Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
gruffydd

Buy-to-let Properties - Are They Ever Ethical Article!

Recommended Posts

Ethical Consumer 101 July/August 2006

Features

Nuclear Spin

How the nuclear industry is going for a radical image change, with a lot of help from a large PR budget

Swallowed up

Are the current crop of buyouts of smaller ethical companies something to be celebrated or mourned?

Eco worrier

Buy-to-let properties - are they ever ethical?

Plus

Interview with permaculture teacher Patrick Whitefield

Dubya's diary

Wrong arm of the law

CSR speak

News

Boycott updates - focus on the Body Shop after its sell-out to L'Oreal

Money news

Ethiscores - ice cream and bananas

Edited by gruffydd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ethical Consumer 101 July/August 2006

Features

Nuclear Spin

How the nuclear industry is going for a radical image change, with a lot of help from a large PR budget

Swallowed up

Are the current crop of buyouts of smaller ethical companies something to be celebrated or mourned?

Eco worrier

Buy-to-let properties - are they ever ethical?

Plus

Interview with permaculture teacher Patrick Whitefield

Dubya's diary

Wrong arm of the law

CSR speak

News

Boycott updates - focus on the Body Shop after its sell-out to L'Oreal

Money news

Ethiscores - ice cream and bananas

It's a great article. Simon Birch ends it with:

Quite simply if you sign up to the buy-to-let market you're buying into a value system which is helping to widen the gulf which already exists in Blair's Britain between the haves and have nots. So does this all add up to make buy-to-let an unethical investment? Perhaps the people best qualified to answer this question are the residents of Moss Side and Banff who can no longer afford to buy a home in their own community.

You can email your support for the piece to: scbirch@compuserve.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we have a link to the article please

I'm not sure if it's online. I've got the magazine in front of me. I'll have a look...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good article. Buy-to-leech infestors have caused misery across the nation, helping to turn cities into polarised places where the rich play, those poor enough to qualify for the dregs of the welfare state are trapped, and everyone in the middle sees a massive reduction in quality of life. I always remember in about 2002 asking an EA about three different one bed flats he had in his window:

'They were sold this morning to the same investor'.

Bastards - hoovering up with freshly created money the homes me and my wife would have needed to bankrupt ourselves to buy at the time.

When people say, 'Ahh, but BTLers are just providing homes to rent and providing a service' I respond: 'To those they've economically cleansed that's like a Doctor breaking your arm then offering to put it in plaster'.

Scumbags, the lot of them...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When people say, 'Ahh, but BTLers are just providing homes to rent and providing a service' I respond: 'To those they've economically cleansed that's like a Doctor breaking your arm then offering to put it in plaster'.

Scumbags, the lot of them...

:lol:

Couldn't agree more!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Cooperative bank also offers BTL - anyone care to call them and object? - they say they're not going to consider withdrawing BTL until more people do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Cooperative bank also offers BTL - anyone care to call them and object? - they say they're not going to consider withdrawing BTL until more people do.

Ringing them right now...

They couldn't tell me for certain if they offered buy-to-let mortgages but did offer me a personal loan of £20,000. I asked for someone senior to ring me in the morning. I'll let you know what happens...

Edited by Mags

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/media/press/6

I've probably read this article wrong, so forgive me, but it seems to suggest that the BTL market accounts for 7% of all mortgage lending, that does seem a minor amount of the market to shoulder the whole blame for such high rises across the board.

Are there perhaps other factors to blame, perchance the first wave of FTB this century who were paying anything over the odds about 6 years ago to 'get on the ladder', do they not get defiled as well for being partly to blame?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Cooperative bank also offers BTL - anyone care to call them and object? - they say they're not going to consider withdrawing BTL until more people do.

I've been trying to get through to them. A friend just did and spoke to Tom Chadwick on 08000 288 288. Apparently he said that he sees nothing wrong with the bank offering buy to let mortgages because people need to rent!

Come on folks - ring them and complain. Apparently they were stroppy about that line being used as it was for potential new customers. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right. So because there is an identifiable demand, it must be ethical!

Perhaps they should start investing in BAT again as I know plenty of people who need a packet of cigarettes a day.

I'm deeply sceptical about the Co-ops so called 'ethical' policy. Call me a cynic, but I think it's little more than a gimmick to entice in gullible twits.

Sure, they'll make a few gestures, just as long as it doesn't hit the bottom line.

Apparently the guy had no understanding of the issue.

Ring the Co-op folks! Tell them your views!

Edited by Mags

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/media/press/6

I've probably read this article wrong, so forgive me, but it seems to suggest that the BTL market accounts for 7% of all mortgage lending, that does seem a minor amount of the market to shoulder the whole blame for such high rises across the board.

Are there perhaps other factors to blame, perchance the first wave of FTB this century who were paying anything over the odds about 6 years ago to 'get on the ladder', do they not get defiled as well for being partly to blame?

Yes but how many "normal" mortgages are actually being used on BTL properties? Say its another 7% then suddenly that's a sizeable portion of the market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes but how many "normal" mortgages are actually being used on BTL properties? Say its another 7% then suddenly that's a sizeable portion of the market.

I'll add to this & counter my own argument, I guess there are a fair few properties bought outright for BTL funded by excess equity.

Who is to blame for high house prices though, the sellers or the buyers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll add to this & counter my own argument, I guess there are a fair few properties bought outright for BTL funded by excess equity.

Who is to blame for high house prices though, the sellers or the buyers?

The buyers! Without them nothing gets sold. Seller can bleat on about their house being worth so much but it's the buyer that's responsible for what they pay. No one ever has to buy a house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The buyers! Without them nothing gets sold. Seller can bleat on about their house being worth so much but it's the buyer that's responsible for what they pay. No one ever has to buy a house.

So if a geezer came to you & offered £20kfor your beat up old motor worth £5k you'd tell them "no" just pay the fair price!

Were we all so pure of heart.

Still, on the credo that something is worth no less than somebody is prepared to pay for it, then the buyers are guilty.

So it is all still the fault of the FTB at the turn of this century raising the prices to 'get on the ladder'.

Oh, apparently you do 'HAVE' to buy a house, dunno why, beats the hell outta me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if a geezer came to you & offered £20kfor your beat up old motor worth £5k you'd tell them "no" just pay the fair price!

Were we all so pure of heart.

Still, on the credo that something is worth no less than somebody is prepared to pay for it, then the buyers are guilty.

So it is all still the fault of the FTB at the turn of this century raising the prices to 'get on the ladder'.

Oh, apparently you do 'HAVE' to buy a house, dunno why, beats the hell outta me!

That's a tricky one! But still the responsibility lies with the buyer. Why would they want to pay over the odds? If every FTB said 'this is what I can reasonably afford' the bubble would never have happened. But too many people listened when others said you have to buy a house and you have to pay whatever is asked for it. Just say no!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ethical Consumer Magazine have kindly given us permission to publish this article

Are buy-to-lets unethical

New PricedOut article on Buy-to-let

The Cooperative Bank is still dragging its heels over its policy of offering BTL mortgages. It's very surprising that a bank that claims to be ethically minded should even contemplate offering such a product. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes but how many "normal" mortgages are actually being used on BTL properties? Say its another 7% then suddenly that's a sizeable portion of the market.

a girl at work owns a property as does her boyfriend. They now are both letting their properties and searching to buy a place for them to live together. So 3 properties between 2 people, and i bet they haven't told the bank they are letting their properties. Like another guy i know who is letting out his flat and living in cheaper shared accomodation now!

The banks need to force people to tell them if the are renting out their property, as this would give a better view of the percentage of buy to let. Then the government should be taxing people a lot more for owning more than 1 property particulary if they can't prove they spend more than a certain percentage of their time in them (refering to holiday homes)

well thats my opinion anyway! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The banks need to force people to tell them if the are renting out their property, as this would give a better view of the percentage of buy to let. Then the government should be taxing people a lot more for owning more than 1 property particulary if they can't prove they spend more than a certain percentage of their time in them (refering to holiday homes)

The banks do force people to tell them that, if they don't do it they are in violation of their contract!

There's a little bit highlighting this in the latest article we've published:

The Issues - Buy To Let

...

With the CML reporting more than 700,000 outstanding mortgages the impact is obvious, BTL activity has displaced hundreds of thousands of, most likely, young home buyers. These figures may not even encompass the whole of the problem since they do not include investment properties bought without a mortgage and properties that have become BTL properties without notifying the mortgage company.

...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ethical Consumer 101 July/August 2006

Features

Nuclear Spin

How the nuclear industry is going for a radical image change, with a lot of help from a large PR budget

Swallowed up

Are the current crop of buyouts of smaller ethical companies something to be celebrated or mourned?

Eco worrier

Buy-to-let properties - are they ever ethical?

Plus

Interview with permaculture teacher Patrick Whitefield

Dubya's diary

Wrong arm of the law

CSR speak

News

Boycott updates - focus on the Body Shop after its sell-out to L'Oreal

Money news

Ethiscores - ice cream and bananas

One major problem is that not enough dwellings have been built to cope with demand. You can't blame people for attempting to achieve financial freedom by getting up off their backsides also taking risks into the bargain and being subject to (large amounts of) tax - That's just what business generally is about - You have picked on B2L but you could say the same about any business which charges more for a product than it's intrinsic worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One major problem is that not enough dwellings have been built to cope with demand. You can't blame people for attempting to achieve financial freedom by getting up off their backsides also taking risks into the bargain and being subject to (large amounts of) tax - That's just what business generally is about - You have picked on B2L but you could say the same about any business which charges more for a product than it's intrinsic worth.

Yes you can blame people for doing that if it is adversely affecting someone else. We don't have rights and freedoms without responsibility. Housing is different from 'products'. Here's another scenario - I could make money by being a pimp or selling arms or drugs. You can't blame me for this. I'm only trying to achieve financial freedom! Some activities are socially acceptable. Some aren't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One major problem is that not enough dwellings have been built to cope with demand. You can't blame people for attempting to achieve financial freedom by getting up off their backsides also taking risks into the bargain and being subject to (large amounts of) tax - That's just what business generally is about - You have picked on B2L but you could say the same about any business which charges more for a product than it's intrinsic worth.

You also can't ignore the fact that the investment and home buyer sectors can't co-exist with an effect on each other. The problem is the sheer scale of BTL activity has distorted the market against home buyers.

From our article...

PricedOut_PercentageBTLOfNewMortgages.PNG

Do we want that to continue, speculation on a required human need isn't necessarily desirable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.