Bit Of Fun

[Goat]

I was wondering the other day how much it costs to run a household (ie 2 adults + 2 kids) and how that compares to household incomes. The result (not surprisingly) suggests that prices are unsustainable.

An average 3 bed semi in my area costs close to £300,000; I would guess that a reasonable household income would be itro £60,000 in the area. Assuming a £250,000 mortgage we can make some guesses as follows:

Net monthly income 3,600

Mortgage payment (1,600)

Income after mortgage 2,000

Food (400)

Car repayment/depreciation (400)

Pension contribution (500)

Fuel (200)

Insurance (100)

House repairs/decoration (250)

Council tax (100)

Other bills (100)

Clothing (200)

Holidays (100)

Spending money (600)

Monthly loss (950)

How reasonable do you think my figures look. There are some areas you could trim but there are other costs you could add as well.

[SueDeNimm]

Don't forget Childcare! Further into the red.

[billy-g]

I was wondering the other day how much it costs to run a household (ie 2 adults + 2 kids) and how that compares to household incomes. The result (not surprisingly) suggests that prices are unsustainable.

An average 3 bed semi in my area costs close to £300,000; I would guess that a reasonable household income would be itro £60,000 in the area. Assuming a £250,000 mortgage we can make some guesses as follows:

Net monthly income 3,600

Mortgage payment (1,600)

Income after mortgage 2,000

Food (400)

Car repayment/depreciation (400)

Pension contribution (500)

Fuel (200)

Insurance (100)

House repairs/decoration (250)

Council tax (100)

Other bills (100)

Clothing (200)

Holidays (100)

Spending money (600)

Monthly loss (950)

How reasonable do you think my figures look. There are some areas you could trim but there are other costs you could add as well.

Son, reading rhat pile of wasted bandwith, if ever any proof was needed that you have never ran a house, there it is. What a pile of tosh

£200 a month on clothes, err, shouldn't that be in spending money for a start?

£250 on repairs, decorating?? Utter rubbish.

£400 for a car?? ******.

Seriously, if those are the sort of figures that bears on here are using to try and justify a crash, then they need to give themselves a serious shake.

Cheers for the best laugh we have had in the office for a long, long time. Muppet

[Bucephalus]

Son, reading rhat pile of wasted bandwith, if ever any proof was needed that you have never ran a house, there it is. What a pile of tosh

£200 a month on clothes, err, shouldn't that be in spending money for a start?

£250 on repairs, decorating?? Utter rubbish.

£400 for a car?? ******.

Seriously, if those are the sort of figures that bears on here are using to try and justify a crash, then they need to give themselves a serious shake.

Cheers for the best laugh we have had in the office for a long, long time. Muppet

It's for the constructive debate that I come back to this forum.

[billy-g]

Yeah, I used to do constuctive debate on here. Had my moments at least. Then, after some posts where certain members plainly displayed an inability to grasp written text, I just laughed and decided 'whatever'

So when you read utter bullspit like that 'affordability survey' he has written, well...if he is that dumb, he has it coming.

Best to get out of Mummy's house and stand on his own to feet; then I will listen to his thoughts on monthly budgeting. Untill then, its like asking a chimp to do physics

[Goat]

Son, reading rhat pile of wasted bandwith, if ever any proof was needed that you have never ran a house, there it is. What a pile of tosh

£200 a month on clothes, err, shouldn't that be in spending money for a start?

£250 on repairs, decorating?? Utter rubbish.

£400 for a car?? ******.

Seriously, if those are the sort of figures that bears on here are using to try and justify a crash, then they need to give themselves a serious shake.

Cheers for the best laugh we have had in the office for a long, long time. Muppet

What figures do you suggest in their place?

Can you clothe someone for less than £600 p/a? perhaps but how much less

£250 PCM repairs? Suggestion is £3,000 p/a which is 1% of property value, a generally accepted figure.

£2,400 p/a per car for 2 cars, not exactly over the top.

If you can suggest better figures please do so, otherwise stop wasting everybody elses time. Muppet!

[enworb]

I was wondering the other day how much it costs to run a household (ie 2 adults + 2 kids) and how that compares to household incomes. The result (not surprisingly) suggests that prices are unsustainable.

An average 3 bed semi in my area costs close to £300,000; I would guess that a reasonable household income would be itro £60,000 in the area. Assuming a £250,000 mortgage we can make some guesses as follows:

Net monthly income 3,600

Mortgage payment (1,600)

Income after mortgage 2,000

Food (400)

Car repayment/depreciation (400)

Pension contribution (500)

Fuel (200)

Insurance (100)

House repairs/decoration (250)

Council tax (100)

Other bills (100)

Clothing (200)

Holidays (100)

Spending money (600)

Monthly loss (950)

How reasonable do you think my figures look. There are some areas you could trim but there are other costs you could add as well.

A lot of these budgets are more likely for someone living for free at home with their parents.

With homeownership comes tighter budgets and nothing is more important than paying the mortgage. Then bills, food and finally car, clothing, holiday etc.

It could take 5 years or or longer to be in total control of their finances before being able to splash out on luxuries.

But I still think it's easier to own a property than a lot of bears believe. If you can call giving up the Audi TT and luxury holidays easy

[Jason]

I've heard and read lots of arguments to why house prices are affordable. But what they assume is you will never have kids, and never have a pension.

For most FTBs buying now means the ultimate human desire to procreate and provide for the future (pension) is virtually an impossibility. It's only a matter of time until people catch on to this. The meaning of life is not to own your own house!!!

[zsuzsanna]

Yeah, I used to do constuctive debate on here. Had my moments at least. Then, after some posts where certain members plainly displayed an inability to grasp written text, I just laughed and decided 'whatever'

So when you read utter bullspit like that 'affordability survey' he has written, well...if he is that dumb, he has it coming.

Best to get out of Mummy's house and stand on his own to feet; then I will listen to his thoughts on monthly budgeting. Untill then, its like asking a chimp to do physics

There is no need to be rude. If you have nothing constructive to say, please make no comments.

[Goat]

Best to get out of Mummy's house and stand on his own to feet; then I will listen to his thoughts on monthly budgeting. Untill then, its like asking a chimp to do physics

Years ago F***wit, and as for your thoughts on my ability to do budgeting, I do it for a f***ing living.

[billy-g]

Enworb, your not wrong Sir

Young Muppet; read your own last post again. In particular, pay attention to the math. Then realise why its not even worth dignifing with an answer. Go eat your nice liunch your ma has no doubt lovingly prepared for you

"Years ago F***wit, and as for your thoughts on my ability to do budgeting, I do it for a f***ing living."

Brilliant!!!! This from a guy who thinks £200 a month on clothes equates to £600 Per Annum!!!

Clown. Your living in fantasy land pal if your trying to pull that you work in finance for a living after reading all that sh1te!!

Edited July 12, 2006 by billy-g

[Goat]

Enworb, your not wrong Sir

Young Muppet; read your own last post again. In particular, pay attention to the math. Then realise why its not even worth dignifing with an answer. Go eat your nice liunch your ma has no doubt lovingly prepared for you

Still nothing useful to add I see.

[billy-g]

"Still nothing useful to add I see"

Like you to the world of Finance you claim to inhabit

What is it then; 18k file clerk in an insurance office taking grief of the phones all day and taking the mail at 4.45

[Goat]

"Still nothing useful to add I see"

Like you to the world of Finance you claim to inhabit

What is it then; 18k file clerk in an insurance office taking grief of the phones all day and taking the mail at 4.45

Nope, a fully qualified accountant with a degree in economics.

What exactly is your issue with the suggested budget, how do you propose to trim £950 pcm off it?

[billy-g]

A degree in Economics, but your under the impression that £200 a month is £600 per annum.

Son, drop the fantasy. Its sad.

In the words of Bertrand Russell

“There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths”

Think on it.

[Bucephalus]

Brilliant!!!! This from a guy who thinks £200 a month on clothes equates to £600 Per Annum!!!

Well, let's do the calculations.

200 a month is 2400 a year (200*12=2400)

There are four people in his household.

That is 600 per person per year (2400/4=600)

Seems correct to me. Where is the mistake billy-g?

[Rachman]

His numbers don't work.

For a start, he's paying 17% of his gross wages in pension contributions - behave.

£400 a month is what people do pay out for cars, they are expensive, but people think they have to have a new one.

The clothes probably is not far off, for imprudent people.

The insurance is presumably for a house in Beirut on a fault line - our insurance is £280 this year for buildings and contents (inc most things) and the rebuild cost of the house is about £300K.....

plus he's assuming a non-homeowning lifestyle whilst a homeowner - things just don't work that way.

I paid out £19K for our two cars, one Passat (new) and one Focus (6 months old) - three years later, the Passat is booked trade at £6K and the Focus 9two years later) is booked at £5,750. Total cost is a lot less per month than the £400 - but he's right, people will pay out £250 a month without blinking, then pay out tax and maintenance without realising - all for something they simple don't need - but they want.

Holidays seems a bit steep for one, but cheap for two or four...... - but that's choice to spend that...

[billy-g]

The mistake is in his appropriation on clothing; its utter tosh. You can clothe an adult these days in good quality clothes on a hell of a lot less than £600 a year. Even been in a Tesco superstore or a Costco recently?

Like his spending money calculations; utter crap.

If his post isnt a wind up, then no wonder he cant afford a property if thats his thinking. That is the worst designed budget plan I've ever read. Must be hugely grateing to see those he no doubt views as lesser educated and capable getting on with life and getting ahead.

More bears pish

You can get a good 4.95% 3 year fixed rate no problems these days WITH NO TIE IN, if he factors that in and learns how to do a budget from there then I'll listen to him; suddenly £300k home on £60k salary becomes very do-able.

But then, no one on here wants to hear that do they?

They do get riled when they see the Hoi Polloi go out and do it though.

Edited July 12, 2006 by billy-g

[apom]

Son, reading rhat pile of wasted bandwith, if ever any proof was needed that you have never ran a house, there it is. What a pile of tosh

£200 a month on clothes, err, shouldn't that be in spending money for a start?

£250 on repairs, decorating?? Utter rubbish.

£400 for a car?? ******.

Seriously, if those are the sort of figures that bears on here are using to try and justify a crash, then they need to give themselves a serious shake.

Cheers for the best laugh we have had in the office for a long, long time. Muppet

Mate.

the correction is happening..

Yes, this was poorly thought out and that much on clothes would be considered a tad expensive.

but the modal average salary is less the £20,000 anywhere in this green and pleasent land.

(you sell to the modal average, any sales man thinking he sells to the mean resign fool..)

three bed house means kids, kids means one salry is reduced, lets say a montlhy income of £2700..

You might want people to have more, if they did house prices would have been this high a decade ago when the economy was healthier.

They weren't though they had just crashed. AGAIN.. for the third time... four booms and three crashes.... hmnn what comes next..

remember the simpsons episode where Lisa's hamster experiment show that the hamster could be trained not to press a button that had led to it recieving an electric shock..? remember the joke was that at the end Bart failed to learn...?

Its different this time??

do you honestly think that for every boom market that came before this one the experts were saying "Of course we think it is going to fail" no they didn't.. not all of them

They all fail morron

and odpm figures show prices dropping now across over 50% of britian..

Nooooo.. it can't be....... this time it is different.

bless you...

"One misguided person... ha ha ha.. our market must be safe.... lol...

we have fixed the econimic cycle... at the top of the biggest boom ever..

THEY HAVE ALL FAILED AND EVERY TIME PEOPLE ARE SURPRISED ALL THE WAY DOWN.

new builds announced 12% drops.. and that was the builders..

duh...

Edited July 12, 2006 by apom

[Charles_Darke]

Well for no kids, I get:

Rent (1,000)

Food (400)

Council tax (100)

Other bills (100)

Misc (200)

Total (1,800)

On a total income of £3,100, that leaves £1,300 in the bank each month.

[apom]

Well for no kids, I get:

Rent (1,000)

Food (400)

Council tax (100)

Other bills (100)

Misc (200)

Total (1,800)

On a total income of £3,100, that leaves £1,300 in the bank each month.

Most people earn less the £20,000

that is MOST.

Not add all the salaries up and divide by the number of people.

you have a great salary.. well done.

Most don't..

and most makes the market.

2003, 8.9% of the money spent back into the economy was mewed..

hMY GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN ABOVE BULLS>>>>>

[Charles_Darke]

Most people earn less the £20,000

that is MOST.

Not add all the salaries up and divide by the number of people.

you have a great salary.. well done.

Most don't..

and most makes the market.

2003, 8.9% of the money spent back into the economy was mewed..

hMY GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN ABOVE BULLS>>>>>

£3,100 net for 2 people isn't exactly great, IMO. However, I think with a deposit it should be enough to pay off a mortgage.

[Goat]

His numbers don't work.

For a start, he's paying 17% of his gross wages in pension contributions - behave.

£400 a month is what people do pay out for cars, they are expensive, but people think they have to have a new one.

The clothes probably is not far off, for imprudent people.

The insurance is presumably for a house in Beirut on a fault line - our insurance is £280 this year for buildings and contents (inc most things) and the rebuild cost of the house is about £300K.....

plus he's assuming a non-homeowning lifestyle whilst a homeowner - things just don't work that way.

I paid out £19K for our two cars, one Passat (new) and one Focus (6 months old) - three years later, the Passat is booked trade at £6K and the Focus 9two years later) is booked at £5,750. Total cost is a lot less per month than the £400 - but he's right, people will pay out £250 a month without blinking, then pay out tax and maintenance without realising - all for something they simple don't need - but they want.

Holidays seems a bit steep for one, but cheap for two or four...... - but that's choice to spend that...

Pension, £60,000 per annum = £5,000 pcm = 10%, I think you've taken 10% of the net to come up with 17%

Cars, yes maybe £200 per month per car on depreciation is a bit on the high side. That said I think £100 per month per car on fuel is low, and don't forget repairs etc.

Clothes, again perhaps on the high side, but then again what does a pair of shoes cost?

I don't think I'm assuming a non-homeowning lifestyle here, just a reasonable estimate of the budget of an average family.

The point I'm trying to make is that at current prices I can't see how an average family can make the budget work (£950 loss on my figures) at current prices. Something has to change, the only variable that can (materially) is the cost of housing.

[zag2me]

Net monthly income 3,600

Mortgage payment (1,600)

Income after mortgage 2,000

Food (400)

Car repayment/depreciation (400)

Pension contribution (500)

Fuel (200)

Insurance (100)

House repairs/decoration (250)

Council tax (100)

Other bills (100)

Clothing (200)

Holidays (100)

Spending money (600)

Monthly loss (950)

You might want to post these figures on the moneysavingexpert site, you could reduce them alot.

Car repayment is easy to reduce, just buy a cheaper car!

Food bill of £400 a month is a huge overspend, most people on MSE have got it down to £100 a month, there is a whole forum section for this

Fuel £200, wow you must live in the middle of knowwhere

Clothing £200, not sure about this one but maybe try and cut down on the burburry outfits for the kids?

Holidays, I wouldnt be taking holidays if you are overspending that much

House repairs and decorations, i've never seen this in a monthly budget, what about a home emergency insurance plan? they start at about £15pm

Pension contribution, £500, you employer should pay half of this, maybe you should look into BTL'ing

If you cut down on alot of stuff then it certainly is possible. Also 300k for a 3 bedroom house seems a little excessive, have you looked in cheaper areas?

Edited July 12, 2006 by zag2me

[Charles_Darke]

Pension, £60,000 per annum = £5,000 pcm = 10%, I think you've taken 10% of the net to come up with 17%

Cars, yes maybe £200 per month per car on depreciation is a bit on the high side. That said I think £100 per month per car on fuel is low, and don't forget repairs etc.

Clothes, again perhaps on the high side, but then again what does a pair of shoes cost?

I don't think I'm assuming a non-homeowning lifestyle here, just a reasonable estimate of the budget of an average family.

The point I'm trying to make is that at current prices I can't see how an average family can make the budget work (£950 loss on my figures) at current prices. Something has to change, the only variable that can (materially) is the cost of housing.

My clothes budget for a year is less than £200. Price of shoes is irrelevant, I buy shoes at most once every two years.

Car/fuel costs are definitely on the high side if you can get away with not running a car at all (I walk).

Pension: I have 6% pension (but income figure already takes this out).

I definitely think it's a non home-owning lifestyle. It's more like the lifestyle of my sister who lives with parents and pays no bills but still gets into debt on clothes and going out.