with large gardens.

I am sure that the start of the down cycle has started.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the signs are that we really could be entering 'bubble' area now so I'm selling 2 of my flats. Could be one of the worse decisions I ever make but what's life without a little risk? :)

Assuming you have made Capital Gains, to minimise your liability, you may wish to consider selling the flats over two financial years.

Regards

Saox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming you have made Capital Gains, to minimise your liability, you may wish to consider selling the flats over two financial years.

Regards

Saox

Thanks Bootsox - that was at the back of my mind originally. However amazingly CGT is fairly minimal on holiday lets. Any amount I would save would probably be more than wiped out by waiting a few months to sell the second one. That is of course assuming prices fall! Even if they don't it only works out at about a couple of thousand. Not enough to persuade me to put my life on hold. I'm bored with them now and want to get on with my next project!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However amazingly CGT is fairly minimal on holiday lets

I am not aware that holiday lets, as an asset class, attract special CGT considerations. Please can you elaborate?

Regards

Sox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not aware that holiday lets, as an asset class, attract special CGT considerations. Please can you elaborate?

Regards

Sox

I let mine out all year round so they're classed as a business asset and therefore subject to business asset taper relief. I've owned them for more than 2 years so my chargeable gain will only be 25% of the net profits. By the time my accountant's done his bit it shouldn't be too much. (I have a great accountant!) In any case I'm not complaining. Happy to pay what I have to: I've had a return on investment of almost 500% in the six years I've owned them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I let mine out all year round so they're classed as a business asset and therefore subject to business asset taper relief. I've owned them for more than 2 years so my chargeable gain will only be 25% of the net profits. By the time my accountant's done his bit it shouldn't be too much. (I have a great accountant!) In any case I'm not complaining. Happy to pay what I have to: I've had a return on investment of almost 500% in the six years I've owned them.

Thanks for that very informative response.

Regards

Sox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.