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Mildura

Hips - One Reason Why It Won't Work

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I'm in the middle of dealing with a sale at the moment (I'm an EA :o ) which was agreed about 8 weeks ago. The buyers solicitors have now told me that they are waiting for a document from the Highways authority. This request was made at the end of April. The highways authority indicate such requests take a minimum of 20 working days but "could take longer."

Imagine when all this information has to be collated prior to a property coming to the market!!

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Not exactly a reason why they won't work is it.

It'll delay them being put together which will delay the house going on the market?

Houses which haven't changed hands for many years will have loads of bits of paperwork to chase up. It'll just move the delay from during the sale to before it goes on the market - which may be better for chains?

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I'm in the middle of dealing with a sale at the moment (I'm an EA :o ) which was agreed about 8 weeks ago. The buyers solicitors have now told me that they are waiting for a document from the Highways authority. This request was made at the end of April. The highways authority indicate such requests take a minimum of 20 working days but "could take longer."

Imagine when all this information has to be collated prior to a property coming to the market!!

weak champ. very very weak. a death rattle argument against the inevitable.

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Not exactly a reason why they won't work is it.

Agreed it won't stop them working but the whole dynamic of rushing a property onto the market will have to change. At present it can be done in 2/3 days from the time of contacting an estate agent. Hopefully it will take weeks or months in the future.

Since I first started looking at houses to buy in 1994, one of the most annoying aspects of the whole process is the number of 'sellers' that are just fishing for an idiot to pay their inflated asking price. Otherwise they have no intention of selling/moving.

If HIPs get rid of people who aren't really that bothered about selling then I will be happy that something good has come of it.

I just wish I had trained to be a surveyor......

Xil.

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Mildu

Trouble with EAs is your all past your sell by date the good times are coming to a close, can you work a checkout ?

Lets be honest the ASDA could do a better job, they have the right skill set - reactive.

Quit whining & get your self to the job centre should find many jobs in the 'unskilled' section

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I'm in the middle of dealing with a sale at the moment (I'm an EA :o ) which was agreed about 8 weeks ago. The buyers solicitors have now told me that they are waiting for a document from the Highways authority. This request was made at the end of April. The highways authority indicate such requests take a minimum of 20 working days but "could take longer."

Imagine when all this information has to be collated prior to a property coming to the market!!

Of course they`ll bloody well work <_<

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If HIPs get rid of people who aren't really that bothered about selling then I will be happy that something good has come of it.

Less seller's and expecting a HPC? It's unlikely to work like that...

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I read some FAQs yesterday from some organisation who have been formed to support the cause of HIPs.

Aparently if any information will not be obtainable (is that a word?) within a reasonable period (I think 14 days is planned) then the house can be marketed subject to the information being added as soon as possible (and I assume a note in the HIPs to say that it is absent).

So anything taking a long time to get together to go into the HIP won't actually stop a house from being put on the market. Obviously there will be some rules around it.

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I think that there may be various problems with HIPS, and forgive my cynical outlook.

A seller would appoint an inspector to complete the HIP, perhaps if they had been recommended a "good" inspector who may "accidentilly overlook" some issues, therefore presenting buyers with a more flattering report. This surveyor may even get more work because of his "excellent reporting skills".

Surveyors do miss things, I'm sure that we have all heard of surveyors being challenged or sued becuase they missed key structural / other defects, they then claim on their insurance or have extensive terms and conditions that can protect them from a financial fall out.

A seller may even get more than one HIP - to find the best HIP to show to potential buyers. (unless there is a central database recording the various HIPS carried out) Even if there was a central database perhaps they could request that the inspector does not record the report being carried out until the seller has seen it and is happy with it.

As a buyer, I would not rely on HIPS, I would always get an independent inspection and report. I would know that the surveyor was working on my behalf and in my best interests.

I'm sure that for genuine sellers, they will be happy to pay for the HIP, but it may remove speculative sellers from putting their property on the market "to see what the interest is like", I would imagine that some EAs must do this and then the speculative seller becomes a real seller becuase of the interest shown.

I'm sure that there must have been significant input to the whole HIP process from the various interested parties but there are always errors that come out when policies are put in place.

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I'm in the middle of dealing with a sale at the moment (I'm an EA :o ) which was agreed about 8 weeks ago. The buyers solicitors have now told me that they are waiting for a document from the Highways authority. This request was made at the end of April. The highways authority indicate such requests take a minimum of 20 working days but "could take longer."

Imagine when all this information has to be collated prior to a property coming to the market!!

Anyone knows what would happen if you just put your house up for sale and said b****ks to the HIPS ?

Where does the buck stop ? I can imagine it would be fairly easy to stick two fingers up all the way until it gets to the the solicitors ? How easy is DIY conveyancing ?

Is it a criminal offence to not have one ? A civil offence ?

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Less seller's and expecting a HPC? It's unlikely to work like that...

Rubbish - Higher IR's then people rushing to beat the HIP's deadline - it will actually help the price crash :rolleyes:

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Less seller's and expecting a HPC? It's unlikely to work like that...

Not my words. Your assumption.

But yes, if the froth is taken away because only genuine sellers can be bothered to complete the HIP process then there will be one less VI group in the system driving prices up. Higher proportion of genuine sellers equals more competition to sell. Eventually this will bring prices down.

HPC isn't an 'if'. It's a 'when'. As an estate agent, you should be hoping for a HPC and a more reliable market to work within.

Xil.

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Rubbish - Higher IR's then people rushing to beat the HIP's deadline - it will actually help the price crash :rolleyes:

I think you do have a point, there may be a rush to meet the deadline, perhaps creating a market for lemons , buyers would think, "whats wrong with this property, why are they rushing to market?" with the seller not saying anything - buyer beware. Also with higher IR's this will add more downward pressure, also would potential buyers just want to wait until after the deadline, therefore adding even more pressure?

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Is there any way the HIP could be avoided by the seller or EA advertising the property pre-hip, with some clever wording like "Coming to the market soon - 3-bed semi, etc etc, expected asking price £350,000"

Get the idea? At what point in law is the property actually being offered for sale?

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Ok, i'll say a little more...

Having a delay of a month before a property I don't think is a problem. Most people who market their property think about doing so long in advance before going to the market. Having a HIP will mean people will just have to plan their sale, which I think is a good thing.

One other thing I dislike about the current system is how you can look at detached houses (over £200k in my area) and suddenly find a terraced property. The seller is obviously trying to find a fool, and not only distorts HPI surveys, wastes peoples time. Even if they did get a sensible offer they would probably turn it down as they're not serious about selling.

I can't see a reason why a buyer wouldn't rely on a survey? The surveyor who carries out the survey is most likely the person who will do the survey for you, and do you think they would deliberately hide an issue for the seller?? I very much doubt it - i'm sure you could sue the HIP provider if that were the case. Also, Halifax & Nationwide has said they will rely on the HIP.

The HIP doesn't include a valuation report, fine. So you may have to pay the some fees to the lender. But the HIP was never designed to illiminate that. It's totally up to the lender if they will lend or not, they're taking on the risk. Most valuation surveys appoint drive by surveys (without an uzi) anyway.

If the HIP identified something bad, don't you think the seller would get it fixed? So when I go to view they could show me what they have done. If they didn't I would just get builders in for a valutation of the work anyway (which is free).

HIPs won't stop gazumping or gazundering. Fine, I agree it won't. But would I be annoyed if I lost the house (and maybe a few hundred in mortgage arrangment fees), sure - but would I be more annoyed if I lost the house (plus mortgage fees) and several hundered on top in surveys - yes I would.

And those who say it will lead to massive HPI are just trying to scare the public (mainly FTBs). Remember sellers are also buyers!!!

Put it this way, would you buy a car without an MOT? Nope of course you wouldn't. Would you pay for a an MOT on a car you don't own? Don't be silly.

The only objection to HIPs is it will lead to extra VAT for the treasury. But I don't hear complaints from these same people about other stealth taxes.

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I think that there may be various problems with HIPS, and forgive my cynical outlook.

A seller would appoint an inspector to complete the HIP, perhaps if they had been recommended a "good" inspector who may "accidentilly overlook" some issues, therefore presenting buyers with a more flattering report. This surveyor may even get more work because of his "excellent reporting skills".

Surveyors do miss things, I'm sure that we have all heard of surveyors being challenged or sued becuase they missed key structural / other defects, they then claim on their insurance or have extensive terms and conditions that can protect them from a financial fall out.

A seller may even get more than one HIP - to find the best HIP to show to potential buyers. (unless there is a central database recording the various HIPS carried out) Even if there was a central database perhaps they could request that the inspector does not record the report being carried out until the seller has seen it and is happy with it.

As a buyer, I would not rely on HIPS, I would always get an independent inspection and report. I would know that the surveyor was working on my behalf and in my best interests.

I'm sure that for genuine sellers, they will be happy to pay for the HIP, but it may remove speculative sellers from putting their property on the market "to see what the interest is like", I would imagine that some EAs must do this and then the speculative seller becomes a real seller becuase of the interest shown.

I'm sure that there must have been significant input to the whole HIP process from the various interested parties but there are always errors that come out when policies are put in place.

You need to get more info on the contents of the HIP. Firstly the Home Inspector (HI ) is the person doing the Home Condition Report (HCR ) This is only part of the HIP. The HI 's will be licensed and their work auditted.

HI's will work to a Code Of Practise. There is a Central Database for HIPS. The HCR will be uploaded to it by the HI , whose license , livlehood depends upon the HCR being objective.

I'm currently training to be a HI. It costing me £10 K plus a lot of effort. Do you really think I or any other HI is going to be open to bribes as you are suggesting .

You're having a laugh mate ! Get your facts straight before gobbing off. Dont judge other people by your own low standards

Anyone knows what would happen if you just put your house up for sale and said b****ks to the HIPS ?

Where does the buck stop ? I can imagine it would be fairly easy to stick two fingers up all the way until it gets to the the solicitors ? How easy is DIY conveyancing ?

Is it a criminal offence to not have one ? A civil offence ?

It will cost you/ or your EA £200 per day for every day you market without a HIP

Ok, i'll say a little more...

Having a delay of a month before a property I don't think is a problem. Most people who market their property think about doing so long in advance before going to the market. Having a HIP will mean people will just have to plan their sale, which I think is a good thing.

One other thing I dislike about the current system is how you can look at detached houses (over £200k in my area) and suddenly find a terraced property. The seller is obviously trying to find a fool, and not only distorts HPI surveys, wastes peoples time. Even if they did get a sensible offer they would probably turn it down as they're not serious about selling.

I can't see a reason why a buyer wouldn't rely on a survey? The surveyor who carries out the survey is most likely the person who will do the survey for you, and do you think they would deliberately hide an issue for the seller?? I very much doubt it - i'm sure you could sue the HIP provider if that were the case. Also, Halifax & Nationwide has said they will rely on the HIP.

The HIP doesn't include a valuation report, fine. So you may have to pay the some fees to the lender. But the HIP was never designed to illiminate that. It's totally up to the lender if they will lend or not, they're taking on the risk. Most valuation surveys appoint drive by surveys (without an uzi) anyway.

If the HIP identified something bad, don't you think the seller would get it fixed? So when I go to view they could show me what they have done. If they didn't I would just get builders in for a valutation of the work anyway (which is free).

HIPs won't stop gazumping or gazundering. Fine, I agree it won't. But would I be annoyed if I lost the house (and maybe a few hundred in mortgage arrangment fees), sure - but would I be more annoyed if I lost the house (plus mortgage fees) and several hundered on top in surveys - yes I would.

And those who say it will lead to massive HPI are just trying to scare the public (mainly FTBs). Remember sellers are also buyers!!!

Put it this way, would you buy a car without an MOT? Nope of course you wouldn't. Would you pay for a an MOT on a car you don't own? Don't be silly.

The only objection to HIPs is it will lead to extra VAT for the treasury. But I don't hear complaints from these same people about other stealth taxes.

What will happen is that the lender will use the HCR / HIP and conduct a desktop valuation. This will at least be based upon some facts and not wishful thinking as it is now.

Lets face it, an EA / owner can value a house at £400K if the lender only thinks it's worth £300K , thats all he will lend on . Period

The current method of valuation ( what did No 6 go for ) is not really much cop is it?

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It will cost you/ or your EA £200 per day for every day you market without a HIP

Ouch !!!

Seeing as the police are busy trying to find out where all the foreign muggers and rapists are etc etc, this would be an impossible nightmare to enforce if it were a criminal offence.

So its a civil offence then.

Will the government palm this collection off to bailiffs/debt/wheel-clamping cowboys then ?

And fill the coffers of the Big G - as its 17.5% VAT on it all.

Edited by Rigsby

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Not my words. Your assumption.

But yes, if the froth is taken away because only genuine sellers can be bothered to complete the HIP process then there will be one less VI group in the system driving prices up. Higher proportion of genuine sellers equals more competition to sell. Eventually this will bring prices down.

HPC isn't an 'if'. It's a 'when'. As an estate agent, you should be hoping for a HPC and a more reliable market to work within.

Xil.

Boy, you are so wrong it is mind-boggling. Your sentence 'higher proportion of genuine sellers equals more competition to sell' is probably the daftest thing I have seen here. Are you under the illusion that someone who puts their house on the market on a whim is not going to sell? Research suggests up to a third of house sales are as a result of a seller saying 'let's test the water'. One of the principal reasons for the insane house prices we have now is that, as has SO OFTEN been observed here before, house prices are set at the margins. Do you know what this means? Do you understand it?

If a house goes on the market at £350k - you might think it is expensive and over priced etc. You only need ONE person that can afford that house and wants it for the house to be sold at that price.

It doesn't matter if there are 100 people who would like that house but can't afford it - it only takes ONE.

At any point in time only a small percentage of the UK's housing supply is for sale. So, as long as there are enough people who can afford what is on offer, the market will NOT FALL. You might be PRICED OUT, it doesn't mean everyone is and it doesn't mean that everyone can, will, must or should own a certain type of property at a certain price.

ONE THING IS CERTAIN. If you take away a third of the houses on the market because those 'let's give it a try' sellers do not want to risk the cost of a HIP then, as sure as night follows day, the PRICE OF HOUSES WILL GO UP.

There will be a stampede to get houses on the market next spring. I will buy then. Later in the year whatever I buy will be worth a lot more.

Ouch !!!

Seeing as the police are busy trying to find out where all the foreign muggers and rapists are etc etc, this would be an impossible nightmare to enforce if it were a criminal offence.

So its a civil offence then.

Will the government palm this collection off to bailiffs/debt/wheel-clamping cowboys then ?

And fill the coffers of the Big G - as its 17.5% VAT on it all.

As the guy fighting Ken's congestion charge has pointed out - The BILL of RIGHTs enshrines in law the fact that you cannot be fined without being charged and brought to court. If a lot of people refused HIPs - there is no way they could be enforced.

You need to get more info on the contents of the HIP. Firstly the Home Inspector (HI ) is the person doing the Home Condition Report (HCR ) This is only part of the HIP. The HI 's will be licensed and their work auditted.

HI's will work to a Code Of Practise. There is a Central Database for HIPS. The HCR will be uploaded to it by the HI , whose license , livlehood depends upon the HCR being objective.

I'm currently training to be a HI. It costing me £10 K plus a lot of effort. Do you really think I or any other HI is going to be open to bribes as you are suggesting .

You're having a laugh mate ! Get your facts straight before gobbing off. Dont judge other people by your own low standards

It will cost you/ or your EA £200 per day for every day you market without a HIP

What will happen is that the lender will use the HCR / HIP and conduct a desktop valuation. This will at least be based upon some facts and not wishful thinking as it is now.

Lets face it, an EA / owner can value a house at £400K if the lender only thinks it's worth £300K , thats all he will lend on . Period

The current method of valuation ( what did No 6 go for ) is not really much cop is it?

Fair play to you. You're investing 10k of your own money training for something the next government have already pledged to abandon.

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If a lot of people refused HIPs - there is no way they could be enforced.

It smacks of criminalising law-abiding citizens...

A kind of soft-target-speed-camera-wealth-generating kind of thingy - but for houses...

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You need to get more info on the contents of the HIP. Firstly the Home Inspector (HI ) is the person doing the Home Condition Report (HCR ) This is only part of the HIP. The HI 's will be licensed and their work auditted.

HI's will work to a Code Of Practise. There is a Central Database for HIPS. The HCR will be uploaded to it by the HI , whose license , livlehood depends upon the HCR being objective.

I'm currently training to be a HI. It costing me £10 K plus a lot of effort. Do you really think I or any other HI is going to be open to bribes as you are suggesting .

You're having a laugh mate ! Get your facts straight before gobbing off. Dont judge other people by your own low standards

Hi Leefam83,

thanks for your comments. Good to hear from someone who is currently going through this training. When you are commissioned/retained to carry out a HCR, I imagine that the HCR must been uploaded to the database. What happens if the vendor decides not to put the property on the market, do you still ahve to upload it? therefore the seller cannot just keep getting different HCRs to suit.

Also I am not suggesting that you are open to bribes. I can only speak from experience of friends who have bought places who subsequently have found out that their surveyors have missed major structural and other problems that should have been reported on in the initial inspection. These surveyors are still practicing, things do get missed - importantly I am not saying this is a reflection on all surveyors.

Also as a buyer while the HCR would be useful I would still carry out a comprehensive survey of the property. I know HCRs are not there to replace buyers surveys.

Due to the fact that you are going through this training, you must know most of the arguments pretty well. What effect do you think that it will have on buyers, sellers and house prices pre and post the HIP start date?

I may sound cynical, but when it comes to spending the kind of money that you need to buy a property, sellers will do as much as they can to maximise it and buyers need to be as careful as possible - so a good healthy dose of cynicism, I think, is essential.

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Boy, you are so wrong it is mind-boggling. Your sentence 'higher proportion of genuine sellers equals more competition to sell' is probably the daftest thing I have seen here. Are you under the illusion that someone who puts their house on the market on a whim is not going to sell? Research suggests up to a third of house sales are as a result of a seller saying 'let's test the water'. One of the principal reasons for the insane house prices we have now is that, as has SO OFTEN been observed here before, house prices are set at the margins. Do you know what this means? Do you understand it?

If a house goes on the market at £350k - you might think it is expensive and over priced etc. You only need ONE person that can afford that house and wants it for the house to be sold at that price.

It doesn't matter if there are 100 people who would like that house but can't afford it - it only takes ONE.

At any point in time only a small percentage of the UK's housing supply is for sale. So, as long as there are enough people who can afford what is on offer, the market will NOT FALL. You might be PRICED OUT, it doesn't mean everyone is and it doesn't mean that everyone can, will, must or should own a certain type of property at a certain price.

ONE THING IS CERTAIN. If you take away a third of the houses on the market because those 'let's give it a try' sellers do not want to risk the cost of a HIP then, as sure as night follows day, the PRICE OF HOUSES WILL GO UP.

There will be a stampede to get houses on the market next spring. I will buy then. Later in the year whatever I buy will be worth a lot more.

As the guy fighting Ken's congestion charge has pointed out - The BILL of RIGHTs enshrines in law the fact that you cannot be fined without being charged and brought to court. If a lot of people refused HIPs - there is no way they could be enforced.

Fair play to you. You're investing 10k of your own money training for something the next government have already pledged to abandon.

We shall see , the legislation for HIPs is part of a whole raft of legislation ( Energy Reports etc ) which the Tories have signed up to. They actually agree with the scheme in principle but not with it's content. You're big on " Research " Low on fact

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The Government has a HIPs information website: http://www.homeinformationpacks.gov.uk/home.aspx

FAQs http://www.homeinformationpacks.gov.uk/faq_hip.aspx

http://www.homeinformationpacks.gov.uk/contact-us.aspx

If you want to know more, you can:

Email: homeinfopacks@communities.gsi.gov.uk

Write to:

Home Ownership Policy Branch

Department for Communities and Local Government

2/J9 Eland House

Bressenden Place

London, SW1E 5DU

Tel: 020 7944 4400 :blink:

----------

HD

Edited by HouseDog

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Is there any way the HIP could be avoided by the seller or EA advertising the property pre-hip, with some clever wording like "Coming to the market soon - 3-bed semi, etc etc, expected asking price £350,000"

Get the idea? At what point in law is the property actually being offered for sale?

Yes it might just work.

In fact I think I read somewhere that some company has set themselves up to offer your home to market for silly money on a continual basis, so that it won't sell but is already being marketed. Thus if you want to sell in future you'll probably avoid HIPs. But if you sell in the meantime then it'll only be for a very nice sum.

Does it work? Will it avoid HIPs? who knows.

Leefam83,

Will HIPs include any mechanism for redress for buyers in the event that there is incorrect details in the HIP?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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