Guest mattsta1964 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I feel like a bit of a lame monkey writing this cos I can't organise my own life let alone any kind of campaign but surely, the only way we are gonna get heard is for some of the more enterprising individuals on this site to organise a proper public campaign rather than whinging amongst ourselves here. Whenever I hear politicians on Question Time or any of the other current affairs programmes on TV or Radio 4, all questions about the plight of FTB's and people struggling with the crippling cost of housing, it is conveniently brushed off as a non issue. I makes my blood boil! The only way it can be brought to public attention and ACTED on is a concerted public campaign. Jaysus! The one thing that really frustrates me about the British is their tolerance, good nature and general apathy has become an real obstacle to ever getting anything changed in this bloody country. Just witness how the French and Spanish behave when they feel their rights are being trampled on. It doesn't matter whether you agree with them. The fact that they got of their backsides and did something is creditable and we must do the same. And though I don't have the skills required to organise such an event, you can be absolutely sure that I would would fully support such a campaign, with any modest donation I can afford and I suggest, if you are really serious about doing something about this dreadful situation, you should all make the same commitment Hope I don't sound like a sanctimonious git preaching the gospel but I really do think there are limits to what can be achieved on this site, excellent and informative though it is. The only way the politicians will listen is affirmative action, not chatting amongst ourselves here. This is a fantastic forum. Essential weekend reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 (edited) Campaign Shmampaign. You can't buck the market with campaigns. The HPC will happen as and when the market sees fit, which I suspect will be 2007. The cracks are already showing and getting longer and wider. Campaigns just make us look petulant. Edited June 25, 2006 by tahoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Campaign Shmampaign. You can't buck the market with campaigns. The HPC will happen as and when the market sees fit, which I suspect will be 2007. The cracks are already showing and getting longer and wider. Campaigns just make us look petulant. There's nothing petulant about it at all. An affordable home is not only an essential basic requirement of any decent civilized society, it is also an essential psychololical requirement for a balanced healthy society. The high cost of housing isn't just damaging our economy, it is ruining peoples' lives, people who are working, paying taxes and making a contribution to UK plc. The assumed currrent wisdom that high property prices are a good thing must be counterbalanced by the extremely damaging consequences disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of people from having any kind of stake in society. That message is not being put across. What is the point of working, paying taxes etc if you can't even afford somewhere to live? The penny hasn't dropped yet with the morons who run the country. But it will! It will! There are some more fortunate people on this forum who are so fed up, they are leaving the country for good and I would do the same if I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickbloke Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 There's nothing petulant about it at all. An affordable home is not only an essential basic requirement of any decent civilized society, it is also an essential psychololical requirement for a balanced healthy society. The high cost of housing isn't just damaging our economy, it is ruining peoples' lives, people who are working, paying taxes and making a contribution to UK plc. The assumed currrent wisdom that high property prices are a good thing must be counterbalanced by the extremely damaging consequences disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of people from having any kind of stake in society. That message is not being put across. What is the point of working, paying taxes etc if you can't even afford somewhere to live? The penny hasn't dropped yet with the morons who run the country. But it will! It will! There are some more fortunate people on this forum who are so fed up, they are leaving the country for good and I would do the same if I could. Check out the current 'streets of spain' thread on this forum, it may prove insightful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Property Dreamer Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 There's nothing petulant about it at all. An affordable home is not only an essential basic requirement of any decent civilized society, it is also an essential psychololical requirement for a balanced healthy society. The high cost of housing isn't just damaging our economy, it is ruining peoples' lives, people who are working, paying taxes and making a contribution to UK plc. The assumed currrent wisdom that high property prices are a good thing must be counterbalanced by the extremely damaging consequences disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of people from having any kind of stake in society. That message is not being put across. What is the point of working, paying taxes etc if you can't even afford somewhere to live? The penny hasn't dropped yet with the morons who run the country. But it will! It will! There are some more fortunate people on this forum who are so fed up, they are leaving the country for good and I would do the same if I could. BANG.... the sound of the nail being whacked by the hammer. Sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattsta1964 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Check out the current 'streets of spain' thread on this forum, it may prove insightful. Yeah! I read it. Why aren't people doing the same here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Als Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Yeah! I read it. Why aren't people doing the same here? There is the Priced Out campaign. http://www.pricedout.org.uk/ Keep an eye on the Spanish Streets thread. It could be the beginning of something more organised. Perhaps in conjunction with protests in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 GOOD EFFORT mattsta1964, but prepare to be shot down by all and sundry... these posters are more often than not sold to renters. this is a good cross section of the me society. id be suprised if more than 20 could prize themselves to a protest, though there will be social takers at the pub meets. in the end, i subscribed to their point of view. the market will do the job - no need to protest. were a sniff away from a rise in IR. the rest is in the history available. we could cause a stink, but it wont make a bit of difference. too many people are sunk to the nuts in this. only market forces will be a big enough momster to take them down. like japs fighting a godzilla with covential light weapons. godzilla would just brush them off and then crush a bullet train full of commuters. leave it to a bigger monster. then they will have an almighty fight smashing up power stations, harbours and city blocks. then once theyve battered each other senseless, we nip out of our shelters and buy up all the cheap flats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Moon Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Campaign Shmampaign. You can't buck the market with campaigns. The HPC will happen as and when the market sees fit, which I suspect will be 2007. The cracks are already showing and getting longer and wider. Campaigns just make us look petulant. What utter nonsense tahoma. See my thread re: Discourse and Action: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=30244 You seem to be one of those people with a simplistic 'A' Level depth understanding of economics. You obviously are the type of person who can only play out the role of 'passive victim of circumstance' and lack any imagination to do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainclamp Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 This is a more nonsense. This is a POLITICAL ECONOMY. 'Market forces' are as a result of political policy! eg; Massive immigration. Large tax breaks to over 40% earners on property etc... The only difference 'leaving it to dem thier market forces' will make, is seeing a whole pile of people renting from their landlord masters as in 1900! But with the added insult of existance cards to pay larger taxes, and deal with on top! If anti-globalisation campaigns can get 40,000 people to halt a city at a time, then this issue could easily create a far greater storm. Trouble is, people think they can sit on thier arses and houseprices will come down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 they came down last time on their own. as i see it, there isnt much more than hot air keeping them up. they are getting red faced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgeingBabyBoomer Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 (edited) The problem with a protest about house prices is that it is too two dimensional. It would be easy to protest, but what do these protesters want? Protester:-'house prices are too hiigh - something should be done' Interviewer - 'What do you exepct the government to do about it?' Protester: - 'Errr....' Howver I might be persuaded to protest about the real problems - land reform. - planning reform - anit-speculation laws I think until the HPC crew are clear about the causes and solutions, a protest would achieve little more than making them look like jealous and grabby oiks. ABB Edited June 25, 2006 by AgeingBabyBoomer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Protester:-'house prices are too hiigh - something should be done'Interviewer - 'What do you exepct the government to do about it?' Protester: - 'Errr....' Protester:-'house prices are too hiigh - something should be done' Interviewer - 'What do you exepct the government to do about it?' Protester: - 'Errr....' ....build more social housing for rental in inner citys. free up the so called greenbelt for new estates. tax second home owners to the max. tax capital gains on housing. that would be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgeingBabyBoomer Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 ....build more social housing for rental in inner citys. free up the so called greenbelt for new estates. tax second home owners to the max. tax capital gains on housing. that would be a start. So i) comes under subsidised housing ( IMO this is no solution, it just holds the current pyramind up) ii) comes under planning and land reform iii) and iv) come under anti speculation laws Which is my point - if you want to be taken serioulsy, you need a thought through agenda. ABB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 yEah, we need a campaign - why not a 'virtual' one that's online. PricedOut is doing good work by the way - they're a campaign. What do yous lot think of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janette Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Housing Ladder, Property investment ought not apply to housing. Its gambling, its a pyramid. Housing ought to be indexted and prices controlled. Even when housing does come down there will be a new crop of FTB's to do the same. We buy housing in other countries and push up prices there too. Strong economy reported today, how come? jobless figures going up again. Inheritence...ok for some but please dont put it into property. Inheritence causes "Same occupation two different lifestyles." I'm not against inheritence only how its spent. this site is listened to by the powers that be. They countereact our opinions on TV. I get the impression they think they are all and mighty poweful and the internet ought to be ignored. I think we are screeming for housing to come down and the TV is fighting to keep the prices high. It apears to be a battle between internet and TV. And TV talk like they have the cat in the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleBubbleTrouble Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Howver I might be persuaded to protest about the real problems - land reform. - planning reform - anit-speculation laws Agreed but you need to do it in a way that can be understood by your average lay person and avoids the obvious pitfalls which can be used to diminish your message. When you mention land reform - the danger is you get labelled as a green belt destroyer When you mention planning reform - out come the NIMBY's Anti speculation - well at first we thought this would be a political hot potato no MP would touch but that latest report from the housing select committee has us thinking it might be on the agenda It's a tricky area to campaign in but we're giving it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 What utter nonsense tahoma. See my thread re: Discourse and Action: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=30244 You seem to be one of those people with a simplistic 'A' Level depth understanding of economics. You obviously are the type of person who can only play out the role of 'passive victim of circumstance' and lack any imagination to do anything else. Go ahead, wave some placards - I think you're the ones who will look like sixth formers. Save the ad hominem arguments for someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Moon Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) Go ahead, wave some placards - I think you're the ones who will look like sixth formers. Save the ad hominem arguments for someone else. My response to you was much more than just mere ad hominem. Go back to my first posting on this thread and follow the link to read my Discourse and Action thread - i.e. my argument against your 'market forces explain everything' stance. Economists moved on a long time ago from thinking that meta theories and formulas in regard to market forces can explain everything about economic markets. For some time now there has been an acceptance that non-economic factors (such as discourse) have a significant impact on the direction and behaviour of markets. Your stance of 'market forces explain everything' would be fine if economies and markets (including the property market) operated in laboratory conditions, but they don't. Your stance of 'market forces' created the current situation and 'market forces' will change the current situation is simplistic and leads to a paralysis whereby you act out the role of 'powerless and passive victim of circumstance'. And the VI's of the UK property market that want house prices to remain high and to keep rising just love your - 'you just have to sit and wait it out as an individual, there is nothing else you can do' approach to the current situation. Basically, you have been taken in by the discourse environment that the VI's have created. Edited June 26, 2006 by Alfie Moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 this site is listened to by the powers that be. You should see a shrink. You are seriously delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) I've mentioned it before - the private sector pours millions of pounds into protesting/lobbying These companies are 'protesting' all the time. "I want more flexible lending controls," "I want to open all day Sunday," "I want to carry on advertising fastfood to children." "I want lower taxes" I want! I want! I want! Why do you think the Public Affairs industry is so huge? Corporate lobbyists are everywhere. Companies don't just "sit back an wait"! On top of all their own private lobbying, they have aggresive organisations, like the CBI, representing their interests. Who are representing the interests of FTBs???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Wise up! G PS I recall a large mobile phone company actually organising a very successful protest march in Berkshire coz it looked like it wasn't going to get planning permission for an expansion of / new premises (the pressure worked). Edited June 26, 2006 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickbloke Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I've mentioned it before - the private sector pours millions of pounds into protesting/lobbying These companies are 'protesting' all the time. "I want more flexible lending controls," "I want to open all day Sunday," "I want to carry on advertising fastfood to children." "I want lower taxes" I want! I want! I want! Why do you think the Public Affairs industry is so huge? Corporate lobbyists are everywhere. Companies don't just "sit back an wait"! On top of all their own private lobbying, they have aggresive organisations, like the CBI, representing their interests. Who are representing the interests of FTBs???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Wise up! G PS I recall a large mobile phone company actually organising a very successful protest march in Berkshire coz it looked like it wasn't going to get planning permission for an expansion of / new premises (the pressure worked). Wave placards about advertising that you want to spend money, of course it WI££ be successful. Waving placards to generate a LOSS for anybody who has invested in property whether as an income, long term investment or as a home will, I fear, be less effective. Since it appears apparent from previous similar episodes in recent financial history that market forces will restrain price rises anyway, wave your placards, claim it wos you wot done it, & I will smile benignly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Yes but wouldn't you get support from (1) Employers who are finding it difficult to recruit who would welcome a correction in house prices - including the CBI in the SW who are pushing for more affordable housing (2) Communities that are 'closing down' due to high house prices and speculation in property - rural areas especially (3) Young people who will never afford to buy (4) Parents of young people unable to buy due to house prices who may have to live at home leaching off their parent well into their 30s (5) Students already saddled with student debt pd off about house prices (6) Homeless charities and other organisations, like JRF (7) Politicians interested in social issues (8) Language activists (Wales specificially)......................I could continue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 BANG.... the sound of the nail being whacked by the hammer. Sweet. I agree, it is spot on, but it is all very well knowing how ill we are, how do we now get better????? My suggestion would be a Do not buy campaign, the downward momentum would start in months, a sizable fall within a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousePriceLottery Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I agree, it is spot on, but it is all very well knowing how ill we are, how do we now get better????? My suggestion would be a Do not buy campaign, the downward momentum would start in months, a sizable fall within a year. Thought about this but it would never be adhered too. The way to campaign this thing is to strike at the lie that's driving it. The lie that House Price Inflation is good thing for you. If you can undermine that erroneous belief in the common mindset then things will change for the better. Unfortunately HPC struggles in this respect since by it's very nature most of the people you are trying to influence can't accept it's core premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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