Channel Five Tuesday 8.00pm

[dogbox]

I am told 'Saidia' will feature.

[andy welland]

I am told 'Saidia' will feature.

Could you let me know what is said within the program......only because i live in Spain and channel 5 is impossible to get in the UK, let alone over here.

[euroscooby]

It wasn't.

[cocacolalight]

Shocking programme. Worst I have seen.

Quick guide:

presenter: how quickly can you double your money here?

estate agent: immediately

presenter: immediately? that seems quick?

estate agent: okay, one year

presenter: I was told 20% a year

estate agent: ah but with off-plan the price of land goes up AND the price of property goes up

end of conversation

at other points the presenter said you had to move very quickly then latr had to admit none of the properties seen had sold six months later!

Morocco - a charlatan's dream!

PS You can get Channel 5 in Spain through Sky

Edited July 4, 2006 by cocacolalight

[smilie]

I thought the programme was hilarious! Did not put Morocco in a good light at all.

The properties the presenter selected seemed really expensive to me for what they were. And yep it was very revealing that none of them had sold.

And most of the coastal off plan developments seemed a long way from the coast so are bound to lose their views as more development takes over. The Playa Vista one was first line - but looked a huge development. The so called price increases of the off plan developments highlighted are just the developer increasing his prices as the development is sold off (ie not real increases). The developments also all seemed to be in the middle of no where.

And the Marakesh development he decided to buy (3 bed villa), although it looked nice was miles away from the centre and was £165k! Hardly cheap for such a poor country! On what basis are prices going to increase dramatically above this? And how can locals afford these prices?

With the King deciding that he wants all these millions of tourists to visit in years to come there are going to be thousands of apartments built by the sounds of it. The oversupply problems and difficulites in selling on to realise these wonderful paper profits (what has happened in Spain and now happening in Bulgaria - I should know as I have bought there!) seems inevitable.

[cocacolalight]

Another thing about the programme, no mention of the fact that Morocco suffered terrorist attacks in 2003 against soft tourist targets - 45 died. The Foreign Office says thee is still "a high risk of terrorism". Hardly the sort of place you want to invest in.

PS loved the screams and low flying planes on every house visit!

Edited July 4, 2006 by cocacolalight

[Rikk03]

Another thing about the programme, no mention of the fact that Morocco suffered terrorist attacks in 2003 against soft tourist targets - 45 died. The Foreign Office says thee is still "a high risk of terrorism". Hardly the sort of place you want to invest in.

PS loved the screams and low flying planes on every house visit!

Something else people seem to forget, Morocco has suffered from extremely bad earthquakes, although I still think dogbox is right - despite the downsides, - too many people think that it is the next Dubai for it not to be - especially now that its been on TV.

Its not an investment for me, - too much hype - not enough reality.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Rikk03

[this_prisoner_is_opting_out]

haha 165k - what's that? 100x local annual salary and we stamp our feet at 10x. These overseas property shows make me cry with laughter, e.g., 50k for a house in Romania - the locals must be rubbing their hands in delight at the stupid Brits!

Andy, I live in Belgium and I get C5. Just get a dish set up (dead easy, I got an Australian to do mine! ), a sky receiver box and then I get all the UK channels - I bought a sky home card from ebay for about 30 quid.

[fws]

Yes Morocco is eventually going to suffer over-supply problems, but that is a long way in the future. Think of how long it's taken Spain to reach that situation. Bulgaria has always been a market over-hyped by speculation (short summer season, leagacy of the communist past, no-one who goes there on holiday wants to return etc) and people are going to lose out because they didn't do their due diligence.

The Moroccan tourist boom is being deliberately started as an economic policy by the king to bring in foreign money. The first of the Plan d'Azur sites is only open to foreign purchasers and prices are considerably higher than locals would pay - surely that's better than more Europeans sailing in with their "look at the cheap prices, let's buy up all the local houses and really price the Moroccans out of their home market" ?

Most of the off-plan resorts are on the coast - they appear to be inland because the sites tend to be large. We travelled on the new road along the Mediterranean coast last week. Huge investment in infrastructure by the government is creating jobs, bringing in the tourist pound will create more jobs. These may not be the kind of jobs and tourism may not be the way forward that many people see as the best way forward for the country, but it's the way the Moroccan elite have chosen. Personally I'd rather see new off-plan developments than foreigners buying up all the old medinas.

The programme made interesting points and the presenter should have taken that estate agent up on her assertions, but the fact that many people on this site love the idea of people getting burnt by investing in property, doesn't alter the economics of the situation in Morocco. Tourism has just started, prices are low, properties are being sold to foreigners, all of which is likely to lead to price increases.

[dogbox]

With every new opportunity there are always far more critics than advocates.

Thats why Warren Buffet says 'the time to get interested is when no one else is'.

This is a new market close to home with vast unspoiled beaches, snow capped mountains, excotic culture and year round weather.

As I keep pointing out, many big players are investing - are they all muppets?

You need to choose carefully though.

ANOTHER POINT: Some say 'how will the Moroccans ever afford these prices, where will capital growth come from'?

This is pretty patronising. Many Cities in India have had spectaculour capital growth that all the neg - heads said wasnt possible.

Not only that, the big well built complexes will mainly attract foreign tourists.

Im investing in what is currently a patch of scrub. The reason I hope to make FURTHER capital growth is the fact the tail - end Charlies (in 2009) will pay me a lot more once that patch of scrub is a real property they can see and touch, surrounded by 3 championship golf courses, world renowned restaurants, bars, the best marina in the Med, designer shops and hotels.

haha 165k - what's that? 100x local annual salary and we stamp our feet at 10x.

This is a prime example of a lifelong pessimist.

You make sweeping assumptions to fit a negative mind set.

In actual fact Marakesh has a rapidly expanding middle class that has money to burn. http//www.villasof morocco displays many villas renting for thousands of pounds per week.

Other thriving Cities include Cassablanca, Fez, Rabat and Tangier.

This is a funky place to be, no wonder its popular with the Gay market and Hippies.

The Pink Pound usualy sets the trend.

Another thing about the programme, no mention of the fact that Morocco suffered terrorist attacks in 2003 against soft tourist targets - 45 died. The Foreign Office says thee is still "a high risk of terrorism". Hardly the sort of place you want to invest in.

The Uk has some of the highest violent crime rates in the world. Does that stop people investing?

Terrorism afflicted the UK for decades yet the market plodded along.

[dogbox]

The so called price increases of the off plan developments highlighted are just the developer increasing his prices as the development is sold off (ie not real increases).

I reserved earlier this year on a first phase. Since then the exact same properties being released on the third phase are considerably more than I paid. If I was to sell my contract now I would obtain the third phase price point. Once the third phase is sold and once the properties are built demand will drive prices.

When you consider there will be 11 up market hotels within the grounds plus 840 berth marina, there will be a heck of a lot of people exposed to a small supply of villas which are surrounded on all sides by championship golf courses (golfers will see the villas set on islands within the courses and may want to buy yet supply is very limited and no further development is permitted for the first 15 years).

[smilie]

I reserved earlier this year on a first phase. Since then the exact same properties being released on the third phase are considerably more than I paid. If I was to sell my contract now I would obtain the third phase price point. Once the third phase is sold and once the properties are built demand will drive prices.

Hi Dogbox

Congratulations on making a huge paper profit.

One point the programme made clear was that the French and Spanish have been buying in Morocco for years - its only us Brits that have recently started buying.

As you know I have bought in Bulgaria. It was interesting to compare the programme last night to the one the same presenter did last week on a couple of British property developers in Bulgaria. All the same arguments you guys keep making about the prospects for Morocco can equally be said about Bulgaria (prospects for tourism, increased investment etc etc). Yep it has a shorter season, but Morocco has the terrorism threat and what would worry me most is that its not a democracy. What safeguards do you really have for the future?

[dogbox]

Hi Dogbox

As you know I have bought in Bulgaria. It was interesting to compare the programme last night to the one the same presenter did last week on a couple of British property developers in Bulgaria. All the same arguments you guys keep making about the prospects for Morocco can equally be said about Bulgaria (prospects for tourism, increased investment etc etc). Yep it has a shorter season, but Morocco has the terrorism threat and what would worry me most is that its not a democracy. What safeguards do you really have for the future?

A key factor for me is the type of development. The main developments (not the small one - off offerings) are all by large international developers. Mine is lead by Spains second largest developer.

Couple this with the fact these developments are aimed at the higher end of the market (which is why designer brands have purchsed the retail facilities and why many high end brand hotel chains have purchased land within these sites) and you end up with a fairly unique proposition.

This is further underpinned by strict development controls; 3 stories max (even hotels), 40% max built surfaces within each development.

This is not the case with other European nations where development has been ad - hoc and unplanned.

All this should add up to a fairly exclusive tourist proposition and something a little different.

Edited July 5, 2006 by dogbox

[cocacolalight]

A key factor for me is the type of development. The main developments (not the small one - off offerings) are all by large international developers. Mine is lead by Spains second largest developer.

Couple this with the fact these developments are aimed at the higher end of the market (which is why designer brands have purchsed the retail facilities and why many high end brand hotel chains have purchased land within these sites) and you end up with a fairly unique proposition.

This is further underpinned by strict development controls; 3 stories max (even hotels), 40% max built surfaces within each development.

This is not the case with other European nations where development has been ad - hoc and unplanned.

All this should add up to a fairly exclusive tourist proposition and something a little different.

Dogbox, you obiously have your head screwed on, and it is possible to make money in any market.

But surely you would have been embarrassed by last night's programme?

[fws]

But surely you would have been embarrassed by last night's programme?

Why should dogbox be embarrassed? Funny choice of words.

[dogbox]

Dogbox, you obiously have your head screwed on, and it is possible to make money in any market.

But surely you would have been embarrassed by last night's programme?

I know where youre comming from.

I take all these progs with a big pinch of Salt. They merely scratch the surface and are full of all sorts of inaccuracies.

A constant niggle is they say "he stands to make a cooool £50000 in 1 year", however they forget to account for lost interest on savings and or interest payable on UK mortgage to fund such adventures :angry:

Also that 'investor' was buying well inland and didnt seem to clearly know who future renters might be (if he couldnt sell say).

My research informed me that for the tourist market, villas are in far far greater demand on the coast and those on - golf (not near golf) attract a premium (Ive never been near a golf club btw).

Also another error I think he made was buying so far South as the flight time is quite a bit longer.

The Med coast is my choice, is close and crucially it isnt as windy as the Atlantic coast. This is important in a country where much of the land is sandy. A sand blast up the ars3 isnt my idea of fun (well, sometimes )

Edited July 5, 2006 by dogbox

[BigLog]

I know where youre comming from.

I take all these progs with a big pinch of Salt. They merely scratch the surface and are full of all sorts of inaccuracies.

A constant niggle is they say "he stands to make a cooool £50000 in 1 year", however they forget to account for lost interest on savings and or interest payable on UK mortgage to fund such adventures :angry:

Also that 'investor' was buying well inland and didnt seem to clearly know who future renters might be (if he couldnt sell say).

My research informed me that for the tourist market, villas are in far far greater demand on the coast and those on - golf (not near golf) attract a premium (Ive never been near a golf club btw).

Also another error I think he made was buying so far South as the flight time is quite a bit longer.

The Med coast is my choice, is close and crucially it isnt as windy as the Atlantic coast. This is important in a country where much of the land is sandy. A sand blast up the ars3 isnt my idea of fun (well, sometimes )

Yes but if these programmes were to have featured Saidia repeating all the rhetoric you are constantly blaring out, how big then would that pinch of salt be ??

Seems like you only want to believe want you want to believe.