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How Far Will The Lenders Go

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How far will the lenders go i am now asking myself, what lengths will they go so as to keep the momentum going, will they introduce 40 year mortgages or even 50 or 60, even 70+ and then pass it onto the next generation.

Maybe one day it will get to the point where everyone in the UK has taken out a fraudulant mortgage, and a interest only one at that.

Three years ago i made the decision that i was going to be debt free for a while, and that i was going to focus on my business, the plan was that in a few years of very hard graft in getting my business on a sound footing would then hopefully leave me with something that would see me right for the rest of my life, the rewards i thought would come later(i hope they still will).

I have been of the opinion for a while that many people in this Country are slowly hanging themselves with debt, eventually the lending of cheap money would have to end and that there would then be no longer anymore money to prop the housing market up. My concern now is how far will the lenders go, is it a case or all or nothing, and will the solution be to bail the reckless out and stuff the likes of me and you.

I earn well in excess of £50k a year, but for arguments sake i put £50k into a mortgage calculator this morning, it gave me a figure of £174k mortgage, that does not get me much around here. I know there are ways around this, but why should i have to do it the nudge nudge wink wink way.

thoughts please

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How far will the lenders go i am now asking myself, what lengths will they go so as to keep the momentum going, will they introduce 40 year mortgages or even 50 or 60, even 70+ and then pass it onto the next generation.

Maybe one day it will get to the point where everyone in the UK has taken out a fraudulant mortgage, and a interest only one at that.

Three years ago i made the decision that i was going to be debt free for a while, and that i was going to focus on my business, the plan was that in a few years of very hard graft in getting my business on a sound footing would then hopefully leave me with something that would see me right for the rest of my life, the rewards i thought would come later(i hope they still will).

I have been of the opinion for a while that many people in this Country are slowly hanging themselves with debt, eventually the lending of cheap money would have to end and that there would then be no longer anymore money to prop the housing market up. My concern now is how far will the lenders go, is it a case or all or nothing, and will the solution be to bail the reckless out and stuff the likes of me and you.

I earn well in excess of £50k a year, but for arguments sake i put £50k into a mortgage calculator this morning, it gave me a figure of £174k mortgage, that does not get me much around here. I know there are ways around this, but why should i have to do it the nudge nudge wink wink way.

thoughts please

I agree completely, in that the growing mountain of unsecured debt will eventually become a noose for many people. The most intersting recent development is the June mortgage lending figures "the highest monthly figure on record"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5197706.stm

This is for one of two reasons;

1. People have finally said "stuff it" or similar ;-) and taken the plunge, borrowing huge anmounts to finance their new home or, as I suspect

2. People are clearing their short-term unsecured (but costly on a month-by-month basis) by re-mortgaging and paying off creedit cards / overdrafts etc.

If it is number 2, then it adds nothing to the economy, other than to give the same banks a better return in the long term.

If it is number 1 then we have a population of lemmings fighting to be first over the cliff edge. :ph34r:

Edited by john_d_uk

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Guest mattsta1964

How far will the lenders go i am now asking myself, what lengths will they go so as to keep the momentum going, will they introduce 40 year mortgages or even 50 or 60, even 70+ and then pass it onto the next generation.

Maybe one day it will get to the point where everyone in the UK has taken out a fraudulant mortgage, and a interest only one at that.

Three years ago i made the decision that i was going to be debt free for a while, and that i was going to focus on my business, the plan was that in a few years of very hard graft in getting my business on a sound footing would then hopefully leave me with something that would see me right for the rest of my life, the rewards i thought would come later(i hope they still will).

I have been of the opinion for a while that many people in this Country are slowly hanging themselves with debt, eventually the lending of cheap money would have to end and that there would then be no longer anymore money to prop the housing market up. My concern now is how far will the lenders go, is it a case or all or nothing, and will the solution be to bail the reckless out and stuff the likes of me and you.

I earn well in excess of £50k a year, but for arguments sake i put £50k into a mortgage calculator this morning, it gave me a figure of £174k mortgage, that does not get me much around here. I know there are ways around this, but why should i have to do it the nudge nudge wink wink way.

thoughts please

Engage 'Apocalyptic, World economy is fekked, miserable whinging git mode'

The modern global economy is a race with itself. Economic growth can only be sustained with ever greater sums of money, but because 'real' money is in such short supply, the banks and financial institutions create it out of thin air and to lend it into the economy at interest. The compound interest on global debt is increasing exponentially and thus the UK, USA and other 1st world economies are spiralling towards bankruptcy. There will come a time in the not too distant future when the first world economies wont be able to service the interest repayments on what they owe and then we will all be truly FUBARed.

Personally, the only reason I am still in the rat race is to see out my parents. After that, I'm gonna sell up and just travel the world. The world economy is doomed. The UK will be a third world country in 20 years, crippled with debt and social unrest. Partaking in the madness is futile.

Disengage 'Apocalyptic, World economy is fekked, miserable whinging git' Mode

Aaaahhhh! That's better! :blink:

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every week i have a lunch with a mate and house prices and the economy are always high on topics to talk over.

the lending thing is strange and slightly irrationa. however i have come to the only conclution that makes any sence.

people just will not stop borrowing,if money is being offered. the borrowing will only stop if the lenders stop lending. people just do not understand debt, and they just keep racking it up. and only when the lenders say you can not have any more will it stop. forget rates or interest payments, people just carry on untill somebody takes the toys away.

the real problem is that the banks know this, so if they stop lending then it all falls down. trouble is they dont want to lend if they are not going to get the money back. they are in a catch 22 of their own making.

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people just will not stop borrowing,if money is being offered. the borrowing will only stop if the lenders stop lending. people just do not understand debt, and they just keep racking it up.

Hedi - I think you've hit the nail on the head here. People have been sold on how much payments are each month and forget about how much the total debt is. Why would people take out an IO mortgage FFS? They are not interested in paying it back, just seeing if they can get by month to month. When employment increases start to bite more, when interest rates start to rise people will not be able to make these payments. It will unravel very quickly.

Even is IR don't rise - people will keep borrowing until they can't borrow anymore. It will unravel anyway - but it just might take a little longer...

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My brother works in the mortgage department of a major lender. He told me yesterday they are relaxing their lending criteria even more! Very worrying !!!

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Guest mattsta1964

The true rolling stone is the way to go.

There's a guy called Stuart Wilde, and I remember him pointing out that no conflict, no matter how global (like WWII) couldn't have been solved for the individual by a quick boat trip to somewhere peaceful.

It's gotta beat chasing the impossible here.

I look at my life here in the UK and I cannot escape the reality that I am completely wasting my time trying to achieve impossible goals. Even paying off my mortgage seems like the north face of the Eiger, a measly 85K, nothing compared with what some people are borrowing

It's very strange trying to live a debt free existence (Apart form my mortgage of course). I have no credit cards, no unsecured loans, I drive a knackered 10 year old car, I live in a bare uncarpeted flat with very few material possessions. My clothes hang on a frame I made from a sawn softwood with a broomhandle across the top (Seriously, LOL) I shop for clothes twice at most per annum, I don't have bookcases full of books or racks of CD's and DVD's. I don't have any hobbies because I can't afford to have them. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years. This is all despite the fact that I'm a degree qualified engineer earning an above average salary in the UK.

My conclusion

It's possible to exist without borrowing, but you're going to have a very sh*tty life

.

My choice is still, with the exception of my mortgage, NEVER to borrow money from banks.

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It's gotta beat chasing the impossible here.

It's very strange trying to live a debt free existence (Apart form my mortgage of course). I have no credit cards, no unsecured loans, I drive a knackered 10 year old car, I live in a bare uncarpeted flat with very few material possessions. My clothes hang on a frame I made from a sawn softwood with a broomhandle across the top (Seriously, LOL) I shop for clothes twice at most per annum, I don't have bookcases full of books or racks of CD's and DVD's. I don't have any hobbies because I can't afford to have them. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years. This is all despite the fact that I'm a degree qualified engineer earning an above average salary in the UK.

Couple o decades ago you had the potential to be the new breed o yuppy with credentials up above............fecked up country we live in.

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Guest mattsta1964

Couple o decades ago you had the potential to be the new breed o yuppy with credentials up above............fecked up country we live in.

If I hadn't been such a useless loser in the 80's, I'd probably be quite prosperous now

It gives me a very interesting insight into how difficult it is for people much younger than myself to cope in a world of uncontrollable debt because I'm basically on the same playing field as a 30 yr old............but with a lot less time to pay my mortgage, fund a pension etc.

The benefit of hindsight....................LOL

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How far will the lenders go i am now asking myself, what lengths will they go so as to keep the momentum going, will they introduce 40 year mortgages ....

On the news tonight here in the United States of Australia... talk of 40 year motgages; and the numpties think its a great idea!

:ph34r:

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Guest mattsta1964

On the news tonight here in the United States of Australia... talk of 40 year motgages; and the numpties think its a great idea!

:ph34r:

Seems the Aussies are even more property obsessed than us Pommie fools

Australia seems to be in a very similar situation to the UK

It's only advantage over the UK is it's natural resources and space.

The Aussies are heading for a fall too. They've adopted the same 'Borrow your way to prosperity' mantra accepted by the morons here with very similar economic woes

Welcome to fantasy land!

Are Ocean Finance selling loans on TV out there yet?

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The lenders will not have any choice but to raise rates as the cheap money from Japan dries up.

Sure, they will try and think of ways to keep the wagon rolling, probably 50 year mortgages, etc, but the increasing cost of credit will likely push us and others into a situation with higher unemployment, which will not be good for HPI.

Rock and a hard place IMO. The only variable is the timescale(s).

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It's gotta beat chasing the impossible here.

I look at my life here in the UK and I cannot escape the reality that I am completely wasting my time trying to achieve impossible goals. Even paying off my mortgage seems like the north face of the Eiger, a measly 85K, nothing compared with what some people are borrowing

It's very strange trying to live a debt free existence (Apart form my mortgage of course). I have no credit cards, no unsecured loans, I drive a knackered 10 year old car, I live in a bare uncarpeted flat with very few material possessions. My clothes hang on a frame I made from a sawn softwood with a broomhandle across the top (Seriously, LOL) I shop for clothes twice at most per annum, I don't have bookcases full of books or racks of CD's and DVD's. I don't have any hobbies because I can't afford to have them. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years. This is all despite the fact that I'm a degree qualified engineer earning an above average salary in the UK.

My conclusion

It's possible to exist without borrowing, but you're going to have a very sh*tty life

.

My choice is still, with the exception of my mortgage, NEVER to borrow money from banks.

I sometimes wish that I owned a property but after reading what you have had to say I,m glad I don,t ,I,m self employed don,t have any debt ,work about 9 months of the year,I go travelling for about 3 months every year,rent a cheap council flat ,I don,t live an extravagant life because I save all my money for travelling,everytime I come back I can,t help but laugh at all the miserable stressed out faces I see on the tube as I make my way home from the airport,mortgage and debt slaves all over the place and for what?

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We are trying to buy out way out of another global economic cycle again with debt

If the lenders continue to go 'all out' to avoid defaulters and the BOE refuses to raise IR then we are heading for hyperinflation - cash will be worthless

Edited by dnd

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Guest mattsta1964

I sometimes wish that I owned a property but after reading what you have had to say I,m glad I don,t ,I,m self employed don,t have any debt ,work about 9 months of the year,I go travelling for about 3 months every year,rent a cheap council flat ,I don,t live an extravagant life because I save all my money for travelling,everytime I come back I can,t help but laugh at all the miserable stressed out faces I see on the tube as I make my way home from the airport,mortgage and debt slaves all over the place and for what?

Yep. The grey pasty faces on the tube speak for themselves

Like I said earlier, as soon as my parents have pegged out, I'm selling up, opting out and gone from the UK FOREVER. The thought of spending the rest of my life here enriching a motgage company, dodging psychopaths and spivs is too hideous to contemplate. THANK HEAVENS I never had children!

I detest this country and I'm sad to say I detest the more educated British for having allowed it to degenerate into the worst scumhole in the modern world. It's circus for spivs, crooks and money grabbing scumbags. Any sense of fairplay, common sense, community spirit, goodwill to others was destroyed by Thatcher. It's a smash and grab, fekk over everyone you can for your own sake, s*it hole.

They say a people get the government they deserve. I'm afraid there's never been a truer statement. This country is run by the most disgracefully corrupt bunch of filthy lying cheating 'Line yer own pockets' scum in history. Blair should have his head impaled on a spike. They are utter FEKKN FILTH and WE put them there.

My brother is working for OXFAM in Chad. He gave up the rat race a few years ago. He's happier than he's ever been. His work as an engineer will provide power and clean water for the refugees pouring out of Sudan to escape the militias. He get's paid bugger all for it, but he sleeps well at night. Maybe I'll try and do something similar.

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Guest grumpy-old-man

Yep. The grey pasty faces on the tube speak for themselves

Like I said earlier, as soon as my parents have pegged out, I'm selling up, opting out and gone from the UK FOREVER. The thought of spending the rest of my life here enriching a motgage company, dodging psychopaths and spivs is too hideous to contemplate. THANK HEAVENS I never had children!

I detest this country and I'm sad to say I detest the more educated British for having allowed it to degenerate into the worst scumhole in the modern world. It's circus for spivs, crooks and money grabbing scumbags. Any sense of fairplay, common sense, community spirit, goodwill to others was destroyed by Thatcher. It's a smash and grab, fekk over everyone you can for your own sake, s*it hole.

They say a people get the government they deserve. I'm afraid there's never been a truer statement. This country is run by the most disgracefully corrupt bunch of filthy lying cheating 'Line yer own pockets' scum in history. Blair should have his head impaled on a spike. They are utter FEKKN FILTH and WE put them there.

My brother is working for OXFAM in Chad. He gave up the rat race a few years ago. He's happier than he's ever been. His work as an engineer will provide power and clean water for the refugees pouring out of Sudan to escape the militias. He get's paid bugger all for it, but he sleeps well at night. Maybe I'll try and do something similar.

great post mattsta1964 :)

we tried to escape last year but had to return for the childrens sake......we left it too late :( should have gone when they were about 8, but we couldn't afford it.

I have left a house paid for in France just in case.....you never knwo (not a typo :ph34r: )

hopefully they will retain my sceptical nature & see through the illisions that have been created by past/present governments.

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Thanks for the contributions to my original post, but i am still completly clueless to how far this will go. We now owe £1.3 Trillion, will that now climb to £2 Trillion, will we then go to £3 Trillion, then £5 Trillion, maybe even reach £10 Trillion in the not so distant future.

What is the limit, IS there a limit, should we have joined the party, at least we could have had a crack before we ALL become slaves.

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Thanks for the contributions to my original post, but i am still completly clueless to how far this will go. We now owe £1.3 Trillion, will that now climb to £2 Trillion, will we then go to £3 Trillion, then £5 Trillion, maybe even reach £10 Trillion in the not so distant future.

What is the limit, IS there a limit, should we have joined the party, at least we could have had a crack before we ALL become slaves.

IIRC the US is already 'bankrupt' - UK is probably heading the same way

BOE/UK Govenment seem intent on buying their way out through debt - like the US - BOE won't raise IR for fear of stifling borrowing and the lenders will still continue to lend for fear of stalling the economy and causing massive defaults

Edited by dnd

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Thanks for the contributions to my original post, but i am still completly clueless to how far this will go. We now owe £1.3 Trillion, will that now climb to £2 Trillion, will we then go to £3 Trillion, then £5 Trillion, maybe even reach £10 Trillion in the not so distant future.

It really depends on how much of the debt is allowed to be wiped out by bankruptcy.

When interest-rates start rising the debt will start increasing at a faster rate,

but some of that will get wiped out by bankruptcy. A ******ing shitload I imagine.

At the end of the day though, the banks will end up owning a larger proportion

of the countries tangible assets, so I doubt they'll be left out of pocket whatever happens.

What is the limit, IS there a limit, should we have joined the party, at least we could have had a crack before we ALL become slaves.

I've had similar thoughts.

The thing is though when it does all eventually come crashing down, if you're deep

in debt, you don't know how hard you're going to get hit.

In the US they've just changed the bankruptcy laws so it becomes much more

difficult to write off your debts. It's not inconceivable that similar legislation could

be propsed in the UK.

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Guest mattsta1964

great post mattsta1964 :)

we tried to escape last year but had to return for the childrens sake......we left it too late :( should have gone when they were about 8, but we couldn't afford it.

I have left a house paid for in France just in case.....you never knwo (not a typo :ph34r: )

hopefully they will retain my sceptical nature & see through the illisions that have been created by past/present governments.

Yes. I hope you can pass on your wisdom to your children.

The young generation today are debt enslaved automatons, 15-20k in debt by the time they've got their useless degree in psychology or golf course management. Most of them are still borderline illiterate.

Where is the idealism of the 60's generation or the anger of the Punks? Such freedom of thought is gone it seems, replaced by the bland drones of Coldplay and Keene. YUK!

Get out while you can at all costs. You've got a place in France?? Why can't you make a fresh start there? Not easy to find work I suppose. The French are kind of in denial too though I think. They will never be able to afford all their civil service pensions and healthcare costs. Personally, I think I will most probably look to settle somewhere in the far east. That's where all the money is heading. My favourite choice is the Spanish Pyrenees but I can't see myself earning a living there.

In 10 years, the Red Cross tents will be pitched on Clapham and Streatham common for all the homeowners bankrupted by the greatest pyramid selling scam in history.

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Guest mattsta1964

Thanks for the contributions to my original post, but i am still completly clueless to how far this will go. We now owe £1.3 Trillion, will that now climb to £2 Trillion, will we then go to £3 Trillion, then £5 Trillion, maybe even reach £10 Trillion in the not so distant future.

What is the limit, IS there a limit, should we have joined the party, at least we could have had a crack before we ALL become slaves.

Sam

The limit is when the UK is so indebted that it can't service the interest on what it owes. (We even trade our national debt in the money markets. How surreal is that?)

Simple as that really!

The compound interest on debt increases exponentially. You do know what an exponential curve on a graph looks like don't you?

It's taken about 300 years for us to arrive where we are on the curve. It's going to rise very very sharply now.

I saw one article saying US debt could rise from 9 trillion to 57 trillion in the next 10 years. We are approaching fiscal armageddon.

Have you noticed how knackered Blair looks on TV lately?It must be hard carrying the responsibility for you nations demise on your shoulders. He looks like a man who knows our destiny and he knows we are all screwed.

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Yes. I hope you can pass on your wisdom to your children.

The young generation today are debt enslaved automatons, 15-20k in debt by the time they've got their useless degree in psychology or golf course management. Most of them are still borderline illiterate.

Where is the idealism of the 60's generation or the anger of the Punks? Such freedom of thought is gone it seems, replaced by the bland drones of Coldplay and Keene. YUK!

Get out while you can at all costs. You've got a place in France?? Why can't you make a fresh start there? Not easy to find work I suppose. The French are kind of in denial too though I think. They will never be able to afford all their civil service pensions and healthcare costs. Personally, I think I will most probably look to settle somewhere in the far east. That's where all the money is heading. My favourite choice is the Spanish Pyrenees but I can't see myself earning a living there.

In 10 years, the Red Cross tents will be pitched on Clapham and Streatham common for all the homeowners bankrupted by the greatest pyramid selling scam in history.

Whilst there is lots to complain about in the UK there are many many people in europe that want to move there because the economy is probably one of the best in europe and much better than for example france and germany (yes its hard to believe but true). Socialist europe is great if you have a job but many dont. We are thinking of moving back since its so difficult for my girlfriend to get a proper job with a decent salary in Sweden. You complain about taxes in the UK but any earning here above 26k are taxed at 50% and the only major benefit is 12 months maternity leave split how you want between mother and father. Great if you have kids not great if you dont. Holidays are one thing living there is another.

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Guest Alright Jack

The banks will live to regret their folly in the coming years. There is no risk priced into the long rates - which people are taking up. When the currencies of the world start to really collapse, the banks will lose everything.

I think the people that may end up net winners tomorrow will surprise you!

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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