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bob todd

Stunned

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I'm stunned what is happening with the market. Last march I was in Canada and submitted a post about the unbelievable raises in house prices. Come on UK WAKE UP!!! The country is on its knees, jobs are being lossed, lower to middle England are keeping the place a float. Easy answer is to Stop Buying, tell them (EA's) to ramm it up their A%$E. Job Done. Common Sense, if you buy a car haggle, buying anything off the internet, you look. Buying a house is one of the most important transactions of your life, say bo%^ocks! Also I think all the London meets with HPC are regional bias and put a bad impression on the site. I envisage some farqua saying " oh , next meet, henrys wine bar pall mall". Or is that my northern chip? :P

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I'm stunned what is happening with the market. Last march I was in Canada and submitted a post about the unbelievable raises in house prices. Come on UK WAKE UP!!! The country is on its knees, jobs are being lossed, lower to middle England are keeping the place a float. Easy answer is to Stop Buying, tell them (EA's) to ramm it up their A%$E. Job Done. Common Sense, if you buy a car haggle, buying anything off the internet, you look. Buying a house is one of the most important transactions of your life, say bo%^ocks! Also I think all the London meets with HPC are regional bias and put a bad impression on the site. I envisage some farqua saying " oh , next meet, henrys wine bar pall mall". Or is that my northern chip? :P

Unfortunately, not everyone thinks like this. We have a buy buy buy attitude nowadays and b0ll0x to tommorrow. There are signs of credit tightening though and when people CANT buy things, even if they want to thats when things will change. IR rises will have a SIGNIFICANT EFFECT on housing and RETAIL.

TB

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Unfortunately, not everyone thinks like this. We have a buy buy buy attitude nowadays and b0ll0x to tommorrow. There are signs of credit tightening though and when people CANT buy things, even if they want to thats when things will change. IR rises will have a SIGNIFICANT EFFECT on housing and RETAIL.

TB

It's the 'b0ll0x to tommorrow' bit that worries me. Tommorrow is drawing very near.

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Can somebody define here what is 'too much' to pay for a house.

An example;

A couple on joint income of £60k may think £160k for a house is beneath their standards but the house they feel they 'deserve' is overpriced at £400k.

A couple on joint income minimum national wage would consider £160k way out of reach.

Having an affordable HOME to live in is within reach of most people in this country, whether it is bought or rented.

Having a HOUSE available at an affordable cost for it to be a viable investment vehicle is not a right, it is a luxury for those that can afford it.

Check out rightmove in coventry or birmingham for example & there are many affordable properties (under£100k).

All we are talking about here is an opinion, & if you happen to live in that £400k house then prices have probably not risen high enough yet as far as you are concerned.

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It's the 'b0ll0x to tommorrow' bit that worries me. Tommorrow is drawing very near.

Two years from now perma bears here will be saying this. If all fails, they'll come up with some **** and bull valuation stating, "House prices have fallen when compared to commodtities such as pork bellies and coffee."

:lol:

Asset prices will probably continue marching upwards until moeny supply become so restrictive as to cause a crash and there's no sign of it yet.

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Having an affordable HOME to live in is within reach of most people in this country, whether it is bought or rented.

Most of the areas around here - North London/North Home Counties - have 'homes' which are 10-12 times local average wages. You think that's affordable?

(And that's before your quoted 'a couple on 60k, or worse still, average wage' begin to even think about starting a family and losing one of those wage earners...)

Homes and houses are far, far from affordable.

Nomadd

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Most of the areas around here - North London/North Home Counties - have 'homes' which are 10-12 times local average wages. You think that's affordable?

(And that's before your quoted 'a couple on 60k, or worse still, average wage' begin to even think about starting a family and losing one of those wage earners...)

Homes and houses are far, far from affordable.

Nomadd

Again, this is house purchase you are quoting, why is that the only issue.

Rents are more affordable, so is home ownership in another area & commuting to work.

This is another 'Violet Elizabeth Bott' stamp & rant about

"I WANT the type of house I WANT in the area I WANT at the price I WANT, so there".

Owning the type of property you want in the area you want that will realise you a huge amount of equity at some point in the future is not a right or a guarantee in this country, in any other country, nor ever has been or ever will be.

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Guest grumpy-old-man

Can somebody define here what is 'too much' to pay for a house.

An example;

A couple on joint income of £60k may think £160k for a house is beneath their standards but the house they feel they 'deserve' is overpriced at £400k.

A couple on joint income minimum national wage would consider £160k way out of reach.

Having an affordable HOME to live in is within reach of most people in this country, whether it is bought or rented.

Having a HOUSE available at an affordable cost for it to be a viable investment vehicle is not a right, it is a luxury for those that can afford it.

Check out rightmove in coventry or birmingham for example & there are many affordable properties (under£100k).

All we are talking about here is an opinion, & if you happen to live in that £400k house then prices have probably not risen high enough yet as far as you are concerned.

do you think there is a link between the cheaper property areas and the job opportunities/salary ranges in these areas ;)

for example the highest property prices are in Londinium, the highest salaries are in Londinium.....hhhhmmmmm :ph34r:

Edited by grumpy-old-man

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Guest grumpy-old-man

No good you practising your Latin when you think I'm not looking! ;)

bu55er, you getting too good at this CO :P

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do you think there is a link between the cheaper property areas and the job opportunities/salary ranges in these areas ;)

for example the highest property prices are in Londinium, the highest salaries are in Londinium.....hhhhmmmmm :ph34r:

Golly gosh, are you suggesting that some folk expect to receive higher wages to compensate for working in an area that has higher house prices, then expect the house prices to be lowered so they can easily buy one as an investment vehicle without compromising their high tech, many holidayed, much hobbied, work in the office next door to the home life style.

I hadn't considered this.

Surely nobody could be that unreasonable?

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Again, this is house purchase you are quoting, why is that the only issue.

Rents are more affordable, so is home ownership in another area & commuting to work.

This is another 'Violet Elizabeth Bott' stamp & rant about

"I WANT the type of house I WANT in the area I WANT at the price I WANT, so there".

Owning the type of property you want in the area you want that will realise you a huge amount of equity at some point in the future is not a right or a guarantee in this country, in any other country, nor ever has been or ever will be.

Well said.

From the evidence of this forum, one thing that's changed significantly over the years is the expectations of FTBs and other younger buyers. In London and the SE at least, in the days when I was first looking to buy (the mid 80s) no one I knew was seriously looking to buy a house. It was all 1-bed flats. That's just the way it was. (Might have been different elsewhere in the country.)

Now, the people who most hate the property shows on TV seem nevertheless to have been influenced by them. FTBs are outraged because they can't buy a 3 bed house with garden in a nice area.

I didn't buy my first house (as opposed to flat) until I reached my 40s.

On the other question, it's still perfectly rational for people to be buying and selling property at the moment, as long as they are in it for the long term, and as long as they aren't over-leveraging themselves. I wouldn't go for a 100% I/O mortgage. If you can get a reasonable fixed-term repayment deal on a property on which you can put 10%+ down as a deposit, then I would do it. If there's a rocky period ahead, just ride it out, and concentrate on enjoying being in your own home, and not someone else's.

Edited by brassfarthing

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No good you practising your Latin when you think I'm not looking! ;)

suis Latinum non est malum. sed suis linguam Anglorium...

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Guest grumpy-old-man

Can somebody define here what is 'too much' to pay for a house.

An example;

A couple on joint income of £60k may think £160k for a house is beneath their standards but the house they feel they 'deserve' is overpriced at £400k.

A couple on joint income minimum national wage would consider £160k way out of reach.

Having an affordable HOME to live in is within reach of most people in this country, whether it is bought or rented.

Having a HOUSE available at an affordable cost for it to be a viable investment vehicle is not a right, it is a luxury for those that can afford it.

Check out rightmove in coventry or birmingham for example & there are many affordable properties (under£100k).

All we are talking about here is an opinion, & if you happen to live in that £400k house then prices have probably not risen high enough yet as far as you are concerned.

well let me put it more bluntly then, I disagree with the above statement & am quite surprised that you could say something like this tbh.

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Classic, the spoilt brat argument.

If you are not happy buying a grossly over-valued house in the middle of a global credit bubble, you're being selfish, and deserve to be carried off by a big crowd of squirrels, or turned into a giant blueberry.

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well let me put it more bluntly then, I disagree with the above statement & am quite surprised that you could say something like this tbh.

Please be blunt.

Why must you own a house?

Why must you only consider one area?

If you consider the prices too high, why must the seller amend this to suit your limited means? This is not an insult, every single person has limited means for house purchase, have you ever heard of living within your means. If you don't earn enough to buy the type of house you want then earn more or lower your sights or be patient, check out recent house price history.

You can have a TV, it needn't be a plasma.

You can have a mobile phone, it needn't be WAP enabled.

You can have an all inclusive holiday, it needn't be in Anitgua.

You can have a car, it needn't be a BMW.

You can have a house........

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Quote:-

"On the other question, it's still perfectly rational for people to be buying and selling property at the moment, as long as they are in it for the long term, and as long as they aren't over-leveraging themselves. "

I'm not so sure, jobs are being lost and there's plenty of people coming to this country who will work for much less than a "UK person". I'm wondering if we will enter an age of wage deflation, to keep up with the far-east & eastern Europe etc. Certainly in the business I work in, most of the shop floor workers are "non UK" because UK workers simply think a job on a production line is beneath them (and also I guess they cannot afford to buy a house to live in). The "non UK" people are quite prepared to live with family/friends, sometimes 10 in a house, so house prices and availability doesn't always affect them. Point is, the "non UK" people are much better workers, more concientious and more productive and courteous, and mostly better educated.

The trouble is, when someone buys a house for 400K, it actually costs them nearer to 800K when you think about how much they actually pay back over say 25 years. All that money taken out of the economy. Whereas, if you buy a house for 80K (3.5x average salary), then you only pay back say 160K, leaving youself a saving of 640K over 25 years say. That's a lot of money to have extra, which not many on this site seem to mention.

In the end, the standard of living & wages for the whole world will be equal, i.e. China will match UK etc. Then hopefully, there won't be any more global competition, and we can all go back to the good old days. I think this will take some time to achieve, and the UK will have to adjust "downwards", which will be a shock for a lot of people.

IMO, "over-leveraging" yourself is having a mortgage more than 3.5X salary or 2.5x joint whatever it was, that formula was evaluated over a long period of time for good reason.

I'm sure there are a few holes in my philosophy which will get pointed out, I don't pretend to be the world's expert, but that's where I think it will go.

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I'm not so sure, jobs are being lost and there's plenty of people coming to this country who will work for much less than a "UK person". I'm wondering if we will enter an age of wage deflation, to keep up with the far-east & eastern Europe etc. Certainly in the business I work in, most of the shop floor workers are "non UK" because UK workers simply think a job on a production line is beneath them (and also I guess they cannot afford to buy a house to live in). The "non UK" people are quite prepared to live with family/friends, sometimes 10 in a house, so house prices and availability doesn't always affect them. Point is, the "non UK" people are much better workers, more concientious and more productive and courteous, and mostly better educated.

The above quote actualy sums up the original theme of this thread, ie its maddness to pay the current prices, cause sooner or later the people that can now afford the long term price/mortgage are going to get skinned in one way or another, lots of folk turning up from all over the place to work gratefully for lower wages (10 to a room and sending the money home to get any value from it, which is something a UK person cant do, ie unfair advantage) , also on the job front, many jobs are being sent off shore and that is creeping up the food chain to high tech jobs (my telecoms engineering job went to Inida, the recipient of which now lives a much more up market lifestyle than I could in London for 1/8th the pay), and to think interest rates can be kept down for ever is absolute madness, they have been less than the real inflation rate for many years now via the various false accounting schemes. so hang on, save as much as you can and see what happens. Oh yeh, the banks are now offering so many different mortgage schemes to keeep the party going, ie parent loans, 40 yr mortgages etc etc, very much like in Japan 15 or so years ago, Japanese house prices are now the same as they were in 1987 so thats something to look forward to.

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Guest grumpy-old-man

Can somebody define here what is 'too much' to pay for a house.

An example;

A couple on joint income of £60k may think £160k for a house is beneath their standards but the house they feel they 'deserve' is overpriced at £400k.

A couple on joint income minimum national wage would consider £160k way out of reach.

Having an affordable HOME to live in is within reach of most people in this country, whether it is bought or rented.

Having a HOUSE available at an affordable cost for it to be a viable investment vehicle is not a right, it is a luxury for those that can afford it.

Check out rightmove in coventry or birmingham for example & there are many affordable properties (under£100k).

All we are talking about here is an opinion, & if you happen to live in that £400k house then prices have probably not risen high enough yet as far as you are concerned.

jujst dropped my son off, back now....

I said earlier, this is the bit I disagree with, the other bits you mentioned on your last post have nothing to do with what I commented on.

your last post

"Please be blunt.

Why must you own a house?

Why must you only consider one area?

If you consider the prices too high, why must the seller amend this to suit your limited means? This is not an insult, every single person has limited means for house purchase, have you ever heard of living within your means. If you don't earn enough to buy the type of house you want then earn more or lower your sights or be patient, check out recent house price history.

You can have a TV, it needn't be a plasma.

You can have a mobile phone, it needn't be WAP enabled.

You can have an all inclusive holiday, it needn't be in Anitgua.

You can have a car, it needn't be a BMW.

You can have a house........"

all very valid points, but nothing to do with what I commented on ? have I missed something ? did I misinterpret your posting ?

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You can have a car, it needn't be a BMW.

You can have a house........

.... if you're happy to stay in your first property for 10 years.

Point is, the housing 'ladder' has been broken for a while and is shortly to become a housing slide.

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warwickbloke

i agree that owning a home is not a right.

what is a right is to be able to live in decent accomodation at a reasonable price (ie you can still afford healthy food, respectable clothes etc). And to be stable there.

house prices will not stay at historically high prices for ever... if you wanna buy be patient.

BUT for people in that position (ie have to rent while they wait to buy what they want to buy), stability should be a right. i'd be tempted to make ASTs (Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreements) such that tenants can give 3 months notice at any time (even after 1 day), and 1 months notice to exercise the break clause every 6 months. I would make it impossible for the landlord to give notice before 3 years are up (unless the tenants are in arrears, or the property's sale is the only way the landlord can avoid bankruptcy for example).

I hated renting - constantly moving, constantly rising rents, bad properties. Nowadays we have far fewer bad properties and rents that seem to be broadly stable (even falling). The only problem with renting is the possibility that you have to move every 6 months. That can be put right, and then to me the only issue with 'high' house prices is that some people ho were unlucky enough not to buy at the beginning of this cycle will have to wait a bit longer if they want to buy at a good price.

FF

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jujst dropped my son off, back now....

I said earlier, this is the bit I disagree with, the other bits you mentioned on your last post have nothing to do with what I commented on.

your last post

"Please be blunt.

Why must you own a house?

Why must you only consider one area?

If you consider the prices too high, why must the seller amend this to suit your limited means? This is not an insult, every single person has limited means for house purchase, have you ever heard of living within your means. If you don't earn enough to buy the type of house you want then earn more or lower your sights or be patient, check out recent house price history.

You can have a TV, it needn't be a plasma.

You can have a mobile phone, it needn't be WAP enabled.

You can have an all inclusive holiday, it needn't be in Anitgua.

You can have a car, it needn't be a BMW.

You can have a house........"

all very valid points, but nothing to do with what I commented on ? have I missed something ? did I misinterpret your posting ?

"Having an affordable HOME to live in is within reach of most people in this country, whether it is bought or rented".

This bit?

Sorry the whole post was shown, although this was highlighted, doh!.

OK, given that any reasonable rental can be subsidised by rent rebate allowances & commuting is inconvenient but acceptable, I still stand by this.

Why is it so disagreeable.

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Guest grumpy-old-man

edited this post as you have replied whilst I was typing......

give me a minute.

Edited by grumpy-old-man

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.... if you're happy to stay in your first property for 10 years.

Point is, the housing 'ladder' has been broken for a while and is shortly to become a housing slide.

There are many instances where people could have bought, didn't & regret it, or did buy & regret it.

These chances will re-occur, as have chances to invest in other commodities.

What I have a problem understanding is that some feel that the natural market should be engineered to suit themselves, selfishly ignoring those on really low wages that will never figure in their equation & selfishly ignoring those that have previously made sacrifices & taken risks to be in a situation to have these ingrates demand that they devalue their assets they have worked all their lives to attain for no other reason than for the chosen few to be in the same financial position without the sacrifices.

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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