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Middle East On Knife Edge - Oil And Stocks May React

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/02082006/325/blai...frontation.html

Blair says Syria and Iran risk confrontation

Reuters Wednesday August 2, 01:42 PM

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) -
Prime Minister Tony Blair warned Syria and Iran on Tuesday that they risked a confrontation if they continued to support terrorism and export instability to Iraq and elsewhere.
In a speech urging a rethink of the West's strategy to defeat extremism in the Middle East, Blair accused Iran and Syria of helping extreme factions in Iraq and backing militant groups in Lebanon and Palestine...../
Blair, who has been heavily criticized at home for siding with the United States over the war between Israel and Hizbollah guerrillas in Lebanon, was asked after his speech whether NATO should take the lead in providing a multinational force in Lebanon.

As tensions mount the oil companies will seize the opportunity to hike oil prices. Not so sure this will bode well for stocks as the current rally seems to be limiting its focus on current earnings.

Edited by Realistbear

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i watched the hole speach last night - very different to what is being reported today.

quotes like:

"We need to make it clear to Syria and Iran that there is a choice: Come into the international community and play by the same rules as the rest of us, or be confronted.

"Their support of terrorism, their deliberate export of instability, their desire to see wrecked the democratic prospect in Iraq is utterly unjustifiable, dangerous and wrong. If they keep raising the stakes, they will find they have miscalculated,"

seem to have gone unoticed. :ph34r:

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It seems they've been gunning for Iran to get involved.

Oil will be shooting up soon and let's hope for $100+ a barrel. Not that I want the oil companies to get richer..... but

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As in 1938/9, the liberal softees have no compehension of how badly people (govts) can behave. They report what they want to hear/believe. Thee is no like for like with the middle east. I simply do not see how agreeing to heel to Iran/Syria/Hizbolah will lead to long term safety/security. I would rather 100 deaths today than 10,000 in a few years.

Edited by Tempest

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As in 1938/9, the liberal softees have no compehension of how badly people (govts) can behave. They report what they want to hear/believe. Thee is no like for like with the middle east. I simply do not see how agreeing to heel to Iran/Syria/Hizbolah will lead to long term safety/security. I would rather 100 deaths today than 10,000 in a few years.

As long as it's not you or your family who die i take it.Let someone else do the dying.Is that right?

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Iran is planning to open its Oil Exchange in September ...... this is just the appetizer .....

Yes and thats why the american puppet, israil is trying to drag Iran and Syria in to the war.

lets not forget who is invading who here and then ask who the terrorists are.

America may get more than it thinks if Russia backs Iran and then lets see who wants to kiss and make up.

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Yes and thats why the american puppet, israil is trying to drag Iran and Syria in to the war.

lets not forget who is invading who here and then ask who the terrorists are.

America may get more than it thinks if Russia backs Iran and then lets see who wants to kiss and make up.

Hezbollah kicked off the conflict by invading Israel to kidnap two soldiers. They then proceded to invade Israeli airspace with rockets. This is just a continuation of Hezbollah policy to keep invasion of Israel at the forefront by sending homicide bombers into Israeli towns to kill as many civilians as possible with the widest collateral damage. This is part of the overall plan to invade Israel and re-settle the land with Hezbollah and radical Muslim settlers.

Under International Law a nation that is invaded or threatened with invasion has a right to retaliate. For Israel the invasion to kidnap troops was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

BTW, the Iraq conflict began with an invasion. Saddam decided to take Kuwait and move into Saudi--he got as far a Kuwait.

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Hezbollah kicked off the conflict by invading Israel to kidnap two soldiers. They then proceded to invade Israeli airspace with rockets. This is just a continuation of Hezbollah policy to keep invasion of Israel at the forefront by sending homicide bombers into Israeli towns to kill as many civilians as possible with the widest collateral damage. This is part of the overall plan to invade Israel and re-settle the land with Hezbollah and radical Muslim settlers.

Under International Law a nation that is invaded or threatened with invasion has a right to retaliate. For Israel the invasion to kidnap troops was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

BTW, the Iraq conflict began with an invasion. Saddam decided to take Kuwait and move into Saudi--he got as far a Kuwait.

More staggering dementia on display above.

Christian fundamentalists (see above) and zionists deliberately started this cancerous war.

Israel started it by being created illegally and by murdering thousands of palestinian people systematically.

That is why they are a little bit angry at Israelis, and always will be.

Trying to blame anyone else is ignorance beyond belief.

So happy to tow the Blair line of "hezbollah started it" when it suits you eh RB?

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More staggering dementia on display above.

Christian fundamentalists (see above) and zionists deliberately started this cancerous war.

Israel started it by being created illegally and by murdering thousands of palestinian people systematically.

That is why they are a little bit angry at Israelis, and always will be.

Trying to blame anyone else is ignorance beyond belief.

So happy to tow the Blair line of "hezbollah started it" when it suits you eh RB?

You choose who to support. In a democracy you are perfectly free to be a Hezbollah/Al Qaeda/Hamas or whatever supporter and to get behind their vision for the Middle East. Not everyone agrees and that is what debate is all about.

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Yes and thats why the american puppet, israil is trying to drag Iran and Syria in to the war.

lets not forget who is invading who here and then ask who the terrorists are.

America may get more than it thinks if Russia backs Iran and then lets see who wants to kiss and make up.

why would russia back iran? russia is the second largest oil producer after saudi arabia, iran the fourth largest.

russia would clearly benefit from a high oil price, and then when russia and america defeat iran, they could split the country between them like they did with Germany and Korea, after WW2 and then russia would be easily the largest oil producer in the world.

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You choose who to support. In a democracy you are perfectly free to be a Hezbollah/Al Qaeda/Hamas or whatever supporter and to get behind their vision for the Middle East. Not everyone agrees and that is what debate is all about.

Thats true for some people. Like people who have chosen to look forward to armageddon because of their beliefs. Fair enough if thats what you crave, objectivity would clearly not interest you as you have your belief.

Its just important to point out that anyone who hasn't got your beliefs, and is impartial, as most people thankfully are nowadays, see Israel for the terrorist state it is. Thats what all the stop the war coalition and hundreds of other organisations are mostly made up of. Ordinary British people who haven't lost their British sense of fair play and all the wonderfull British attributes that have made us famous throughout the world. We still stand for that fairness.

Your belief blinkers are sadly what are preventing you from seeing the truth as it is. Not as you are told to believe is true.

And BTW, trying to label people as HAMAS supporters and Anti-semites for speaking against the ongoing atrocity and genocide is just desperate.

Sad and desperate.

Please wake up. I genuinely implore you to see sense.

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Thats true for some people. Like people who have chosen to look forward to armageddon because of their beliefs. Fair enough if thats what you crave, objectivity would clearly not interest you as you have your belief.

Its just important to point out that anyone who hasn't got your beliefs, and is impartial, as most people thankfully are nowadays, see Israel for the terrorist state it is. Thats what all the stop the war coalition and hundreds of other organisations are mostly made up of. Ordinary British people who haven't lost their British sense of fair play and all the wonderfull British attributes that have made us famous throughout the world. We still stand for that fairness.

Your belief blinkers are sadly what are preventing you from seeing the truth as it is. Not as you are told to believe is true.

And BTW, trying to label people as HAMAS supporters and Anti-semites for speaking against the ongoing atrocity and genocide is just desperate.

Sad and desperate.

Please wake up. I genuinely implore you to see sense.

Again, its all a matter of opinion freely arrived at. Some people in this country supported Hitler during WW2 and thought Stalin was a fine gentleman. Some see Hezbollah as having a just cause to destroy Israel and to do so with human homicide bombers. Others see Israel as having a legitimate right to exist despite the protests of Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran and Al Qaeda. It is my understanding that both Egypt and Jordan accept Israel's right to exist so it is not a question of all Muslims are against Israel.

War always involves death. Hezbollah consider they are at war with Israel which is why they have justified years and years of human homicide bombings on the civilian population. Israel considers these attacks as acts of war and feel it is necessary to remove Hezbollah and to create a buffer zone to prevent further missiles being fired into their territory. Some think this kind of self-defense is not justified and that it would be beter just to arrest the suicide bombers before they set their explosives off.

"Truth" is never objective because each side comes to it from a different perpective. I am certain Hitler thought he was right to cleanse Europe of all Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Slavs and those with birth defects. Thousands agreed with him. Your view may be that Hezbollah are fighting for justice and that their cause to remove Israel is well founded. Or you might be against all killing whether it is homicide bombings or bombs from jets--they all kill in the end.

So long as you are clear about which side you support and why then it is perfectly valid to support "your team." It is not for me to call your choices demented or wrong because you have a right to express them. Some may not agree but that's what freedom of speech is all about.

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Why are you talking about freedom of speech?

Again, I'll explain it one more time...

impartial people can come to no other conclusion other than Israel has, since its terrible creation, been committing atrocities and will continue to do so as long as it exists in its current state.

I'm trying to solve a problem by first recognising that Israel is the source of all discontent and evil deeds in this world.

I'm not going to CHOOSE what side I'm going to be with.

A little research makes it OBVIOUS and leaves me with NO choice.

Is that hard to understand?

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Why are you talking about freedom of speech?

Again, I'll explain it one more time...

impartial people can come to no other conclusion other than Israel has, since its terrible creation, been committing atrocities and will continue to do so as long as it exists in its current state.

I'm trying to solve a problem by first recognising that Israel is the source of all discontent and evil deeds in this world.

I'm not going to CHOOSE what side I'm going to be with.

A little research makes it OBVIOUS and leaves me with NO choice.

Is that hard to understand?

Impartial? Everyone has an opinion which makes them partial to one side or the other. "Atrocities" might also mean homicide bombings in crowded Israeli markets where all kinds of civilians are killed. Ever since Israel reformed as a state certain extremist groups have been committing atrocities against them. There are certain Arabs who will not accept Israel's right to exist which is why they have been hijacking planes (mostly from Arafat), killing people in wheelchairs, blowing up children on school buses etc. When Israel retaliates in an attempt to stop these atrocities some consider such acts to be atrocities.

Its all opinion and whose side you tend to support. My guess is that if every adult in the UK were polled the majority would support Israel's right to exist.

For you the choice is, as you say, obvious. For others it is obvious that Israel has a right to wage war (which includes death and destruction) in order to defend its borders and to try to terminate homicide bombers.

Perhaps another few Tube bombs in London might sway you the other way who knows? Your choice.

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impartial people can come to no other conclusion other than Israel has, since its terrible creation, been committing atrocities and will continue to do so as long as it exists in its current state.

I'm trying to solve a problem by first recognising that Israel is the source of all discontent and evil deeds in this world.

You are expressing your opinion. Thus, the above, should be:

impartial people can reach their own conslusion and the conslusion I personally have come to is that Israel has, since its in my opinion terrible creation, been committing atrocities and I believe will continue to do so as long as it exists in its current state.

I'm trying to suggest that Israel is the source of all discontent and evil deeds in this world.

What does not seem to be being disputed by anybody is that this latest round kicked off in response to Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers and their subsequent shelling of Israel, and that if the captured soldiers were returned a ceasefire could probably be achieved quite quickly.

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Prime Minister Tony Blair warned Syria and Iran on Tuesday that they risked a confrontation if they continued to support terrorism and export instability to Iraq and elsewhere

funny that because, when i was a lad. having a war was a defence against being attacked. it wasnt something a lone PM decided on.

did we vote on this policy ??

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There is much talk of "taking sides" by RealistBear, as if this were absolutely necessary.

Pesonally, I am on the side of humanity, but we aren't all. For instance, I wonder whether RealistBear would declare whether or not he holds with the beliefs held by so called dispensational premillennialists, and whether he looks forward to so called end times?

[edit apologies for spelling]

Edited by Sledgehead

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Your said:

I'm trying to solve a problem by first recognising that Israel is the source of all discontent and evil deeds in this world.

The above is an opinion and one that you have a right to express in the UK. However, it is not a novel opinion as others have held it also:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/Browning1.htm

The Nazi regime implemented the Final Solution or mass murder of the European Jews caught within its empire primarily by two methods--shooting and gassing. In the territories occupied by Germany after June 22, 1941 (with the exception of the district of Bialystok and partial exception of the district of Galicia), shooting was the most common method employed to kill Jews. The Jews of central and western Poland i.e. the Polish territory held by Germany since September 1939, and those deported from all over Europe to Poland during the war for the most part perished in the gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, and the gas vans of Chelmno.

IF, as you say, Isreal is the source of all evil you would have much in common with a regime from germany that held very similar views. That's okay as you have a right to think this way and it does add to the discussion.

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Your said:

I'm trying to solve a problem by first recognising that Israel is the source of all discontent and evil deeds in this world.

The above is an opinion and one that you have a right to express in the UK. However, it is not a novel opinion as others have held it also:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/Browning1.htm

The Nazi regime implemented the Final Solution or mass murder of the European Jews caught within its empire primarily by two methods--shooting and gassing. In the territories occupied by Germany after June 22, 1941 (with the exception of the district of Bialystok and partial exception of the district of Galicia), shooting was the most common method employed to kill Jews. The Jews of central and western Poland i.e. the Polish territory held by Germany since September 1939, and those deported from all over Europe to Poland during the war for the most part perished in the gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, and the gas vans of Chelmno.

IF, as you say, Isreal is the source of all evil you would have much in common with a regime from germany that held very similar views. That's okay as you have a right to think this way and it does add to the discussion.

Ha Haa.

A pointless quote as if to support his assertion that all who think the way I do are nazis!

"Anti Semite!!! Nazi!! terrorist!!" all the desperate accusations come flying out when trying to discuss Israils atrocities.

I think you're very wrong about the majority supporting the terrorist state of Israel BTW. Most people have discovered a lot of uncomfortable things about Zionism through the change in the way information can now be called upon by the net. They especially despise the end times madness that you espouse.

It will not enter your head will it? the thought that maybe, just maybe, setting up Israel was the biggest mistake of mankind.

It does make me laugh how you reply with quotes and screams of anti-semite.

awaiting more of the same.

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You are expressing your opinion. Thus, the above, should be:

What does not seem to be being disputed by anybody is that this latest round kicked off in response to Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers and their subsequent shelling of Israel, and that if the captured soldiers were returned a ceasefire could probably be achieved quite quickly.

I think that you'll find that quite a lot of people dispute this, since it is a rather arbitrary picking of year zero in a simmering conflict. For example:

http://manyangrygerbils.typepad.com/many_a...l_beyond_y.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0801/p09s02-coop.html

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2928

It's fairly clear that the Israeli assault has been planned for some time (I believe that the San Francisco chronicle has an account of Israeli defence people touring the US with plans last year), and the capture of Corporal Shalit and the two Israeli soldiers on the Lebanese border are just excuses for this action. It would be interesting to know what the US hopes to get out of this,

Peter.

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Your said:

I'm trying to solve a problem by first recognising that Israel is the source of all discontent and evil deeds in this world.

The above is an opinion and one that you have a right to express in the UK. However, it is not a novel opinion as others have held it also:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/Browning1.htm

The Nazi regime implemented the Final Solution or mass murder of the European Jews caught within its empire primarily by two methods--shooting and gassing. In the territories occupied by Germany after June 22, 1941 (with the exception of the district of Bialystok and partial exception of the district of Galicia), shooting was the most common method employed to kill Jews. The Jews of central and western Poland i.e. the Polish territory held by Germany since September 1939, and those deported from all over Europe to Poland during the war for the most part perished in the gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, and the gas vans of Chelmno.

IF, as you say, Isreal is the source of all evil you would have much in common with a regime from germany that held very similar views. That's okay as you have a right to think this way and it does add to the discussion.

How could the Nazis have an opinion on Israel? A time machine?

(To declare my thoughts for the sake of this discussion, I think that the Israel military, Hizbullah and Hamas all need each other to justify their existence. Meanwhile, civilians all over the world keep dying.)

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There is much talk of "taking sides" by RealistBear, as if this were absolutely neccessary.

Pesonally, I am on the side of humanity, but we aren't all. For instance, I wonder whether RealistBear would declare whther or not he holds with the beliefs held by so called dispensational premillennialists, and whther he looks forward to so called end times?

I am Amillenial and do not subscribe to dispensational pre-millennialism. These latter views are a product of Charles Derby of the Plymouth Brethren who popularized them in the US in the late 19th Century through the Scofield Reference Bible. The "end times" began in the 1st Century when the Kingdom of God was ushered in at a spiritual level by Jesus. The end of human history as we know it will come about at a time and date not known to us. There will be certain indicators of that time drawing near such as the State of Israel surrounded by enemies and the spread of false teaching in the Church. There is nothing human power can do to speed the process along.

The certainty of war has always been with us. The 20th Century was the worst in human history next to the 19th Century which ranked second. This century may prove to be even worse than the last 2 now that the nukes are being spread to more nations. The end of times will also be characterised by increasing geo-physical disturbances including earthquakes, famines, floods, plagues etc. 80% of all recorded earthquakes have occured in the last 25 years (the Chinese have records going back to 2500BC).

Humanity is a good side to be on if you can work out which group to support. The track record so far has not been too encouraging with each century seeming to involve more death and destruction that the last.

But then its just my opinion and I am sure you have an opinion also. So there we are, SH is part of the "Humanity" grouping and I am an amillenial member of the Church of England.

I think that you'll find that quite a lot of people dispute this, since it is a rather arbitrary picking of year zero in a simmering conflict. For example:

http://manyangrygerbils.typepad.com/many_a...l_beyond_y.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0801/p09s02-coop.html

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2928

It's fairly clear that the Israeli assault has been planned for some time (I believe that the San Francisco chronicle has an account of Israeli defence people touring the US with plans last year), and the capture of Corporal Shalit and the two Israeli soldiers on the Lebanese border are just excuses for this action. It would be interesting to know what the US hopes to get out of this,

Peter.

I would imagine their plans began around 1949 when the attacks began. First from Arafat and his hijackings and most recently from Hezbollah. Homicide bombings have grown in their popularity and appeal as they fit the ideals of the perp going to heaven to enjoy endless virgins (not sure about female perps). Israel has had to plan to survive for years, if not centuries. I am certain if the UK had a steady stream of suicide bombers coming in from certain areas we would seek to put a stop to them after the first few years of atrocities. After all, pre-emptive strikes are not unknown in our world as the US found out when Pearl Harbour was bombed or when King Philip discovered his fleet had been sunk by Elizabeth I's navy in antipation of an invasion. War is war and survival is the name of the game.

By supporting Israel against the oil rich Arab nations I doubt the US has much to gain in the material sense at all. I am not sure Stan Baldwin thought he had much to gain when he more or less sposnored the founding members of the reformed Israeli state in the 1930's as he must have known then that there was not much wealth in that part of the world. After WW2 there were millions of homeless Jews including thousands from Hitler's camps who needed a place to live. THe UN sponsored move back to their homeland might have had something to do wth humanitarian aid rather than exploitation of some oil reserves.

How could the Nazis have an opinion on Israel? A time machine?

(To declare my thoughts for the sake of this discussion, I think that the Israel military, Hizbullah and Hamas all need each other to justify their existence. Meanwhile, civilians all over the world keep dying.)

"Israel" are a people. The Nazis identified all Jews as being part of the world's problems and that the world would be a more peaceful and propserous place without them. Some today agree and these might include certain Arab nations and their western sympathisers. Some even say the BNP have anti-semitic leanings but I am not certain about that.

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I am Amillenial and do not subscribe to dispensational pre-millennialism. These latter views are a product of Charles Derby of the Plymouth Brethren who popularized them in the US in the late 19th Century through the Scofield Reference Bible. The "end times" began in the 1st Century when the Kingdom of God was ushered in at a spiritual level by Jesus. The end of human history as we know it will come about at a time and date not known to us. There will be certain indicators of that time drawing near such as the State of Israel surrounded by enemies and the spread of false teaching in the Church. There is nothing human power can do to speed the process along.

Well, in that case I take back the inference of you maybe being anti-humanity.

So you are CJCLDS?

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Well, in that case I take back the inference of you maybe being anti-humanity.

So you are CJCLDS?

Not anti-humanity. Amillenial is simply a belief that the Kingdom age is now and that there is no "millenium" or 1000 year reign after the end of this "dispensation."

I am a member of the Church of England. I am only guessing, but I would have thought you would not be a member of the C of E?

The Mormons (LDS) are a religious group that was founded by Joseph Smith to whom the truths were revealed on Gold Tablets in the 19th Century. They believe that Jesus was the created brother of Satan and that "God" was once a man who became god. IMO, its a somewhat bizarre religion but each to his own way.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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