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GASMAN

Morroco Advice Wanted - Tanjah

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Im currently thinking of purchasing an aparment in the tanjah development from Dreamworld. I went to one of their presentations and I have to say I was very impressed with the figures and how the payment plan works. 25% deposits which can be spread over the 3 years and then a 75% mortgage. This is for investment for myself... Will keep for the 3 years of construction and maybe longer, will decide depending on the Morroco property market over the next 24 months....

Any advice on anyone else whos bought in Morroco, or even bought in the tanjah development.

www.dreamworld.com

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Hi gasman,

Am in the same position as you I think. Looked at the exchange bond, (which I understand will operate from within the UK & that made me feel more secure). Really like the idea of being so close to Southern Spain - good transport links, it's 5 star , there's no phasing on the build and there are other developments going up around it within a similar time frame - so no noisy cranes etc once built. BUT the development itself will not be stuck out in the wilderness in splendid isolation.

Like you I am looking to hold & with confirmation just received that a mortgage plan will be in place, this allows me the option of holding longer rather than flipping before completion (I hope!).

The payment plan I though innovative & because of the relatively long build time, capital growth is likely to be strong & that's what got me!! I have seen some comments on other website that have been negative about not being able to flip until you've paid 25% which could put the more aggressive investor off, but as I haven't got the time to devote to such revolving door tactics, this suits me fine.

I hasten to add that I am no big important property investor - we have had a place in Turkey for the last 5 years & that has done very well for us & i think that gave us more confidence to take the plunge on Tanjah. Apart from that, you just have to do your research & then go with your instinct in the end - scary eh??

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If you have't done so already it might be worth consulting your solicitor about this bond. As I understand it the property isn't yours till you pay the deposit, equal to the bond. So if bond is sitting in UK then the developers don't have it. If the developers don't have it they can sell the property you think you have. So a less than scrupulous developer that knows house prices have increased between price being agreed and completion may decide to sell property - which they could be legally entitled to do. They wouldn't be able to touch your bond, but that would be scant consolation. This might seem unlikely, but if it were my money I'd want to check solicitor's interpretation of where I'd stand.

I'm a Risk Analyst and there are two or three things I'd need re-assurance round before considering the development. I won't bore you again with the negatives I gave on the other Morocco thread.

The place I'm investing isn't without its own risks, but after researching those risks and mitigating for them as much as possible (extra clauses to contract) I've become comfortable with them. Good luck with your own research.

Edited by The Soup Dragon

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If you have't done so already it might be worth consulting your solicitor about this bond. As I understand it the property isn't yours till you pay the deposit, equal to the bond. So if bond is sitting in UK then the developers don't have it. If the developers don't have it they can sell the property you think you have. So a less than scrupulous developer that knows house prices have increased between price being agreed and completion may decide to sell property - which they could be legally entitled to do. They wouldn't be able to touch your bond, but that would be scant consolation. This might seem unlikely, but if it were my money I'd want to check solicitor's interpretation of where I'd stand.

I'm a Risk Analyst and there are two or three things I'd need re-assurance round before considering the development. I won't bore you again with the negatives I gave on the other Morocco thread.

The place I'm investing isn't without its own risks, but after researching those risks and mitigating for them as much as possible (extra clauses to contract) I've become comfortable with them. Good luck with your own research.

Thanks Soup Dragon - yes I saw your comments re this on the other thread & when we get down to contracts we will certainly be going over this with a solicitor & will take your comments on board. We won't get to that stage until we go out to see the site. So yes, there is a risk in the next couple of months & thank you for pointing that out.

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Hi,

Really interested in everything that has been said about Tanjah development. At the moment I have put 2 two bed 2 bath apartments verbally on hold front line overlooking the sea. Just wondered what stage others are at. I have been told the following:

SAGA is the big chain involved and they are paying 10% guaranteed rental for 5 years, this will be written into contract.

You can sell on to a third party if you have taken a bond, so long as you pay up on the 25% deposit.

Bank guarantees and permissions are in place and are just awaiting signiture by the king.

CGT is not charged if you flip prior to completion in 3 years.

I am awaiting confirmation that a mortgage will be agreed (should I decide to keep both) based on the rental income and not on personal income as I have read this may be the case in Morrocco if they do it like in France.

If anyone who is experience in buying off plan can see anything worrying about any of what I have been told please let me know!! I do already have property abroad but bought re-sale. Off plan is far more stressfull!!!

Thanks

:D

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Hi,

Really interested in everything that has been said about Tanjah development. At the moment I have put 2 two bed 2 bath apartments verbally on hold front line overlooking the sea. Just wondered what stage others are at. I have been told the following:

SAGA is the big chain involved and they are paying 10% guaranteed rental for 5 years, this will be written into contract.

You can sell on to a third party if you have taken a bond, so long as you pay up on the 25% deposit.

Bank guarantees and permissions are in place and are just awaiting signiture by the king.

CGT is not charged if you flip prior to completion in 3 years.

I am awaiting confirmation that a mortgage will be agreed (should I decide to keep both) based on the rental income and not on personal income as I have read this may be the case in Morrocco if they do it like in France.

If anyone who is experience in buying off plan can see anything worrying about any of what I have been told please let me know!! I do already have property abroad but bought re-sale. Off plan is far more stressfull!!!

Thanks

:D

Im actually in the process of setting up an online foreign mortgage business (have been for months), its taking a lot of time but hope to be ready in a few months. French Banks on the whole do not include rental income from proposed purchases so I think any loan must be based upon your earned and other investment income.

TAX - I also have a query; Although no CGT payable upon flipping within Morocco, does anyone know if one pays it once the funds are remitted to the UK? Morocco has a Double Taxation Treaty with the UK and it is implied this means no CGT would be due in the UK - Im not convinced.

As for the 10% rental gte, alarm bells. This is just not feasible unless they are giving people back money from the purchase price. 10% does not exist anywhere on this planet.

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No CGT in Morocco means full CGT is due in UK. No CGT is a red herring. If you want to repatriate the funds Gordon Brown will be very happy to accomodate you.

As DogBox says, Moroccan mortgage likely to be based on your income, not rental. This is because they base it on French system and as far as I am aware the main banks in France do not take into account rental. Not even for leasebacks where the largest, most financially secure, leasing companies are providing you with the guaranteed rental. Additonally, the literature I've read where mortgages are mentioned says you need to show prooof of income as well as mortgage being subject to status.

As for guarantees, percentages don't mean much. Even if a financially secure reputable company quotes a figure (like Fadesa did for Magnum in Saidia) you need to ask what costs are absorbed by company renting property and waht costs you will absorb. I imagine that you will need to absorb insurance costs as an absolute minimum and there will likely be accounting and other costs for you to absorb.

I wasn't aware permissions were in place for Tanjah or that they required the King's signature. I'm sorry, but I'm very sceptical about that. You need three sets of permissions before work can commence on development and I suspect Tanjah will have time to get one at most. (You need outline planning permission for X units. Tanjah may have this. You also need detailed plannig permission. You need finalised plans for this. I doubt very much that this in place. You also need some sort of permission around infrastructure - don't know much about this.)

One of the pluses if you do manage to find a smaller development where risks are satisfactory is that it probably all has to be delivered at same time. This is good for rentals. In Saidia the first apartments are due to complete next month and the owners of those are going to have poor rentals while the area around them is being developed. Saidia isn't scheduled to be complete till the end of 2010. That said, I much prefer Saidia as an investment.

Edited by The Soup Dragon

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I'm still considering this development... Sitting on the fence at the momment as most of you should....don't get bullied or pressured into reserving one yet though. This is a extremely large development and many units left...

I think this needs more research, and more detailed plans from developers. The pdfs I keep being sent just are no way detailed enough. You dont know where the extra swimming pools will be... You only get a rough idea of where you balcony will face assuming they are put on site exactly at the same angle.

Also lets not forget this development wont be ready until the end of 2009 or even 2010 depending how work goes.

The 10% rental guarantee seems odd??? Why do this when most others are selling and dont offer a rental guarantee, and others I've found who do, only offer 6%.

Finally that road infront the development worries me...... I know there is another new motorway behind the development built now, but the road by the coast will still be used. Not as if you can just let the children run off to the beach on there own?

To sum up, I haven't ruled Tanjah out yet, just doing more research and watching the news on this development over the next month or so before commiting anything.

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Wallace,

As far as I'm aware SAGA don't deal in self-catering accommodation, so I would check that out.

Also, rental 'guarantees' are invariably factored into the price. simple way to check; ask the developer how much he will take for a property without a guarantee.

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I was so close to purchasing in Morroco a couple of weeks ago with Tanja but now I have some concerns with them. I've started looking at other developments in Morroco but prices seem to be all over the place. Im finding it hard to compare places and payment schemes. I don't want to commit to much money towards this venture (in the region of 20k-25k max).

Tanja had 2 bed apartments for 85k with a sea or golf view, but best of all only 25% deposit required the rest financed via a mortgage. If anyone can suggest what other places I should be considering. Help appreciated....

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