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Guest muttley

University Lecturers Get Inflation Busting Rise

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University Pay Dispute Resolved

Will we see more industrial action from other sectors now that the populace realise that the inflation figures are fiction?

It only busts the official inflation figures. University Lecturers will continue to get poorer, like many others. Assuming that the 13.1% is a compounded figure, that's 4.19% per year. Does anyone claim that inflation is that or less?

Billy Shears

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aint they lucky

The agreement involves:

August 2006 - greater of 3% or £515

February 2007 - 1%

August 2007 - 3%

May 2008 - greater of 3% or £420

October 2008 - greater of 2.5% or RPI (at September 2008).

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Fat cat GPs and council employees should accept a pay cut so that University Lecturers can get a living wage.

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Fat cat GPs and council employees should accept a pay cut so that University Lecturers can get a living wage.

agree with that-- no one ever seems to look at the absolute amount different professions earn they only look at the % change. why is it that a GP doling out penicilin and anti depresents gets paid > double that of a (non clinical) professor who could be working on cutting edge medical research

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On the same day as this - Brown calls for public sector pay freeze

Another boost for your credibility Gordy.

Does anyone remember reading Orwell's Animal Farm in school?

Gordy reminds me of pig trying to make all the animals think they are better off, while at the same time making them work harder for less.

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brown372ready.jpg

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agree with that-- no one ever seems to look at the absolute amount different professions earn they only look at the % change. why is it that a GP doling out penicilin and anti depresents gets paid > double that of a (non clinical) professor who could be working on cutting edge medical research

Ok, kids. Time to explode a few myths:

The London Business School has 16 staff earning more than £200,000 — more than any other university — with one on more than £400,000. Last year it had two in this bracket.

St George’s Medical School has the second highest number of staff earning more than £200,000 — with 11. The principal earns £180,000

At Aston and London Metropolitan universities, the vice-chancellor earns about £90,000 more than the highest earners

At the University of the West of England no academic earns more than £100,000;the departing vice-chancellor earned £189,000 in 2004-05

Oxford and Cambridge Universities each have one academic earning more than the vice-chancellor

Where the Big Earners Work.

Of course, the professor of media studies at Napier University or whatever doesn't get paid much. But does anyone really think he should?

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It only busts the official inflation figures. University Lecturers will continue to get poorer, like many others. Assuming that the 13.1% is a compounded figure, that's 4.19% per year. Does anyone claim that inflation is that or less?

Billy Shears

Please forgive my probably cr*p math, but...................

It's certainly not inflation busting if it is a simple (not compounded) rise ie: 4.36% p.a.

Or just about 3% p.a assuming no move in tax allowance for lower rate earner.

Or just about 2.6% net p.a for a higher rate tax payer - again assuming no move in the tax allowance.

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agree with that-- no one ever seems to look at the absolute amount different professions earn they only look at the % change. why is it that a GP doling out penicilin and anti depresents gets paid > double that of a (non clinical) professor who could be working on cutting edge medical research

I agree

What people forget is that someone actually has to train all these doctors, nurses, social workers and teachers. They are trained by university lecturers who also do the cutting edge research that these professionals are supposed to apply once they are let lose on society.

Funny how the public can support the fire fighters going on strike (even is houses could burn down). They support ever increasing pay for doctors, nurses and teachers..even supporting teachers going on strike.

But, god forbid, little Tarquins graduation may be delayed and the 'nasty' lecturers are suddenly the enemy for daring to ask for a living wage after years of training and working their 'rses off.

Personally I hoped the unions would hold out for more.

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Smeel the Fear - very few staff will earn that sort of money.

I am privileged to work a fair bit with a professor at an "ancient" university.

He always has a number of projects on the go, he's not even in his 40s yet has written or edited at least 2 core textbooks in my area, and a stream of widely cited papers in high-ranking journals. He is probably a "genius". I simply know no one else brighter and who can produce such high-calibre output. His impact on my field is already huge, and will grow as time progresses.

He will be on about 40-45K, less than a primary school headteacher. Incredibly he only earns about 14-18K more than I do, with considerably fewer papers, books and much less intellect!

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I thought lecturers did it for the love of the subject, and not for the money :o

Of course they do it for the love of the subject - have you seen the wages? They are not doing it for money but I think after seven years of study and years of hard work a person is entitled to a wage that lifts them off tax credits at least.

edit - I thought doctors also saw their work as a vocation in life but I have never met a poor consultant.

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Smeel the Fear - very few staff will earn that sort of money.

I am privileged to work a fair bit with a professor at an "ancient" university.

He always has a number of projects on the go, he's not even in his 40s yet has written or edited at least 2 core textbooks in my area, and a stream of widely cited papers in high-ranking journals. He is probably a "genius". I simply know no one else brighter and who can produce such high-calibre output. His impact on my field is already huge, and will grow as time progresses.

He will be on about 40-45K, less than a primary school headteacher. Incredibly he only earns about 14-18K more than I do, with considerably fewer papers, books and much less intellect!

I would not deny that there are many fabulous minds at work in our universities - I have been taught by a few people who I'm sure are on the list I linked to. The high pay goes to those who can earn huge sums elsewhere IMO. They have to be tempted into academia by some parity of pay (or at least a comfortable salary).

BTW. Counting up the numbers from that list, there are 1635 academics earning over £70k in London alone (counting UCL, Imperial, King's, LBS, Queen Mary, LSE, St George's and City).

That is probably not far off the number of GPs who are earning £100k in London.

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STF of that 1635 the big earners will be doctors, who would get well over 70K as clinical professors.

Clinical academics get decent, well, clinical salaries. Non-clinical academics get sh!t salaries.

Doesn't bother me, I'll be clinical in 3 years or so...

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I thought lecturers did it for the love of the subject, and not for the money :o

I think they should hold out for the 75% pay increase*

*(over 25 years)

They certainly don't do it for the money! But after they get this amazingly wonderful job at the age of 30 or 35, if they are so lucky, with vast debts from the three degrees they had to do, supporting themselves on post grad research positions often paying 15K p/a, they have a lot of catching up to do!

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There is a bigger percentage rise - 15.5% - for the lowest-paid cleaners, porters, security staff and other non-academic university workers.

:blink::blink::blink:

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Hate to state the obvious.... British Universities have gone from being elite institutions training our finest minds, to being mass-market babysitters helping to fake the unemployment statistics.

Of course the low-grade lecturers we have now should be paid less than their better-qualified predecessors. Instead, they get yet another inflation-busting handout. It's even sicker when you consider how badly they've treated their students.

:angry:

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Hate to state the obvious.... British Universities have gone from being elite institutions training our finest minds, to being mass-market babysitters helping to fake the unemployment statistics.

Of course the low-grade lecturers we have now should be paid less than their better-qualified predecessors. Instead, they get yet another inflation-busting handout. It's even sicker when you consider how badly they've treated their students.

:angry:

Better qualified predecessors? In the old days they had PhDs and now they have... er.. PhDs.

If you have a problem with mass market baby sitting, blame Mr Blair. No lecturer I know (and I know plenty) ever wanted HE to go this way.

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dont you mean HIM ?

otherwise its hulk talk. which is against the rules.

Hulk want 25% pay rise.

Hulk angry.

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Better qualified predecessors? In the old days they had PhDs and now they have... er.. PhDs.

If you have a problem with mass market baby sitting, blame Mr Blair. No lecturer I know (and I know plenty) ever wanted HE to go this way.

Good point but I also know of some 'predecessors' who do not have PhD - it wasn't always necessary in the old days.

Now you must have a PhD and a publication and research record usually obtained through a few years of short term badly paid contracts before you could even consider applying for a decent lecturing post.

No - I don;t know any lecturers that wanted HE to go this way either. Lecturers are also fed up with increasing class sizes and feeling like they have to compromise the quality of the student experience because of the pressure to research and publish.

'baby sitting' ? I am going to risk the rath here and stand up for the students. TBH universities are so underfunded and lecturers are under such presssure that it amazes me any of the students get through three years and come out with a degree..hats off to them..some work very hard.

On the downside these same students would be wiser if they directed their anger at universities and funding bodies instead of the lecturers - who are actually on their side.

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I don't want to take sides in this debate as I don't know much about what lecturers actually do but I think it's worth mentioning the fabulous holidays they get. And the sabbatical year they get every 7 years. My brother is a prof and every 7 years he goes and gets himself a contract at a uni in another country and gets two salaries.

I know they are supposed to do research during the holidays and many dedicated types do, but I bet the majority take it easy and any research is done at a leisurely pace.

It's the same for teachers - they are quick to mention the nights spent marking until 2am but slow to mention the hols. BTW why shouldn't teachers earn as much or more than lecturers? It's a lot more difficult and stressful!

The problem is also that the only way to monitor the output of lecturers is through the number of papers they publish. This gives rise to the "publish or perish" academic industry, all those obscure journals that no-one reads except the academics who want to see their own names in them. Much of the research is a complete waste of tax-payers money.

The problem is of course we all want the best minds doing cutting edge research etc to be rewarded well, very well in fact. But not to have an academic gravy train for mediocre minds. All those 2nd rate unis producing 2nd rate students - many of them will go on to get PhDs - it's not that hard!

Sorry this probably hasn't contributed much but it really annoys me the way lecturers don't seem to realise that the rest of us who are no less intelligent, do boring jobs which don't pay fantastic salaries and we do them week in week out 9-5 at the very least, with only a few weeks hols a year. No swanning off to conferences, no sabbaticals, no uni holidays (don't tell me they're all doing research all day because the ones I know aren't). And recession-proof jobs.

I don't begrudge them this increase as it isn't actually that much but don't expect me to feel too sorry for them either.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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