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Sledgehead

Panorama Now: Right Time For A Baby

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Not enough baby making to replace the population etc. Check out the new demographics on Panorama, this evening - now

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Not enough baby making to replace the population etc. Check out the new demographics on Panorama, this evening - now

Well i've done my bit.. our little one was born last week, i'm 26, mrs is 24. Personally I feel that's a little old to have a baby, 18-22 i would of thought was the norm of yesteryear! Now it's 29-33+ seems to be about the time nowadays. I wonder how this will impact my little one when he is 20 or so, are we going to see an opposite to the baby boom, - dare i say a baby bust... hmm that reminds me, what's happening with house prices these days :D

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I find it difficult to comprehend why some people will put their careers before having a family.

I find it difficult to comprehend why some people want to stay on the work treadmill instead of having the joy of raising their own child

It's not a career, it's a f**king job, a means to an end. Why do people take their work so seriously? :angry:

When the economy tanks, they'll see how loyal their boss is to them when they're booted out their beloved 'career' and it'll be too late to have a family by then, but at least they'll have their 42" plasma and brand new sports car that they strived for to impress the jones's to entertain them.

Some people are so materialistic

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I find it difficult to comprehend why some people will put their careers before having a family.

I find it difficult to comprehend why some people want to stay on the work treadmill instead of having the joy of raising their own child

It's not a career, it's a f**king job, a means to an end. Why do people take their work so seriously? :angry:

When the economy tanks, they'll see how loyal their boss is to them when they're booted out their beloved 'career' and it'll be too late to have a family by then, but at least they'll have their 42" plasma and brand new sports car that they strived for to impress the jones's to entertain them.

Some people are so materialistic

why is it so great having kids anyway?..I speak as a would be ftb.......

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I find it difficult to comprehend why some people will put their careers before having a family.

I find it difficult to comprehend why some people want to stay on the work treadmill instead of having the joy of raising their own child

It's not a career, it's a f**king job, a means to an end. Why do people take their work so seriously? :angry:

When the economy tanks, they'll see how loyal their boss is to them when they're booted out their beloved 'career' and it'll be too late to have a family by then, but at least they'll have their 42" plasma and brand new sports car that they strived for to impress the jones's to entertain them.

Some people are so materialistic

Life doesn't offer much, outside of a few things that aren't for sale.

Some people just don't get that

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why is it so great having kids anyway?..I speak as a would be ftb.......

It is wonderful waking up in the morning to see a baby smilling and laughing. You see your face on a little, helpless human being. You make your parents very, very happy with a grandchild. You stop being a selfish *** who spends most of the time thinking about yourself, to someone who rarely thinks about yourself and who is mostly thinking about another human being.

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If you need to ask that question, you're not ready.

I am the 10th child in my family - I am 40 now....I have about 15+ nephews and nieces plus - I love them to bits...and I think (hope) that they love me too....Yipeeeeee..I don't think I need you to tell me about how I should feel about having children....with all respect

It is wonderful waking up in the morning to see a baby smilling and laughing. You see your face on a little, helpless human being. You make your parents very, very happy with a grandchild. You stop being a selfish *** who spends most of the time thinking about yourself, to someone who rarely thinks about yourself and who is mostly thinking about another human being.

I apologise for being a selfish ******* in your eyes.......as a non parent...I do my utmost to make sure that my brothers and sister's children...ie my nephews and nieces are not neglected..... Please do not think that being a NON parent is tantamount to being a selfish twit

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Not enough baby making to replace the population etc.

What's the problem with a falling birth rate ? The EU population is rising nicely thank-you, thanks to net immigration and there is no need whatsoever to up the birth rates (even though they have been increasing very recently in the UK). Global population rises by the second. In any case, what is actually wrong with a shrinking population ? There are plently of economic and environmental reasons to decrease the population.

Edited by ciderpunk

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why is it so great having kids anyway?..I speak as a would be ftb.......

Exactly. And how the hell is it selfish to lead a life of your own choosing? Are you people bitter that perhaps non-parents feel a sense of more freedom and enjoyment? Otherwise, please justify your accusations of selfishness rather than spouting rubbish.

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I find it difficult to comprehend why some people will put their careers before having a family.

I find it difficult to comprehend why some people want to stay on the work treadmill instead of having the joy of raising their own child

It's not a career, it's a f**king job, a means to an end. Why do people take their work so seriously? :angry:

When the economy tanks, they'll see how loyal their boss is to them when they're booted out their beloved 'career' and it'll be too late to have a family by then, but at least they'll have their 42" plasma and brand new sports car that they strived for to impress the jones's to entertain them.

Some people are so materialistic

Because of our comedy legal system, it's actually quite easy for a father to bail on his kids and not have to pay maintanace. I would not advise any woman to completely give up her career and rely on their partner as it could put them in a very poor position if things go wrong.

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why is it so great having kids anyway?..I speak as a would be ftb.......

Dude congratulations, that is 'the emperor has no clothes' question. Respect to you for asking it. Prepare for attempts to shoot you down in flames as this post will probably be as a view many refuse to entertain.

Caught the end of this doc & was not very impressed as it did not seem to go into the issues in much detail.

I regard the issue of people having fewer kids as great news for a planet of limited resources in crisis. Billions of hungry mouths and car users increasing daily with resources

wars of oil & water breaking out all over the place is not an environment to add more people into, but reduce them.

Its probably the lesser of 2 evils in terms of resource use, that people consume more as non-breeders than produce more kids who consume more long term. The demonisation of people as selfish for not breeding & 'choosing a career' is common & misplaced IMO as the balance of the selfishness of bringing more kids into a world running out of resources in not discussed to balance it.

The perpetuation of the 'selfish gene' or selfish religious meme is hardly discussed, when I first came to this forum, a fellow poster pointed out that those who did not breed would be made extinct along with their memes to cut down the population relative to breeders wanting to increase it. This seems true on the surface and a seed to human destruction.

IMO, Social conditioning & the pressure of 'the genes' make folks have kids, often under the illusion of free choice, and also often without regards to the financial ability to have them.

Non-breeders or singles are often reduced to the fringes of society as the production of more good little worker drones for corp employment or larger families like Catholics are encoraged to spread religous memes.

Surely there should be some increased positive examination of these issues needs to occur, having watched a documentary of micro-societies like Easter Island where populations expand & resources run out it ends up with war and cannibalism.

'How much is enough' is as question capitalist societies hate to ask themselves in regards to wealth, it appears it be true in terms of population growth as well. :(

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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I find it difficult to comprehend why some people will put their careers before having a family.

I find it difficult to comprehend why some people want to stay on the work treadmill instead of having the joy of raising their own child

It's not a career, it's a f**king job, a means to an end. Why do people take their work so seriously? :angry:

When the economy tanks, they'll see how loyal their boss is to them when they're booted out their beloved 'career' and it'll be too late to have a family by then, but at least they'll have their 42" plasma and brand new sports car that they strived for to impress the jones's to entertain them.

Some people are so materialistic

Because they can't f***ing buy a sodding house or afford a family, so their career is the only way they have of somehow, someday, earning enough money to be able to afford to have a baby and a house?

Some people are so f***ing insensitive. I would have a baby like a bloody SHOT if I could afford the financial security of a home and enough money EITHER to pay for childcare OR to stay at home. I can't even afford a house NOW - even if I could I would need ALL of my salary and my husband's available to pay the f***ing mortgage (or even the rent) at these prices - so where does childcare come from?

What do YOU recommend I should do - bring it up in the woods??? For F***'s sake.

Edited by Zaranna

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Because of our comedy legal system, it's actually quite easy for a father to bail on his kids and not have to pay maintanace. I would not advise any woman to completely give up her career and rely on their partner as it could put them in a very poor position if things go wrong.

Yes - make sure you work full time, and put your children into nursery all day. I look after my kids full time. I think it's one of the most important things you can do. It is well worth it for my children's sake. Life's too short to be paranoid.

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Because the can't f***ing buy a sodding house or afford a family, so their career is the only way the have of somehow, someday, earning enough money to be able to afford to have a baby?

Some people are so f***ing insensitive. I would have a baby like a bloody SHOT if I could afford the financial security of a home and enough money EITHER to pay for childcare OR to stay at home. I can't even afford a house NOW - even if I could I would need ALL of my salary and my husband's available to pay the f***ing mortgage (or even the rent) at these prices - so where does childcare come from?

What do YOU recommend I should do - bring it up in the woods??? For F***'s sake.

Did I apply my original post to you? No it didn't. It was based upon the career woman on the programme. She implied that she couldn't choose between giving up her career to start a family, or not. Fortunately she had the choice of giving up her income to raise a family; there was not issue of it being unaffordable, unlike with yourself.

I put starting a family higher up the list of 'life's priorities' than purchasing a house or my career; both of which are a materialistic acquisition. You can raise a family in rented, plenty of other people in the UK do, and it is much more rewarding than being a home owner, but from your post this clearly doesn't apply to you, as did my first post.

Whilst I fully sympathise with you (as I am in the same situation), my point was she could afford to change her circumstances to raise a family, which was on her mind.

Top tip, Zaranna- if you want to get on your high horse and criticise my opinion then read the post more carefully and try to get your facts right first. I try to reach a judgement when in full possession of all the facts - you'd do yourself a great service if you tried to do the same.

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Did I apply my original post to you? No it didn't. It was based upon the career woman on the programme. She implied that she couldn't choose between giving up her career to start a family, or not. Fortunately she had the choice of giving up her income to raise a family; there was not issue of it being unaffordable, unlike with yourself.

I put starting a family higher up the list of 'life's priorities' than purchasing a house or my career; both of which are a materialistic acquisition. You can raise a family in rented, plenty of other people in the UK do, and it is much more rewarding than being a home owner, but from your post this clearly doesn't apply to you, as did my first post.

Whilst I fully sympathise with you (as I am in the same situation), my point was she could afford to change her circumstances to raise a family, which was on her mind.

Top tip, Zaranna- if you want to get on your high horse and criticise my opinion then read the post more carefully and try to get your facts right first. I try to reach a judgement when in full possession of all the facts - you'd do yourself a great service if you tried to do the same.

Well, then maybe you SHOULD have said "Those who can afford to have a family but don't want to do so" -- instead of generally saying "Some people are so materialistic".

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To quote our Scouse bretheren "Calm down, calm down!!"

This is obviously quite a sensitive issue for lots of us, wannabe parents, existing parents, happy single people, etc. What this thread needs is a little more love, so come one everyone, stick on that Beatles track, the one that goes "Love, love , love...", kick off those shoes, take the weight off and relax on a huge bean bag, maybe light a joss stick or two. In with love, out with anger.

Try and be a little more tolerant and understand that we all lead very different lives which can make having kids easier for some than others, and if some folks don't want any...then what on earth is wrong with that?

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Well, then maybe you SHOULD have said "Those who can afford to have a family but don't want to do so" -- instead of generally saying "Some people are so materialistic".

Did you see the programme?

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:(

My friend has just been over for a visit and her second child is due in two weeks time. her first is 5. She knows that she will have to go back to work after 6 months because her mortgage (3 bed-house) is over £1000 per month.

Husband graduated with a first in Computer Science and is earning good money, but not that good.

My husband also graduated witha first, he is a Computer Engineer, but we can't even afford to buy a house.

My friend bought in about 2001, before the property market went totally mad, and their house had doubled in value when they sold it last year, but it obviously didn't do them any good!

It isn't easy for any of us any more.

We are happy. We are renting a 3 bed house now and we have a garden and it is in a much nicer area than we would be able to afford to buy in.

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What's the problem with a falling birth rate ? The EU population is rising nicely thank-you, thanks to net immigration and there is no need whatsoever to up the birth rates (even though they have been increasing very recently in the UK). Global population rises by the second. In any case, what is actually wrong with a shrinking population ? There are plently of economic and environmental reasons to decrease the population.

is the EU population growing? i thought we were facing a demographic timebomb as countries like Italy have a falling birthrate.therefore there are going to be more pensioners with fewer workers.

immigrants grow old too ! :blink: so immigration is not a viable option ! :blink:

Edited by rogerthelodger

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is the EU population growing? i thought we were facing a demographic timebomb as countries like Italy have a falling birthrate.therefore there are going to be more pensioners with fewer workers.

immigrants grow old too ! :blink: so immigration is not a viable option ! :blink:

There's certainly some challenging predicaments on the horizon. There seems an element of selfishness fron those who want more kids born to be able pay taxes for their care in older age. Is this ok if they paid for the current older generations care with their taxes ?

Some of the unlimited pro-child birth views remind me of a Bill Hicks performance:

'"But where did this veneration of childbirth come from? I missed that meeting. Childbirth is wonderful, childbirth is a miracle. Wrong. It's no more a miracle than eating food and a turd coming out your ass. You know what a miracle is? A miracle is raising a kid that doesn't talk at a movie theater.

"If it were a miracle then not every nine months any yin yang in the world could drop a litter of these mewling cabbages on the planet. And in case you have not checked the single mom statistics lately the miracle is spreading like wildfire. Hallujeh.

"Trailer parks all over America filling up with little miracles. Thunk, thunk, thunk. Look at all my little miracles. Filling up my trailer like a sardine can. Look at them.

"You know what would be a little miracle? If I could remember your daddy's name. I guess I'll have to call you Trucker Jr. That's all I remember about your daddy was his fuzzy little pot belly riding on top of me shooting his caffeine ridden semen into my belly to produce my little water head miracle baby child. Thunk. There's your brother, Pizza Delivery Boy Jr., thunk here's your other brother, thunk here's your other brother, Will Work For Food Jr."

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An major factor as to why I won't be having kids soon is that my mum would beat me round the head if I dared make her a grandmother before she was 60! So 10 years at least before I reproduce!

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Interestingly, there was no mention of the changing nature of relationships. In the olden days, girl would meet nice boy, get married, have kids and stick with the family forever, regardless of how happy they were - or get a divorce if we are looking at the boomers generation.

These days, more people cohabit and relationship cycles are getting shorter whereby you share some substantial life experiences BEFORE you entertain having a kid. This shared experience means that a relationship is likely to naturally comes to its term before any children are born from it. Then repeat.

Ironically, some of the most selfless people I know are kid-less boomers (some out of choice, some not). Why should one's ultimate purpose necessarily consist of bringing up kids? There are plenty of other purposes for which one's talents and energy can be used to a good end. :)

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  • 338 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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