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Realistbear

Miracle Economy May Produce Record Public Debt

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...01/cndebt01.xml

National debt may soar above £1,000bn
By Edmund Conway, Economics Editor
(Filed: 01/08/2006)
The national debt could swell to well over £1,000bn if the Government goes ahead with a plan to incorporate the huge public sector pensions liability in its accounts.
The proposal, which is presently under consideration, would obliterate one of Gordon Brown's key borrowing rules - that public sector debt cannot exceed 40pc of gross domestic product -
as it would push the debt to almost 100pc of GDP
.

Can Gordon sustain the miracle much longer with these kinds of figures? It must mean that taxes will have to rise substantially and Gordon will have to look to new sources for revenue. BTLs may be one of the principle targets. With new regs coming in and Local Authority discretion (permission) to tax smaller properties, it will not just be large HMOs who will feel the tax burden when it drops.

Bottom line, we have 1.2Trillion of private debt and it looks like we will soon have close to that in public debt. The Miracle Economy seems to be showing itself for what it really is: a massive debt bubble that appears to be growing faster as each minute ticks by.

POP!

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Yawn.

Why not fight the bastards?

If one angry young person had a microphone stuck under his nose at a demonstration and said 'We're pissed off at being priced out of owning a property by all these middle class Buy To Let scum landlords. There's a limited supply of properties in this country and these bastards use the equity in their homes to keep buying up more and more of the property stock. Do you lot think it's okay for young people to be priced out? Do you think we're happy to rent forever? Well we're here to tell you we're not. And something is going to f*cking well get done about it.'

It that was broadcast on the 10 o'clock news it would send shock waves through the property market.

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Much of the 700 billion pound public sector pension deficit has occurred since 1997.Brown has therefore failed miserably in meeting his golden rule were pension defecits to be included.He has forced Companies to include such defecits on their Balance Sheets,the man is just a f***ing cheat.

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Guest mattsta1964

Much of the 700 billion pound public sector pension deficit has occurred since 1997.Brown has therefore failed miserably in meeting his golden rule were pension defecits to be included.He has forced Companies to include such defecits on their Balance Sheets,the man is just a f***ing cheat.

It's really hard to believe this government can be so reckless. The consequences of what is happening will be calamitous and have ramifications well beyond the housing market.

I find it increasingly hard to believe that this madness can be contrived through stupidity of recklessness. There must be method in the madness but what means on earth can be served by crashing the UK into these levels of debt? I'm confused. It doesn't make sense.

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Yawn.

Why not fight the bastards?

If one angry young person had a microphone stuck under his nose at a demonstration and said 'We're pissed off at being priced out of owning a property by all these middle class Buy To Let scum landlords. There's a limited supply of properties in this country and these bastards use the equity in their homes to keep buying up more and more of the property stock. Do you lot think it's okay for young people to be priced out? Do you think we're happy to rent forever? Well we're here to tell you we're not. And something is going to f*cking well get done about it.'

It that was broadcast on the 10 o'clock news it would send shock waves through the property market.

May I ask why?

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May I ask why?

You don't have to take that from Lionel - go on, hit 'im... :lol:

Nah, he's right - it just states the obvious and would be regarded as a rant....

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Urm, this is news to me. Why isn’t the public sector pension deficit already counted as public debt!? Where else could this liability sit?

"We are basically dipping our hands into their pockets with these pensions liabilities. But this is only the tip of the inter-generational iceberg."

"Also, what about our claims on natural resources, such as the North Sea, which we are effectively depleting at a rapid rate? Then there's the environment, which we are systematically degrading - the most obvious cause being cheap flights."

Wow, notice the nod to North Sea depletion. North Sea oil and gas depletion over the next 10 years could end up doubling our trade deficit assuming reduced production is met with increased imports rather than just doing without.

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The national debt could swell to well over £1,000bn if the Government goes ahead with a plan to incorporate the huge public sector pensions liability in its accounts.

The proposal, which is presently under consideration, would obliterate one of Gordon Brown's key borrowing rules - that public sector debt cannot exceed 40pc of gross domestic product - as it would push the debt to almost 100pc of GDP.[/indent]

Can Gordon sustain the miracle much longer with these kinds of figures? It must mean that taxes will have to rise substantially and Gordon will have to look to new sources for revenue. BTLs may be one of the principle targets. With new regs coming in and Local Authority discretion (permission) to tax smaller properties, it will not just be large HMOs who will feel the tax burden when it drops.

Bottom line, we have 1.2Trillion of private debt and it looks like we will soon have close to that in public debt. The Miracle Economy seems to be showing itself for what it really is: a massive debt bubble that appears to be growing faster as each minute ticks by.

POP!

Nicely put!

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Why isn’t the public sector pension deficit already counted as public debt!?

Because it would look bad. Governments don't like that, they might lose an election if they look bad.

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BTLs may be one of the principle targets. With new regs coming in and Local Authority discretion (permission) to tax smaller properties, it will not just be large HMOs who will feel the tax burden when it drops.

Surely that's the last thing he would consider. It would totally undermine the current driver of the housing market and trigger a big correction.

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It would also focus attention on the state's pensions deficit, which is unfunded and is therefore paid out of future taxes

This is the bit most of the population don't understand.

Public sector pay is generaly lower than their private sector counterparts. It is made up for in other benefits, namely a gold plated pension scheme....I say "generaly" as some are now very comparable to private sector. The gold plated bit being final salary and payable at a much earlier age.

So Prudence has been busy creating huge numbers of public sector jobs which make the employment figures look good, yet these have largely been paid for on tick. Add this to the other tick such as the PFI initatives and the huge windfalls he has enjoyed via 3G licenses, Gold sell-off, Utility/Oil windfall tax and suddenly the economic miracle looks less like a miracle and more like sleight of hand. No UK business would be able to get away with providing company accounts like the state provides.

It's just like personal debt in a way....either some poor bugger in the future has to pay it off or it gets written off through bankruptcy. But as Labour governements rarely get past 2 terms in office they aren't generaly bothered about the future....just so long as they look good today to the un-educated 'The Sun' reading voting masses.

P.S. You'll find MP's pensions to be platinum plated along with their un-recipted expense/allowance claims and perks it more than makes up for their meagre "below-private sector" £50K(ish) basic salaries.

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Public sector pay is generaly lower than their private sector counterparts.

Often claimed, but numerous stats have been posted here before showing it's the opposite today. Public sector 'workers', for example, don't have to compete with Poles willing to do their job for below minimum wage.

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This is the bit most of the population don't understand.

Public sector pay is generaly lower than their private sector counterparts. It is made up for in other benefits, namely a gold plated pension scheme....I say "generaly" as some are now very comparable to private sector. The gold plated bit being final salary and payable at a much earlier age.

So Prudence has been busy creating huge numbers of public sector jobs which make the employment figures look good, yet these have largely been paid for on tick. Add this to the other tick such as the PFI initatives and the huge windfalls he has enjoyed via 3G licenses, Gold sell-off, Utility/Oil windfall tax and suddenly the economic miracle looks less like a miracle and more like sleight of hand. No UK business would be able to get away with providing company accounts like the state provides.

It's just like personal debt in a way....either some poor bugger in the future has to pay it off or it gets written off through bankruptcy. But as Labour governements rarely get past 2 terms in office they aren't generaly bothered about the future....just so long as they look good today to the un-educated 'The Sun' reading voting masses.

P.S. You'll find MP's pensions to be platinum plated along with their un-recipted expense/allowance claims and perks it more than makes up for their meagre "below-private sector" £50K(ish) basic salaries.

Essentially they are being part paid in IOUs. Anything that encourages everybody to contribute a sensible amount of their salary regardless of pay has to be a good thing.

Looking at the adverts around, public sector pay is landscape of constrast - you have a lot of people working for utterly dismal wages at the coal face. Up into the middle ranks and you find huge pay bands, where people can work their way up maybe by £10,000 over a number of years, but still essentially in the same job. The top of the 'scale' is usually *far* in excess of the equivalent private sector pay. Add in gold plated pensions for nominal contributions and small wonder nobody ever leaves!

The private sector could learn a trick or two because these wage scales seem to be a great way of stopping your good staff using the door.

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The private sector could learn a trick or two because these wage scales seem to be a great way of stopping your good staff using the door.

or your poor performers!

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Yawn.

Why not fight the bastards?

If one angry young person had a microphone stuck under his nose at a demonstration and said 'We're pissed off at being priced out of owning a property by all these middle class Buy To Let scum landlords. There's a limited supply of properties in this country and these bastards use the equity in their homes to keep buying up more and more of the property stock. Do you lot think it's okay for young people to be priced out? Do you think we're happy to rent forever? Well we're here to tell you we're not. And something is going to f*cking well get done about it.'

It that was broadcast on the 10 o'clock news it would send shock waves through the property market.

Rubbish.. you are just playing into the hands of those that even pretend it is sutainable.

It was speculation, milked by the government to increase public spending.

There is only a shortage of property whilst people are speculating..

When it comes to homes we have plenty..

Wait, things will go pop..

Things are as unafordable now (intererst payments for the average property on the average salary) as they were in 1991 when it was near the peak of the last boom and IR's were at 11%

IR's are on the way up.. what do you think will happen then..?

No one will be able to afford to buy, to either BTL or live in..

There are no margins left at all...

Simple economics.. simple speculation

and **** and bull smoke screens to explain why that should not convince a child

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Yawn.

Why not fight the bastards?

If one angry young person had a microphone stuck under his nose at a demonstration and said 'We're pissed off at being priced out of owning a property by all these middle class Buy To Let scum landlords. There's a limited supply of properties in this country and these bastards use the equity in their homes to keep buying up more and more of the property stock. Do you lot think it's okay for young people to be priced out? Do you think we're happy to rent forever? Well we're here to tell you we're not. And something is going to f*cking well get done about it.'

It that was broadcast on the 10 o'clock news it would send shock waves through the property market.

Spam new labour website ???

You could hack their website plaster this over new labour is working ?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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