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dubsie

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Recent figures show that unemployment is at 5.6% and jobless numbers could be as high as 2 million. In the last week 3 major companies in Notts have gone bust and just scouting the vacancy pages you start to realise that there ain't a lot work out there at the moment.

I suspect that many companies are simply not replacing staff but reluctant to make redundancies for the time being. However, if things continue we may see 1000's joining the unemployment line.

And 3 million on the dole house and the prospect of rising inflation..... prices will certainly tumble.

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Add to that all the immigrants coming in and taking the jobs and it's even worse.

many countries around the world have laws that make sure any job that can be done by a local is offered to locals and only if none have the skill can it be given to someone from another country.

and please spare me the crap about immigrants doing the jobs the brits won't do as it's an insult to many people in the UK who would do any job going.

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Add to that all the immigrants coming in and taking the jobs and it's even worse.

many countries around the world have laws that make sure any job that can be done by a local is offered to locals and only if none have the skill can it be given to someone from another country.

and please spare me the crap about immigrants doing the jobs the brits won't do as it's an insult to many people in the UK who would do any job going.

THEY....TOOK...OUR...JEEEEEEERBS! (anyone seen that southpark episode 'Goobacks'?)

Sorry justice, I infact agree with what you are saying to an extent. Our immigration system is in tatters.

In malaysia the system they have is that anyone can move there, ie they have no limit on immigration. You are all welcome. However, if you do come:

1) You have to pay for education

2) If you have a business, a certain proportion of your staff has to be Malaysian

3) You pay a slightly higher rate of tax

This seems fair to me, and infact Malaysia has a large net immigration, and the country benefits as a whole from it.

Edited by The Colour

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THEY....TOOK...OUR...JEEEEEEERBS! (anyone seen that southpark episode 'Goobacks'?)

Sorry justice, I infact agree with what you are saying to an extent. Our immigration system is in tatters.

In malaysia the system they have is that anyone can move there, ie they have no limit on immigration. You are all welcome. However, if you do come:

1) You have to pay for education

2) If you have a business, a certain proportion of your staff has to be Malaysian

3) You pay a slightly higher rate of tax

This seems fair to me, and infact Malaysia has a large net immigration, and the country benefits as a whole from it.

I'm not one to blame immigrants for everything but the fact that they are working here could end up being a very big problem if the economy does go tits. Jobless numbers are rising and only yesterday NUSWIFT made over 300 people redundant...

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THEY....TOOK...OUR...JEEEEEEERBS! (anyone seen that southpark episode 'Goobacks'?)

Sorry justice, I infact agree with what you are saying to an extent. Our immigration system is in tatters.

In malaysia the system they have is that anyone can move there, ie they have no limit on immigration. You are all welcome. However, if you do come:

1) You have to pay for education

2) If you have a business, a certain proportion of your staff has to be Malaysian

3) You pay a slightly higher rate of tax

This seems fair to me, and infact Malaysia has a large net immigration, and the country benefits as a whole from it.

You only brush over the system of institutionalised priviledge towards Malays.

Companies listed on the Kuala Lumpur Stock Exchange (Bursa Saham Kuala Lumpur) must find Bumiputras (ethnic Malays) to take up a minimum 30% of equity to satisfy listing requirements. MSC status companies listed on MESDAQ (Malaysia's latest stock exchange, modelled on the NASDAQ and other 'tech' stock exchanges) are not subject to this requirement.

A certain percentage of new housing in any development has to be sold to Bumiputra owners. Housing developers are required to provide a minimum 7% discount to Bumiputra buyers of these lots. There is no bumiputra discount on established housing.

A basket of government guaranteed and run mutual funds are available for purchase by Bumiputra buyers only.

Many government tendered projects require that companies submitting tenders be bumiputra owned. This requirement has led to non-Bumiputras teaming up with Bumiputra companies to obtain projects in a practice known as "Ali Baba" where Ali (the Bumiputra) exists solely to satisfy this requirement and Baba (the non Bumiputra) gives Ali a certain sum in exchange.

Projects were earmarked for Malay contractors to gain expertise in various fields. Often these projects would be sold as the bidders were not interested in the work, only in the gains that could be made from winning such a tender.

Approved Permits (APs) for automobiles preferentially allow Bumiputra to import vehicles. Automotive companies wishing to bring in cars need to have an AP to do so. APs were originally created to allow Bumiputra participation in the automotive industry since they were issued to companies with at least 70% Bumiputra ownership. In 2004, the Edge (a business newspaper) estimated that APs were worth approximately RM 35,000 a piece. They also estimated that Nasimuddin Amin, chairman of the Naza group received 6,387 for 2003, making him the largest recipient of APs. 12,234 APs were issued in 2003. In addition to APs, foreign car marquees are required to pay between 140% to 300% as an import duty.

Imagine if a government tried to install those priviledges for ethnic Britons!

Furthermore, this is their definition of an immigration amnesty:

"Some 380,000 unauthorized foreigners left during an "amnesty" that began in Fall 2004 and was extended several times. During amnesties, unauthorized foreigners can leave without paying fines for being illegally in the country. On March 1, 2005, some 300,000 policemen as well as the 560,000-strong Peoples Volunteer Corp began searching for the remaining unauthorized foreigners under Operation Tegas; the volunteers receive RM100 for each foreigner arrested."

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and please spare me the crap about immigrants doing the jobs the brits won't do as it's an insult to many people in the UK who would do any job going.

Yes it is an insult to the people who would do any job going, the trouble is such people are way outnumbered by the millions who wouldn't do any job going. I wouldn't say they are all lazy - the welfare system is such that they are actually better off living on benefits than getting a job.

Until the UK faces up to that and deals with it, large-scale immigration is inevitable.

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Skills shortages?

Were these the same skills shortages that led to companies running two piles of CV's - one for "expensive" internal labour, one for external (and largely skillless) external ones?

The same shortages that led to "skills gaps" being filled by those being trained up in order to enable the shifting of work abroad?

The same skills shortages in the NHS?

The same skills shortages in the bulding trade?

A job that cannot pay its way long term term in order to fund the cost of living in this country (or leads to a better job in a reasonable time) is not worth having. No wonder so many are playing the system.

As has been mentioned wait till the chips are down, unemployment will rocket and the safety valve of a lower paid job (but enough) to fill an employment gap will be gone. Empolyees in the IT and engineering sectors rolled over, the medical sector is only now complaining; wait till it hits bob the builder, and the average man in the street.

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THEY....TOOK...OUR...JEEEEEEERBS! (anyone seen that southpark episode 'Goobacks'?)

Sorry justice, I infact agree with what you are saying to an extent. Our immigration system is in tatters.

In malaysia the system they have is that anyone can move there, ie they have no limit on immigration. You are all welcome. However, if you do come:

1) You have to pay for education

2) If you have a business, a certain proportion of your staff has to be Malaysian

3) You pay a slightly higher rate of tax

This seems fair to me, and infact Malaysia has a large net immigration, and the country benefits as a whole from it.

Fair indeed. :)

The moors of spain didn't bother about people not being their religion - they just taxed them more :-)

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Yes it is an insult to the people who would do any job going, the trouble is such people are way outnumbered by the millions who wouldn't do any job going. I wouldn't say they are all lazy - the welfare system is such that they are actually better off living on benefits than getting a job.

I was made redundant from a very skilled job and after spending the last 6 months looking for a replacemnet job will probably not get employed in the IT industry again for various reasons that would easily make up another thread, I have now started to look at other jobs, an hour in the Job Centre nearly made me sick, looking through job after job made me realise that even at the very bottom end of the market the employers are very fussy and I have been refused interview for on all the ones Ive applied for, yes they require experience and references just to wash dishes or shovel sh**, also, the wages offered are not enough to live on, to break it down £5.10 ph = £191 per week subtract Tax and national insurance and you are left with £164 per week, cost of living on the outskirts of London where I live appox £30 for transport £50 for food (2 of us) £25 for council tax £20 for other bills (gusetimate that one) Then add up other stuff like clothing, dentist, etc etc etc and if you also had to pay rent or mortgage you couldnt possibly survive, I havent yet claimed unemployment benefit as I was too optimistic re getting another job however for those that want to know its £57.45 per week, you can get more on social securtiy ultimatly if you have kids and are paying rent etc etc. and dont have a penny in savings. So the whole issue then is not lazy Brits, it the whole system that relies on 'less than the cost of living wages' to stay in buisness or more likely just plain employer greed, even Ken Livingstones council has stated that a minimum living wage in London would be about £8 per hour. Eastern Europeans can do this because they see the value of the money sent back to Poland etc not how well off £5ph will make you in the UK, of course they have to live 6 to a flat to do it but if they can just send £50 per week back home thats a lot of money back there. Another point worth noting is that a lot of the people on this board believe they are underpaid when they are earning £30K+ Per year just because it isnt enough to buy a house and at the same time moaning about the lazy scum who dont want to work for the minumum wage, work out how much house the minimum wage will buy or even rent.

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Guest pioneer31

Add to that all the immigrants coming in and taking the jobs and it's even worse.

many countries around the world have laws that make sure any job that can be done by a local is offered to locals and only if none have the skill can it be given to someone from another country.

and please spare me the crap about immigrants doing the jobs the brits won't do as it's an insult to many people in the UK who would do any job going.

Exactly, the Brit haters should realise that it's not a case of British workers turning up their nose but more a case of fresh faced immigrants not realising how crap the wages really are.

They are the ones being taken advantage of.

Brits are just refusing to subscribe to slavery.

Edited by pioneer31

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As to Malaysia, yep, they let people in alright, In the 90's they had various booms going on, big building projects etc, so they invited in a lot of Indonisians to do the unskilled stuff, then they had a bit of a ressesion and wanted all these people out, many were origianly legal but decided to overstay their visas, this became an issue in the newspapers and with the government, so they had an amnisty to let them out without punishment, when this didnt get rid of them all they put up the afore mentioned bounty to catch the rest of them, of course this led to vigilanteism and groups of chapies with sticks would go round looking for them and when caught beat them to within and inch of their lives before handing them over. Recently I read that the economic boom had picked up again in Malaysia and they wanted Indonisians back there but they were having trouble convincing them to come over cause the expulsion beatings from earlier were well reported in the Indonesian press and quite rightly they were concerned for thier safey. Dont suspect that will happen here but can imagine the red top newspapers that now champion the import of cheap labour visavis lazy Brits, will be on their soap boxes re how the naughty governemt let in so many imigrants during the boom.

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an hour in the Job Centre nearly made me sick, looking through job after job made me realise that even at the very bottom end of the market the employers are very fussy and I have been refused interview for on all the ones Ive applied for, yes they require experience and references just to wash dishes or shovel sh**

It really is getting beyond a joke. Majority of jobs in this country, anyone with half a brain could do - the jobs are just a series of routines you get used to after a month or 2. Yet if you weren't washing dishes in the womb, you're not good enough to get the job. Must be so many people out of work at the minute if employers can be this fussy. I've been out of work for a couple of months bar a few days here n there for agencies. I wonder how many people are in my situation, but arent recorded as officially unemployed (im not on the dole). I live with my parents at the min, so i can get away with it. Though to be honest, they are skint aswell. Hopefully can get a job next week, I've applied to enough. So ******ing annoying. Jump through hoops to earn 5 quid an hour. Even thought id try and get qualified to do something i enjoy (gym instructor - i like to train, mainly for powerlifting)......got qualified BUT.....NO EXPERIENCE = NO JOB. Even more annoying is that i know about 100 times more than half the twats currently working in gyms. Break it down, gym instructor you need a qualification (albeit a small one, YMCA Level 2 is what I have) AND experience. To earn 5, maybe 6 quid if you're lucky, per hour. I've resigned myself to doing warehouse work, as it's all i have experience in. Seems to me if you don't make 100% the right choice at age 16, you're ******ed nowadays. If i didn't have a girlfriend id be a very angry young man.

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Yes it is an insult to the people who would do any job going, the trouble is such people are way outnumbered by the millions who wouldn't do any job going. I wouldn't say they are all lazy - the welfare system is such that they are actually better off living on benefits than getting a job.

Until the UK faces up to that and deals with it, large-scale immigration is inevitable.

Maybe people should start paying the going rate for services, everyone wants everything cheap. Service sector workers in my opinion work long hours and do a tough job for very little.

Immigration is a way of keeping down wages as the employers simply don't want to pay the going rate and customers want amazing service for peanuts. There should be a minimum wage of at least £7.00 per hour in the UK. All our food is now picked, packed and processed by migrant workers...many of whom are working way below the min of 4.00 per hour.

The UK always looks for the short term fix and never thinks about the next generation.

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Guest pioneer31

It really is getting beyond a joke. Majority of jobs in this country, anyone with half a brain could do - the jobs are just a series of routines you get used to after a month or 2. Yet if you weren't washing dishes in the womb, you're not good enough to get the job. Must be so many people out of work at the minute if employers can be this fussy. I've been out of work for a couple of months bar a few days here n there for agencies. I wonder how many people are in my situation, but arent recorded as officially unemployed (im not on the dole). I live with my parents at the min, so i can get away with it. Though to be honest, they are skint aswell. Hopefully can get a job next week, I've applied to enough. So ******ing annoying. Jump through hoops to earn 5 quid an hour. Even thought id try and get qualified to do something i enjoy (gym instructor - i like to train, mainly for powerlifting)......got qualified BUT.....NO EXPERIENCE = NO JOB. Even more annoying is that i know about 100 times more than half the twats currently working in gyms. Break it down, gym instructor you need a qualification (albeit a small one, YMCA Level 2 is what I have) AND experience. To earn 5, maybe 6 quid if you're lucky, per hour. I've resigned myself to doing warehouse work, as it's all i have experience in. Seems to me if you don't make 100% the right choice at age 16, you're ******ed nowadays. If i didn't have a girlfriend id be a very angry young man.

I think you may be right

I've made a few mistakes in my life (I'm now 34). The biggest mistake was going to Uni. I'm doing a job I like but I'd be on MUCH more if I had gone to work at 16 and worked up.

The best advice is - start work at 16, get your foot in the door early (whilst you're still prepared to work for peanuts). Offer to do ANYTHING at ANY wage.

The trouble is, in today's world, where every man and his dog go to Uni, grads come out at 21 (or older) and turn up their nose at anything under £20k. They don't realise that employers don't give a s**t if you've been to college. They just want experience.

I've always had an issue with the subject of 'experience'. You can have a thousand experiences or the same experience a thousand times. Many people fall into the latter category - and get good jobs out if - 10 years of mindless paper shuffling will beat any grad in an employers eyes

Edited by pioneer31

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I was made redundant from a very skilled job and after spending the last 6 months looking for a replacemnet job will probably not get employed in the IT industry again for various reasons that would easily make up another thread, I have now started to look at other jobs, an hour in the Job Centre nearly made me sick, looking through job after job made me realise that even at the very bottom end of the market the employers are very fussy and I have been refused interview for on all the ones Ive applied for, yes they require experience and references just to wash dishes or shovel sh**, also, the wages offered are not enough to live on, to break it down £5.10 ph = £191 per week subtract Tax and national insurance and you are left with £164 per week, cost of living on the outskirts of London where I live appox £30 for transport £50 for food (2 of us) £25 for council tax £20 for other bills (gusetimate that one) Then add up other stuff like clothing, dentist, etc etc etc and if you also had to pay rent or mortgage you couldnt possibly survive, I havent yet claimed unemployment benefit as I was too optimistic re getting another job however for those that want to know its £57.45 per week, you can get more on social securtiy ultimatly if you have kids and are paying rent etc etc. and dont have a penny in savings. So the whole issue then is not lazy Brits, it the whole system that relies on 'less than the cost of living wages' to stay in buisness or more likely just plain employer greed, even Ken Livingstones council has stated that a minimum living wage in London would be about £8 per hour. Eastern Europeans can do this because they see the value of the money sent back to Poland etc not how well off £5ph will make you in the UK, of course they have to live 6 to a flat to do it but if they can just send £50 per week back home thats a lot of money back there. Another point worth noting is that a lot of the people on this board believe they are underpaid when they are earning £30K+ Per year just because it isnt enough to buy a house and at the same time moaning about the lazy scum who dont want to work for the minumum wage, work out how much house the minimum wage will buy or even rent.

I completely sympathise and it makes me angry when the likes of Brown, Blair and Cameron seem to be uninterested what the majority of people deem to be important. Most people don't want to be rich they just want enough to live comfortably and a place they can call home.

Personally I think we should up the min wage and give the lowest earners 10,000 earnings before paying tax.

I was doing some installation work at a school a few months back and found out that the head teacher earn't over £90,000 per annum and all over the staff room were articles on how head teachers were underpaid. In the same school were technicians and support staff earning less than 11,000 and no paid school holidays. Yes a head teacher is probably worth it but the fact is 90k makes you very well off and to moan that you are underpaid is ironic when people in the same school on on the bread line.

When I was at college training to be a plumber, one of the tutors wrote 300,000 on the white board and asked us why this number was relevant to plumbing. It is actually the number of children that die each day across the world because they don't have access to clean water. The greed of the minority is simply murdering children across the globe in the name of capitalism. Families in poor countries grow, mine and produce cheap products for us to consume but are not even paid enough so they can buy clean water.

The same example can be seen here, people in our shops, farms, factories, hotels and restaurants work for wages that will never give them an opportunity to better themselves or their family.

I find the whole concept appalling and pretty gut wrenching.

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Personally I think we should up the min wage and give the lowest earners 10,000 earnings before paying tax.

I'd say £12,000. You need at least £1,000 pcm to survive.

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I'd say £12,000. You need at least £1,000 pcm to survive.

A recent survey showed that the vast majority of British people in the UK believe that the tax burden is too heavey for the lowest paid jobs. Even Middle income earners were willing to pay a little more to help those on the lowest with little or nothing.

Sir Menzies said: "My aim is to cut the burden of direct taxes on the low paid and Middle Britain and pay for it by raising taxes on those who pollute the environment and on the very wealthy."

I think everyone believes that workers should get fair pay and their pay should relate to the cost of living and housing. Getting immigrants to do low end jobs simply fuels the housing crisis and lowers the national wage. It also gives parties such as the BNP ammunition and would explain why they are doing so well in the polls.

Housing needs to be cheaper than it is now as wages simply won't support current lending trends. While we all want to keep our equitly in our homes the fact is this simply can't continue as if it does the chances of a large crash increases.

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The same example can be seen here, people in our shops, farms, factories, hotels and restaurants work for wages that will never give them an opportunity to better themselves or their family.

I find the whole concept appalling and pretty gut wrenching.

Its not all gloom though. My youngest Brother recently set - up as a general gardener. He delivered lots of leaflets and is now averaging between £500 - £1000 per week profit after all expenses, and just like the London cabbies et al, his Tax bill will be bice and low.

Another fig leaf; Polish and other E Europeans come into my business handing out cards. They are setting themselves up in all manner of self - employed positions. One I have come to know now has 3 teams of guys (some British) working for him on various building sites. He's only been here 2 years!!

I worked in a warehouse when I left school (late 1980s). For some years I felt just like you and wondered how I would ever make a fist of life. I was 32 before I set up my own business. It transformed my life. Id recommend it to you'all :)

I think everyone believes that workers should get fair pay

People will say this but wont back it with action.

In one breath they will agree with you in the next they will SHOP AROUND FOR THE CHEAPEST INSURANCE / SOFTWARE / PHONE CONTRACT / FLIGHTS / SUPERMARKET ETC.

Many leftie types Ive known are the worst for shopping around. They still have'nt sussed that cheap deal = cheap wages.

Edited by dogbox

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Guest pioneer31

A recent survey showed that the vast majority of British people in the UK believe that the tax burden is too heavey for the lowest paid jobs. Even Middle income earners were willing to pay a little more to help those on the lowest with little or nothing.

Sir Menzies said: "My aim is to cut the burden of direct taxes on the low paid and Middle Britain and pay for it by raising taxes on those who pollute the environment and on the very wealthy."

oh god

They trot out the same myths time and again, hoping that the new crop of fresh faced voters will fall for it. On the whole they do.

You can't tax the rich and save the poor:

i) the rich have enough money to pay someone to dodge the taxes

ii) there aren't enough rich around.

Politicians know this

Nice idea though.

Edited by pioneer31

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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