Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Recommended Posts

The Y Generation regret supporting New Labour,who have in such a short space of time decimated living standards for the common people whilst sunning themselves on Croquet Lawns and sipping Champagne at Cliff Richards overseas tax havens.

We're not having fun in generation Y, we're struggling

Far from living a gilded life, says Peter Hall, twentysomethings are crushed by debt

The twentysomethings you see every day juggling their iPods, BlackBerries and digital-camera phones might seem to have it all. On the face of it Generation Y, those aged between 18 and 27, enjoy a good education, have vast job opportunities and spend their evenings at bars and restaurants. They are the feckless generation, caught up in the here and now and blissfully ignorant of the realities of adulthood.

On these pages last week Tom Cox, a typical Generation X-er, bemoaned his and other thirtysomethings’ plight, sandwiched between the baby boomers “speeding off on a Harley-Davidson and spending our inheritance” and the younger Generation Y, who are “loud, savvy and always having fun”.

Almost as soon as the paper appeared my phone started ringing with friends who had taken offence at Cox’s portrayal of Generation Y.

They, like me, work incredibly hard for little money and feel they are unfairly portrayed in the media, which are more interested in the culture of binge drinking. We Y-ers are lucky in many respects but being twentysomething today is not a bed of roses; the mountain we must climb is alarmingly steep.

A good friend, Cate Robertson, 24, graduated from Durham University in 2003 with a £10,000 student loan and a £2,000 overdraft. She moved to London because she dreamt of working in publishing and had to get a credit card because she couldn’t survive on her salary alone. “At first I lived at friends’ houses, but eventually I had to start renting and I didn’t have enough for a deposit, so I put that on a credit card,” she says.

Cate’s story is a familiar one. NatWest reported that graduates are, on average, £12,640 in debt through loans, overdrafts and credit cards, which will take 15 years to repay. More than 20% of those aged 18-30 run out of money before their next pay packet, according to the Financial Services Authority. Yet Generation Y are warned they need to save for the future. Prudential, the financial services group, recommends that young people begin saving by the time they reach 26, otherwise they will spend the rest of their lives trying to catch up.

To Cate the idea of putting money aside towards a home or a pension is risible. “I can’t see the day when I can afford a house,” she says. “I’m trying to pay off my credit card, but even then I still have £6,000 of debt, plus money I owe my parents and my overdraft, which is now charging interest. There is a pension scheme at work but I’ve chosen not to join it. I need every penny.”

Last summer the think tank Reform dubbed today’s young the iPod generation: insecure, pressured, overtaxed and debt-ridden. It highlighted house prices and the need to pay more tax to meet the demands of an ageing population as the main problems.

Professor Nick Bosanquet, an author of the report, says the picture has got worse since the pension bill, which ignored young people’s precarious finances. “The government has raised the amount young people have to save for their own pension and the amount they also have to save to pay for the ageing population,” he says.

Currently there are 100 workers supporting every 27 pensioners aged over 65 but by 2060 this figure is set to increase to 48 pensioners per 100 workers.

This bleak picture is taking hold of a once gilded generation; they are no longer able to live like their parents did in their twenties. “Sometimes it’s easy to forget I’m just 25 years old. The burden is immense,” says Mark Lewis, who supplements the money he earns through his day job in a gallery by working as a waiter in the evening. “I’m trying to live for today but I have to be so disciplined with my money.”

A recent survey of 2,200 undergraduates revealed 15% of students drink only about two pints of beer a week. Another report found that 91% of those aged between 17 and 24 don’t go out all night on a Friday because they hate wasting their weekends being tired and hungover.

Manchester graduate Claire Harding, 24, says her generation cannot afford to party till dawn. “Sure, at university you go out a lot. But nowadays I’m more likely to share a bottle of wine with a friend. We don’t get wrecked because we can’t afford to.”

David Willetts, Tory education spokesman, says the crisis in university finance, the pension crisis and the pressures of the housing market are high up the policy agenda but they are seen as three separate problems. “If you look at it socially they are the same problem,” he says. “It is unique in our history, having these three burdens together. Generation Y have a much rougher deal than their predecessors.”

Willetts argues that we are experiencing a clash of ages. “A generation ago, Tony Benn called for a fundamental shift of power and wealth to working people. What we now see is a fundamental shift in power and wealth to the older generation.”

Baby boomers (those over 50) own four-fifths of the nation’s wealth, with pensioners alone having assets of £500 billion. Most people’s parents are probably living in a house with a large amount of equity because of its rise in value over the years. Whereas the number of first-time buyers has fallen by a third since 1999, as the cost of the average house has increased from £96,000 to £184,000.

All this points to one thing: we are living in a topsy-turvy world. The baby boomers can afford to make themselves feel young, while Generation Y are getting old before their time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

grrrr - boomers.

still its all going wrong.

my ongoing mates mums anecdotal is a prime example.

bought 97 for around 45k. tried to sell in 2005 for £140k. no savings. no pension. no self effort. then rushed out in greed and snapped up a porta-residental-site home with a 60k bridging loan. no viewings. dropped price to £120k. got an offer. after a few weeks buyer pulled out.

now they are being squeezed by the new loan and flapping.

its a cracker. the best quote was a year ago when i suggested she lower the price to sell. "oh im not giving it away".

she was the best ever salavating greedy boomer and its all going horribly wrong....

in slow motion.

car crash anecdotal.

they even decided to buy some smelly used kitchen appliences to 'attract the new ftb type buyer..?? yeah thanks. like the new buyer couldnt choose a second hand fridge for themselves. house is pretty stinky. horrible in fact. greasy. badly decorated. ex council in a low paid town. its all so priceless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Y Generation regret supporting New Labour,who have in such a short space of time decimated living standards for the common people whilst sunning themselves on Croquet Lawns and sipping Champagne at Cliff Richards overseas tax havens.

We're not having fun in generation Y, we're struggling

Far from living a gilded life, says Peter Hall, twentysomethings are crushed by debt

The twentysomethings you see every day juggling their iPods, BlackBerries and digital-camera phones might seem to have it all. On the face of it Generation Y, those aged between 18 and 27, enjoy a good education, have vast job opportunities and spend their evenings at bars and restaurants. They are the feckless generation, caught up in the here and now and blissfully ignorant of the realities of adulthood.

On these pages last week Tom Cox, a typical Generation X-er, bemoaned his and other thirtysomethings’ plight, sandwiched between the baby boomers “speeding off on a Harley-Davidson and spending our inheritance” and the younger Generation Y, who are “loud, savvy and always having fun”.

Almost as soon as the paper appeared my phone started ringing with friends who had taken offence at Cox’s portrayal of Generation Y.

They, like me, work incredibly hard for little money and feel they are unfairly portrayed in the media, which are more interested in the culture of binge drinking. We Y-ers are lucky in many respects but being twentysomething today is not a bed of roses; the mountain we must climb is alarmingly steep.

A good friend, Cate Robertson, 24, graduated from Durham University in 2003 with a £10,000 student loan and a £2,000 overdraft. She moved to London because she dreamt of working in publishing and had to get a credit card because she couldn’t survive on her salary alone. “At first I lived at friends’ houses, but eventually I had to start renting and I didn’t have enough for a deposit, so I put that on a credit card,” she says.

Cate’s story is a familiar one. NatWest reported that graduates are, on average, £12,640 in debt through loans, overdrafts and credit cards, which will take 15 years to repay. More than 20% of those aged 18-30 run out of money before their next pay packet, according to the Financial Services Authority. Yet Generation Y are warned they need to save for the future. Prudential, the financial services group, recommends that young people begin saving by the time they reach 26, otherwise they will spend the rest of their lives trying to catch up.

To Cate the idea of putting money aside towards a home or a pension is risible. “I can’t see the day when I can afford a house,” she says. “I’m trying to pay off my credit card, but even then I still have £6,000 of debt, plus money I owe my parents and my overdraft, which is now charging interest. There is a pension scheme at work but I’ve chosen not to join it. I need every penny.”

Last summer the think tank Reform dubbed today’s young the iPod generation: insecure, pressured, overtaxed and debt-ridden. It highlighted house prices and the need to pay more tax to meet the demands of an ageing population as the main problems.

Professor Nick Bosanquet, an author of the report, says the picture has got worse since the pension bill, which ignored young people’s precarious finances. “The government has raised the amount young people have to save for their own pension and the amount they also have to save to pay for the ageing population,” he says.

Currently there are 100 workers supporting every 27 pensioners aged over 65 but by 2060 this figure is set to increase to 48 pensioners per 100 workers.

This bleak picture is taking hold of a once gilded generation; they are no longer able to live like their parents did in their twenties. “Sometimes it’s easy to forget I’m just 25 years old. The burden is immense,” says Mark Lewis, who supplements the money he earns through his day job in a gallery by working as a waiter in the evening. “I’m trying to live for today but I have to be so disciplined with my money.”

A recent survey of 2,200 undergraduates revealed 15% of students drink only about two pints of beer a week. Another report found that 91% of those aged between 17 and 24 don’t go out all night on a Friday because they hate wasting their weekends being tired and hungover.

Manchester graduate Claire Harding, 24, says her generation cannot afford to party till dawn. “Sure, at university you go out a lot. But nowadays I’m more likely to share a bottle of wine with a friend. We don’t get wrecked because we can’t afford to.”

David Willetts, Tory education spokesman, says the crisis in university finance, the pension crisis and the pressures of the housing market are high up the policy agenda but they are seen as three separate problems. “If you look at it socially they are the same problem,” he says. “It is unique in our history, having these three burdens together. Generation Y have a much rougher deal than their predecessors.”

Willetts argues that we are experiencing a clash of ages. “A generation ago, Tony Benn called for a fundamental shift of power and wealth to working people. What we now see is a fundamental shift in power and wealth to the older generation.”

Baby boomers (those over 50) own four-fifths of the nation’s wealth, with pensioners alone having assets of £500 billion. Most people’s parents are probably living in a house with a large amount of equity because of its rise in value over the years. Whereas the number of first-time buyers has fallen by a third since 1999, as the cost of the average house has increased from £96,000 to £184,000.

All this points to one thing: we are living in a topsy-turvy world. The baby boomers can afford to make themselves feel young, while Generation Y are getting old before their time.

Hah hah hah - Generation Y is the generation where the marketing men finally perfect their pitch after all those years of practice. Ipods, Gap Years, flashy mobiles, Credit Cards, H&M 'disposable' cothing, student debt. It is a generation driven purely by consumerism. I am rather glad to be Generation X :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hah hah hah - Generation Y is the generation where the marketing men finally perfect their pitch after all those years of practice. Ipods, Gap Years, flashy mobiles, Credit Cards, H&M 'disposable' cothing, student debt. It is a generation driven purely by consumerism. I am rather glad to be Generation X :)

oh yes...all us 20 somethings are idiotic, greedy. consumerist plonkers who have huge debts...blah blah blah...

the same goes for labelling all baby boomers as being rich and selfish...

personally i'm 29, have almost paid of my student debt(accumulated in 2000-2002), have no outstanding credit card bills, DO NOT have an ipod and my last mobile phone lasted 5 years....

AND I STILL CAN'T AFFORD TO GET ON THE PROPERTY LADDER (well i could if i wanted a box in a shite area, but i refuse!)

my parents who are both 58-59 years old are not rich or wealthy and can barely afford 1 foreign holiday a year and bought their last car from ebay(not a great idea in my opinion, but hey!)

stop lumbering whole groups of people in one basket.. that always really annoys me

Edited by Rachel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh yes...all us 20 somethings are idiotic, greedy. consumerist plonkers who have huge debts...blah blah blah...

the same goes for labelling all baby boomers as being rich and selfish...

personally i'm 29, have almost paid of my student debt(accumulated in 2000-2002), have no outstanding credit card bills, DO NOT have an ipod and my last mobile phone lasted 5 years....

AND I STILL CAN'T AFFORD TO GET ON THE PROPERTY LADDER (well i could if i wanted a box in a shite area, but i refuse!)

I'm a Gen X'er, and I honestly thought it was difficult for us at the time (well, up north under Thatcher it wasn't always easy with mass unemployment). But we also had so many advantages and just took them for granted. I had a student grant, not a loan - I was one of the very last lot of students to benefit from that. No one had credit cards when I was a student, or even in our first professional jobs for that matter. I ended my first degree with a £500 overdraft - a bit under (edit: oops put over there) a months wages for a graduate job. It's much harder now. I shudder when I think of people starting work with over £10K of debt, no prospect of ever buying a reasonable place to live, and a pension system in crisis and not enough cash left over to make a difference anyway.

Well, OK the last two affect me too - I simply haven't been very clever with my money over the years, but I started in a better situation!

stop lumbering whole groups of people in one basket.. that always really annoys me

Yeah, it annoys me too.

Listen up all you people who do that - you're all the same :D

Edited by AFineMess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Generation Y'ers don't realise how badly they are being screwed by the older generations.

They would rather waste their time protesting about the Iraq war or environmentalism than think about their own situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Generation Y'ers don't realise how badly they are being screwed by the older generations.

They would rather waste their time protesting about the Iraq war or environmentalism than think about their own situations.

this reminds me of all the moaning over the rise in retirement ages...except we forget most of us didn't start work till between 18- 22 and the baby boomers mostly started working at 15-16 years old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this reminds me of all the moaning over the rise in retirement ages...except we forget most of us didn't start work till between 18- 22 and the baby boomers mostly started working at 15-16 years old.

Don't worry, we'll make up for that alright, mainly paying the pensions for the generation before who started working at 15. Saddled with Student debt, priced out of the housing market, there will likely be no pension for us by the time we retire and we'll be paying for those before us. It's a pretty raw deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't go with any of the generation nonsense, it's all media and ad hype, sure there may be people who you can fit into a band, but there are loads more that you can't, this BS stared in the 80's I seem to remember that nearly every advertisement portrayed people living in loft apartments and working in media, I don't know what today's are portraying as I tend to turn off when there on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think it has anything to do with when you were born or what letter of the alphabet is used to generalise.

Its all about economic cycles. Generation Y happens to be at their early buying years in the midst of a "Miracle Economy." Generation BB happened to be in the driving seat when Japan started flooding the world with sheep (Freudian slip for cheap credit) credit.

When it all unwinds Generation Y in waiting to buy should do nicely. Xers and BB who are overleveraged will feel the pain.

The down years from this last bubble may extend a little longer than the Great Crash (1989-96) allowing at least 5 years to get onto the ladder as prices crash and languish at the bottom for awhile. Then gerantion Z will blame the X and Y generation for the next HPI Boom-Bust cycle.

And the beat goes on, and on and on and on.......................

As the writer of Ecclesiastes put it: ain't nuffink noo under the sun.

Edited by Realistbear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I think it's a fair call - we do get stiffed. But It's our own fault (collectively, not indiviudally). We don't vote at the elections becasue we say none of the parties represent us, so the parties don't bother trying - hence, policies become directed towards the benefit of the highly politicised generation X and Baby Boomers. For example, if Generation Y's all voted, do you think the pensions policy announcement would have been different?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Generation Y'ers don't realise how badly they are being screwed by the older generations.

They would rather waste their time protesting about the Iraq war or environmentalism than think about their own situations.

Of course, house prices are so much more important than either of those two current affairs.

Darwin was right. :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Y Generation regret supporting New Labour,who have in such a short space of time decimated living standards for the common people whilst sunning themselves on Croquet Lawns and sipping Champagne at Cliff Richards overseas tax havens.

We're not having fun in generation Y, we're struggling

Far from living a gilded life, says Peter Hall, twentysomethings are crushed by debt

The twentysomethings you see every day juggling their iPods, BlackBerries and digital-camera phones might seem to have it all. On the face of it Generation Y, those aged between 18 and 27, enjoy a good education, have vast job opportunities and spend their evenings at bars and restaurants. They are the feckless generation, caught up in the here and now and blissfully ignorant of the realities of adulthood.

On these pages last week Tom Cox, a typical Generation X-er, bemoaned his and other thirtysomethings’ plight, sandwiched between the baby boomers “speeding off on a Harley-Davidson and spending our inheritance” and the younger Generation Y, who are “loud, savvy and always having fun”.

Almost as soon as the paper appeared my phone started ringing with friends who had taken offence at Cox’s portrayal of Generation Y.

They, like me, work incredibly hard for little money and feel they are unfairly portrayed in the media, which are more interested in the culture of binge drinking. We Y-ers are lucky in many respects but being twentysomething today is not a bed of roses; the mountain we must climb is alarmingly steep.

A good friend, Cate Robertson, 24, graduated from Durham University in 2003 with a £10,000 student loan and a £2,000 overdraft. She moved to London because she dreamt of working in publishing and had to get a credit card because she couldn’t survive on her salary alone. “At first I lived at friends’ houses, but eventually I had to start renting and I didn’t have enough for a deposit, so I put that on a credit card,” she says.

Cate’s story is a familiar one. NatWest reported that graduates are, on average, £12,640 in debt through loans, overdrafts and credit cards, which will take 15 years to repay. More than 20% of those aged 18-30 run out of money before their next pay packet, according to the Financial Services Authority. Yet Generation Y are warned they need to save for the future. Prudential, the financial services group, recommends that young people begin saving by the time they reach 26, otherwise they will spend the rest of their lives trying to catch up.

To Cate the idea of putting money aside towards a home or a pension is risible. “I can’t see the day when I can afford a house,” she says. “I’m trying to pay off my credit card, but even then I still have £6,000 of debt, plus money I owe my parents and my overdraft, which is now charging interest. There is a pension scheme at work but I’ve chosen not to join it. I need every penny.”

Last summer the think tank Reform dubbed today’s young the iPod generation: insecure, pressured, overtaxed and debt-ridden. It highlighted house prices and the need to pay more tax to meet the demands of an ageing population as the main problems.

Professor Nick Bosanquet, an author of the report, says the picture has got worse since the pension bill, which ignored young people’s precarious finances. “The government has raised the amount young people have to save for their own pension and the amount they also have to save to pay for the ageing population,” he says.

Currently there are 100 workers supporting every 27 pensioners aged over 65 but by 2060 this figure is set to increase to 48 pensioners per 100 workers.

This bleak picture is taking hold of a once gilded generation; they are no longer able to live like their parents did in their twenties. “Sometimes it’s easy to forget I’m just 25 years old. The burden is immense,” says Mark Lewis, who supplements the money he earns through his day job in a gallery by working as a waiter in the evening. “I’m trying to live for today but I have to be so disciplined with my money.”

A recent survey of 2,200 undergraduates revealed 15% of students drink only about two pints of beer a week. Another report found that 91% of those aged between 17 and 24 don’t go out all night on a Friday because they hate wasting their weekends being tired and hungover.

Manchester graduate Claire Harding, 24, says her generation cannot afford to party till dawn. “Sure, at university you go out a lot. But nowadays I’m more likely to share a bottle of wine with a friend. We don’t get wrecked because we can’t afford to.”

David Willetts, Tory education spokesman, says the crisis in university finance, the pension crisis and the pressures of the housing market are high up the policy agenda but they are seen as three separate problems. “If you look at it socially they are the same problem,” he says. “It is unique in our history, having these three burdens together. Generation Y have a much rougher deal than their predecessors.”

Willetts argues that we are experiencing a clash of ages. “A generation ago, Tony Benn called for a fundamental shift of power and wealth to working people. What we now see is a fundamental shift in power and wealth to the older generation.”

Baby boomers (those over 50) own four-fifths of the nation’s wealth, with pensioners alone having assets of £500 billion. Most people’s parents are probably living in a house with a large amount of equity because of its rise in value over the years. Whereas the number of first-time buyers has fallen by a third since 1999, as the cost of the average house has increased from £96,000 to £184,000.

All this points to one thing: we are living in a topsy-turvy world. The baby boomers can afford to make themselves feel young, while Generation Y are getting old before their time.

Can I make an appeal to people on here please? When they post stuff like the above, can you please say who wrote this and where it appeared?

I've no idea if there are 1,2 or 3 people speaking in the above item, and I've no idea if it came from a student newspaper or a BNP newsletter or the Sunday Times.

I think the sentiment expressed is largely defeatist journo-trash but I need to know who said it so that I can put it in context.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it was in the Sunday Times News Review supplement, a few pages in.

Can someone post a link please? I can't find it online.

Edit - don't worry, I've found it.

Edited by brassfarthing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this reminds me of all the moaning over the rise in retirement ages...except we forget most of us didn't start work till between 18- 22 and the baby boomers mostly started working at 15-16 years old.

It isn't as simple as this. Yes, people in the past did normally start work at 15-16, but that doesn't mean they went straight in and worked like a good'un. Employers didn't expect to get much out of their young workers, they expected to have to train them - back in the days of apprenticeships, of starting as the office boy or girl and working your way up. Many of these people started out with good career prospects with money in their pockets and proper training schemes funded by their employers.

This is something people overlook when the claim is made that young people of today and the recent past are somehow "pampered" and "privileged" by going to university. In large measure this is a very effective scheme whereby employers have externalised their costs, by getting would-be employees to pay for their own training. In the old days yes, many would start work at 15-16, but then they'd spend 3 to 5 years being trained by their employer. Now they start at 21 with massive debts after many years of self-funded study (or study funded by their parents, as people in work aged 15-18, who are now doing A levels, would probably have paid some keep to their parents if they were living at home).

Then lots of employers have the sheer f*ck*ng gall to moan that their new employees are inadequately trained. Well if you're not happy, why not pay for it yourselves, instead of thinking you have a right to self-funded fully-trained employees as some sort of right?

In many firms their own trainees would climb the company ladder and retire at 60 with a full final-salary pension. Starting work at 15-16 also meant that many people could get married, buy a house and have kids in their early-mid 20s. Of course generalisations about the generations are iniquitous but there's a reason why people are tempted by generalisations - they usually have some foundation. In general terms this is the story of many of the boomer generation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My nan worked 16 hour days as a tweeny maid starting at 12 years old. One half day off a month.

My nan worked 16 hour days packing bombs for the allies and then straight after had to work another 16 hour shift packing bombs for the nazi's. I think she was Swiss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn't as simple as this. Yes, people in the past did normally start work at 15-16, but that doesn't mean they went straight in and worked like a good'un. Employers didn't expect to get much out of their young workers, they expected to have to train them - back in the days of apprenticeships, of starting as the office boy or girl and working your way up. Many of these people started out with good career prospects with money in their pockets and proper training schemes funded by their employers.

This is something people overlook when the claim is made that young people of today and the recent past are somehow "pampered" and "privileged" by going to university. In large measure this is a very effective scheme whereby employers have externalised their costs, by getting would-be employees to pay for their own training. In the old days yes, many would start work at 15-16, but then they'd spend 3 to 5 years being trained by their employer. Now they start at 21 with massive debts after many years of self-funded study (or study funded by their parents, as people in work aged 15-18, who are now doing A levels, would probably have paid some keep to their parents if they were living at home).

Then lots of employers have the sheer f*ck*ng gall to moan that their new employees are inadequately trained. Well if you're not happy, why not pay for it yourselves, instead of thinking you have a right to self-funded fully-trained employees as some sort of right?

In many firms their own trainees would climb the company ladder and retire at 60 with a full final-salary pension. Starting work at 15-16 also meant that many people could get married, buy a house and have kids in their early-mid 20s. Of course generalisations about the generations are iniquitous but there's a reason why people are tempted by generalisations - they usually have some foundation. In general terms this is the story of many of the boomer generation.

I've heard it all now.

I never thought I'd see the day when kids sit around and moan about "the old people of today".

FFS, some of you people need to get a reality check. Try talking to your grandparents about their idyllic working lives through the 1950s and 1960s.

I've read a lot of stuff on here that I disagree with, or that's amused me, but this is the first post that's actually angered me.

It's not that everything in it is factually incorrect (though much is), it's the total inability/reluctance to put these arbitrary observations into their historical contect, and to hazard a guess at the downsides of working life in previous generations, that irks me.

You're no better than old people who grumble about the young. You also remind me of those sneering militant Islamic youth you see interviewed on TV. Unemployed, yet unwilling to move outside their street in Bradford or Luton.

You're all the same. The world revolves around you and your problems. No one understands you; everyone is trying to do you down.

Stop worrying about other people and how much luckier they are than you. (I can tell you for nothing that the average 'boomer' in their 50s or 60s would be delighted to swap their lives with you to be 25 again, and to have all those opportunities that they never had.)

Take control of your life, make a plan, and make something happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn't as simple as this. Yes, people in the past did normally start work at 15-16, but that doesn't mean they went straight in and worked like a good'un. Employers didn't expect to get much out of their young workers, they expected to have to train them - back in the days of apprenticeships, of starting as the office boy or girl and working your way up. Many of these people started out with good career prospects with money in their pockets and proper training schemes funded by their employers.

This is something people overlook when the claim is made that young people of today and the recent past are somehow "pampered" and "privileged" by going to university. In large measure this is a very effective scheme whereby employers have externalised their costs, by getting would-be employees to pay for their own training. In the old days yes, many would start work at 15-16, but then they'd spend 3 to 5 years being trained by their employer. Now they start at 21 with massive debts after many years of self-funded study (or study funded by their parents, as people in work aged 15-18, who are now doing A levels, would probably have paid some keep to their parents if they were living at home).

Then lots of employers have the sheer f*ck*ng gall to moan that their new employees are inadequately trained. Well if you're not happy, why not pay for it yourselves, instead of thinking you have a right to self-funded fully-trained employees as some sort of right?

In many firms their own trainees would climb the company ladder and retire at 60 with a full final-salary pension. Starting work at 15-16 also meant that many people could get married, buy a house and have kids in their early-mid 20s. Of course generalisations about the generations are iniquitous but there's a reason why people are tempted by generalisations - they usually have some foundation. In general terms this is the story of many of the boomer generation.

Companies still invest in training for the graduates they employ. They would be pretty useless without it, in my experience.

I employ graduate electrical engineers, and there's no way they can start turning out productive work without considerable training, mentoring and supervising.

Edited by Casual Observer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my neighbours daughter and her boyfriend are a classic example of generation Y

Both 22, she works in bank (18k), he works in mobile phone shop (16k ish). They withdrew equity on their old house as soon as they could to fund a classic example of the consumerist lifestyle. 4 (yes 4!) holidays per year, mazda mx5 sports car, £2000 Bang Olfsun stereo (total waste of money as they rarely use it. just show the damn thing off), new pc (old one wouldn't play the £40 games he buys 1 of every week), new mobiles, yada yada. Credit card bills are now poking out of their @rses, and they recently moved into a 160k 4 bed house.

Looks like the party's over, and now they're splitting up

He wants the car,stereo, and pc, and says to her "so how many thousands am I getting out of the house when we sell". Unbelievable. It doesn't seem to have occured to him that you actually have to pay some of the mortgage off before you can take a slice when you sell. In fact they may have to sell all the toys to pay solicitors fees etc. She's said to him though that he can have the aforementioned 3 items if he signs the house over. So she's expecting to keep this 4 bed house with its enormous mortgage on her salary. Almost tempting to wait a year or 2 till she's really desperate and offer <100k for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course generalisations are unhelpful to some degree, but there is a definite trend here.

The fact we are in a gargantuan house price bubble does skew the picture to a huge degree, but there are underlying trends that are undeniable and unavoidable. I do get sceptical about apocalyptic scenarios, but it is really very simple: if there are only X babies born in 2007, there can only be X 21 year olds in 2028. More importantly, if there are only Y babies to semi-stable/literate families in 2007, then there can only be Y semi-competent 21 year-old adults in 2028.

I am 26 and will probably have a fairly decent pension actually. Why? Because by the time I retire the boomers will be dead. Well, most of them will be.

The boomers might try and vote decent pensions for themselves, but their attempts will be futile. Eventually the government and economy would collapse, along with the rest of Europe. If taxes get too high (I say "if", they're too high as it is) then the private sector will shrink (it is already), and eventually you'll have nasty inflation. Twenty million grannies and grandads, all with maybe 2 or 3 children, and maybe 4 or 5 grandchildren (think about that - my grandparents had 10 granchildren), are going to be demanding lavish public services in vain.

Housing markets correct in years. Demographics can take decades to sort out, and we haven't even woken up to the problem yet.

Companies still invest in training for the graduates they employ. They would be pretty useless without it, in my experience.

I employ graduate electrical engineers, and there's no way they can start turning out productive work without considerable training, mentoring and supervising.

Exactly. Nationalising education has been terrible. There should be tax breaks for employers who take on apprentices/trainees, or better still, just less hassle (e.g. no NI forms to do).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The_Oldie

Yes but we get the last laugh.... We get to choose their lovely nursing homes!!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason the "older" generation have more wealth is that we have spent many years working hard and saving, so that we can take care of ourselves in our old age without being a drain on the next generation. With a bit of luck and careful management of our funds, we will be able to leave our children an inheritance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard it all now.

I never thought I'd see the day when kids sit around and moan about "the old people of today".

FFS, some of you people need to get a reality check. Try talking to your grandparents about their idyllic working lives through the 1950s and 1960s.

I've read a lot of stuff on here that I disagree with, or that's amused me, but this is the first post that's actually angered me.

It's not that everything in it is factually incorrect (though much is), it's the total inability/reluctance to put these arbitrary observations into their historical contect, and to hazard a guess at the downsides of working life in previous generations, that irks me.

You're no better than old people who grumble about the young. You also remind me of those sneering militant Islamic youth you see interviewed on TV. Unemployed, yet unwilling to move outside their street in Bradford or Luton.

You're all the same. The world revolves around you and your problems. No one understands you; everyone is trying to do you down.

Stop worrying about other people and how much luckier they are than you. (I can tell you for nothing that the average 'boomer' in their 50s or 60s would be delighted to swap their lives with you to be 25 again, and to have all those opportunities that they never had.)

Take control of your life, make a plan, and make something happen.

Good post.

I bought my first house at 35 and it never occurred to me to complain about it.

I do sympathise with those who are priced out but not with those who seem to think they should have it all in their early twenties. The nostalgia/envy for the "good old days" indicates a very selective memory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure we've ever been inclined or able to do that, have we?!

Well people often argue on here that the boomers will essentially pull up the ladder and votefor which ever party gives them enough dosh. I don't agree with that, it just wouldn't happen.

Look how ignored the WWII generation are. An old friend died in January, he was a lovely old boy, fought in tanks for 4 years, saw his son for the first time when he returned from Greece. He was lucky, he had a sharp exit in his 80s, had a decent wife and a reasonable council bungalow. They spent hardly any cash, very spartan, so they could make do. I am not even sure we will be able to offer that kind of lifestyle to the next crop of retirees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.