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Plans To Close Camelot Theme Park In The North West

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Just been on the BBC NW news with an interview with the boss of the park. The interviewer mocked the press release that says 'a new lease of life for the park'. He said it was more like death of the park wasn't it ?

The boss said they would be building a whole development with schools etc, so it would be much more than just 1000 houses. Apparently they are finding it tough these days with the likes of Alton Towers etc being preferred by the kids.

www.camelotthemepark.co.uk is their hompage, but I could not find a link to the story as yet.

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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is the onsite cafe closing?

the one that sells eggs and cakes and spam-a-lot?

Yes, the cakes that smell of elderberries. Looks like the park have been trying to do this for several years but encountered the 'Knights that say No' (Ni!)

"3.85 NWRA stated that the development of 1,000 dwellings would not qualify as an exception to RPG13 Policy SD8, neither would it contribute to the achievement of RPG13 strategy and added that RPG13 Policy DP1, which places emphasis on the use of previously developed land, must be applied in the context of the overall strategy which seeks to promote urban consolidation and renaissance.

The JSPA said that the proposed housing development would be contrary to RPG13 Policy SD3 and Policy 5 of the JLSP. They consider that there is no overriding need for new housing on this site as Chorley Borough’s allocation could be found elsewhere and the site was too remote from the main urban areas including Preston where the need is being generated.

They were concerned that it would promote further out migration from the metropolitan area and the use of car borne trips for work and services.

http://www.themagiceye.co.uk/dayoftheknights8.html

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Sounds like a roller coaster ride.

You can expect as much, the planning system distorts the value of buildable land so a company can often just shutdown a facility and bank the money and higher returns on capital than actually doing productive work and exports. Take Peugeot in Coventry for instance, the site is worth a fortune, hence it's being closed down and sold off, production is being moved to Slovakia where the land and supporting infrastructure is gifted by the government as they're grateful of the employment it brings. We on the other hand like to give undue value to a 'brownfield' or chunk of scrub land.

It's all part of the bubble economy, it drives out real production and exports and replaces them with ponzi style asset speculation.

They're also planning to destroy large parts of the Silverstone racing track to provide housing, of course, guess what's surrounding the track for miles around? Yup, sweet F.A.

Edited by BuyingBear

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Guest Guy_Montag

Sounds like a roller coaster ride.

You can expect as much, the planning system distorts the value of buildable land so a company can often just shutdown a facility and bank the money and higher returns on capital than actually doing productive work and exports. Take Peugeot in Coventry for instance, the site is worth a fortune, hence it's being closed down and sold off, production is being moved to Slovakia where the land and supporting infrastructure is gifted by the government as they're grateful of the employment it brings. We on the other hand like to give undue value to a 'brownfield' or chunk of scrub land.

It's all part of the bubble economy, it drives out real production and exports and replaces them with ponzi style asset speculation.

They're also planning to destroy large parts of the Silverstone racing track to provide housing, of course, guess what's surrounding the track for miles around? Yup, sweet F.A.

That is an extremely good point, I never thought of it like that. Flog the land your business is on, take the cash & retire a happy man, or invest the cash overseas in building a new factory on cheap land. FFS.

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That is an extremely good point, I never thought of it like that. Flog the land your business is on, take the cash & retire a happy man, or invest the cash overseas in building a new factory on cheap land. FFS.

Exactly, you see this especially in manufacturing as it's relatively land hungry compared to a call center for example. Of course, there has always been a natural incentive to shutdown sites and consolidate production, but when a company is offered a fair few mil by a developer it focuses the mind, especially when Eastern European countries are gifting land and tax breaks like the UK once did for companies such as Toyota. Or you can simply outsource to China and just retain a small HQ in the UK. We've even lost HP FFS! ;)

We now give undue value to once worthless land, you can see it all over the place, like new build estates crammed next to major motorway interchanges or rail termini, such sites once 'housed' light industry and no self-respecting council would allow housing in such environments.

Our remaining industry is only there because of sunk costs, they couldn't afford to set up again today, if a company wanted a five hectare site their return on capital would have to exceed that of building >250 houses. In the longrun a company will add value, employ people, pay taxes, produce exports and contribute to real GDP growth... but if a housing estate is build in its place what does it add? Notional equity and debt? That will keep the banks happy but can you sustain an entire country on that?

There is a gross misallocation of capital.

Edited by BuyingBear

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Exactly, you see this especially in manufacturing as it's relatively land hungry compared to a call center for example. Of course, there has always been a natural incentive to shutdown sites and consolidate production, but when a company is offered a fair few mil by a developer it focuses the mind, especially when Eastern European countries are gifting land like the UK once did for companies such as Toyota. Or you can simply outsource to China and just remain a small HQ in the UK. We've even lost HP FFS! ;)

We now give undue value to once worthless land, you can see it all over the place, like new build estates crammed next to major motorway interchanges or rail termini, such sites once 'housed' light industry and no self-respecting council would allow housing in such environments.

Our remaining industry is only there because of sunk costs, they couldn't afford to set up again today, if a company wanted a five hectare site their return on capital would have to exceed that of building >250 houses. In the longrun a company will add value, employ people, pay taxes, produce exports and contribute to real GDP growth... but if a housing estate is build in its place what does it add? Notional equity and debt? That will keep the banks happy but can you sustain an entire country on that?

There is a gross misallocation of capital.

Very good points made by all, i am afraid greed clouds a lot of this, when this bubble bursts with it's predicted fall out, I hope one of the things we learn is that you can not get something for nothing and reward follows work

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Very good points made by all, i am afraid greed clouds a lot of this, when this bubble bursts with it's predicted fall out, I hope one of the things we learn is that you can not get something for nothing and reward follows work

We've been here before in the 1970's with Slater-Walker style asset stripping, it didn't add any value to our economy in the longrun but it was one hell of a romp and they loved them for it, such are the virtues of rape and pillage.

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Guest Guy_Montag

Exactly, you see this especially in manufacturing as it's relatively land hungry compared to a call center for example. Of course, there has always been a natural incentive to shutdown sites and consolidate production, but when a company is offered a fair few mil by a developer it focuses the mind, especially when Eastern European countries are gifting land and tax breaks like the UK once did for companies such as Toyota. Or you can simply outsource to China and just retain a small HQ in the UK. We've even lost HP FFS! ;)

We now give undue value to once worthless land, you can see it all over the place, like new build estates crammed next to major motorway interchanges or rail termini, such sites once 'housed' light industry and no self-respecting council would allow housing in such environments.

Our remaining industry is only there because of sunk costs, they couldn't afford to set up again today, if a company wanted a five hectare site their return on capital would have to exceed that of building >250 houses. In the longrun a company will add value, employ people, pay taxes, produce exports and contribute to real GDP growth... but if a housing estate is build in its place what does it add? Notional equity and debt? That will keep the banks happy but can you sustain an entire country on that?

There is a gross misallocation of capital.

I think you should tidy that up slightly & send it to the Times, Telegraph or FT.

Seriously you make an excellent point, a point that's got to be heard.

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It's all part of the bubble economy, it drives out real production and exports and replaces them with ponzi style asset speculation.

Agree - there is almost every motivation to shut down and ship out - building land, wages, cost of living, lax labour/redundancy laws. The scmucks put what is happening down to globalisation alone, it is patently untrue, a lot is self-imposed.

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Sounds like a roller coaster ride.

You can expect as much, the planning system distorts the value of buildable land so a company can often just shutdown a facility and bank the money and higher returns on capital than actually doing productive work and exports. Take Peugeot in Coventry for instance, the site is worth a fortune, hence it's being closed down and sold off, production is being moved to Slovakia where the land and supporting infrastructure is gifted by the government as they're grateful of the employment it brings. We on the other hand like to give undue value to a 'brownfield' or chunk of scrub land.

It's all part of the bubble economy, it drives out real production and exports and replaces them with ponzi style asset speculation.

They're also planning to destroy large parts of the Silverstone racing track to provide housing, of course, guess what's surrounding the track for miles around? Yup, sweet F.A.

Spot on BB,

Finally found a BBC link to the story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5048858.stm

I watched a slightly expanded report of this story on the 6 o'clock news. When the boss was asked about competiton / profitability, he paused slightly as he did at luchtime, and made what IMO were vague excuses of competition.

It seemed to me he was lying.

Argueably, he's not going to say things are going down the pan as the parks still open at present & such a statement would damage attendance.

Do you think we will see a flood of this type of planning application as land owners try to sell off before the market goes further off the rails ?

They also had an interview with 'planning consultant' Nick Laister (presumably employed by the park owners for PR/spin) saying that the Gov. stated 68% more houses were needed in the area annually.

Before the 1000 home application in 2004, they tried to get 161 homes built in 2003, but were refused planning again by the council as well.

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:6hvvi...uk&ct=clnk&cd=3

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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I watched a slightly expanded report of this story on the 6 o'clock news. When the boss was asked about competiton / profitability, he paused slightly as he did at luchtime, and made what IMO were vague excuses of competition.

It seemed to me he was lying.

Maybe they are suffering from amusement park experiences being directly imported from China? :lol: Ironically leisure and these sorts of service industries are of course immune from outsourcing and cheap imports for obvious reasons, from looking at the council minutes it seems the committee is more than aware of this and its impact on employment. However, even being in a service industry is still not enough to counter the lure of feudal style residential property speculation, especially so if you're sitting on a big site that is designated "brownfield". An empty field next door that loses the farmer and government money each year is eminently more suitable for housing development, yet it didn't come with the golden ticket that is planning permission, hence they need to destroy a pre-existing site at considerable expense, and with wider economic impacts on employment.

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Maybe they are suffering from amusement park experiences being directly imported from China? :lol: Ironically leisure and these sorts of service industries are of course immune from outsourcing and cheap imports for obvious reasons, from looking at the council minutes it seems the committee is more than aware of this and its impact on employment. However, even being in a service industry is still not enough to counter the lure of feudal style residential property speculation, especially so if you're sitting on a big site that is designated "brownfield". An empty field next door that loses the farmer and government money each year is eminently more suitable for housing development, yet it didn't come with the golden ticket that is planning permission, hence they need to destroy a pre-existing site at considerable expense, and with wider economic impacts on employment.

:D Perhaps converting it to a historic 'Draculas Castle' theme park with authentic accented cheap import East Europan labour would be a topical plan B.

Its a scandal that the environmental /energy cost invested in the buildings on such sites is ignored & they are just demolished willy nilly. Perhaps the balance of building on the empty field next door will be more even when energy/ resource cost rise further.

Personally I cannot take these medieval park places seriously as I always think of a hilarious episode of 'King of the Hill' series 5 'Joust Like A Woman'

"Mr. Strickland sends Hank on a mission to sell propane to a Renaissance Fair, in order to light up their giant fire-breathing dragon. At the Fair, Hank must wear a medieval costume and in order to meet King Phillip, the fair’s owner, who takes being king a little too seriously. Hank is excited about the sale and tells Peggy that with the extra money they could finally install a double sink in the bathroom.

Hank takes the family to the Renaissance Fair and Peggy, who’s studied medieval history, points out historical inaccuracies and offends King Phillip. Phillip tells Hank that if he wants the sale Peggy must work at his fair. Peggy becomes a cleaning wench and realizes that all the women are treated unfairly and are sexually harassed by the king.

Peggy tries to rally the other women to protest the treatment and she tries to unsuccessfully, start a rebellion by throwing tomatoes at the King. Phillip orders Peggy to be put into the stocks and the crowd begins to throw tomatoes at her. Hank steps in to save Peggy and challenges Phillip to a joust. If Hank wins, he wins the fair’s propane account, but if Phillip wins, Hank loses the account and Peggy must clean the tomato stains out of Phillip’s shirt. At the joust, Hank loses to Phillip, and before Phillip can embarrass Hank further, Peggy rides in as a black knight and defeats Phillip. At the end all the wenches summon Phillip with a lawsuit.

GUEST VOICE: ALAN RICKMAN, LAURA DERN"

I think the Simpsons did one as well, so they seem a popular humour target.

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Personally I cannot take these medieval park places seriously as I always think of a hilarious episode of 'King of the Hill' series 5 'Joust Like A Woman'

I've seen that one, shocking accents and all. The yanks love that stuff, I once had the pleasure of enjoying an English village fete complete with buntings, cricket, cream cakes and teas but in Germany of all places! Don't ask me why, obviously our past is quite innocent by comparison.

In the future the UK will soley consist of pockets of highly packed housing estates built on all remaining factories or useful structures, there will be a few Tesco's and IKEA's dotted around and the population will make its living by working in either of the aforementioned stores and by swapping debts between themselves, whilst also speculating and marvelling at the alchemical properties of building bricks.

Edited by BuyingBear

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:D Perhaps converting it to a historic 'Draculas Castle' theme park with authentic accented cheap import East Europan labour would be a topical plan B.

They seem set on converting it into "Medieval Feudal Fiefdom", a magical land where the peasants endlessly toil on their ever shrinking plots in order to accumulate enough corn to pay off their ever escalating debts to their manorial Lordships, the wretched knaves could vainly labour for eternity but it would never be enough to assuage their vengeful masters.

That would be a sight to behold, it's a little far fetched though, nobody would believe it.

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Spot on BB,

Finally found a BBC link to the story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5048858.stm

I watched a slightly expanded report of this story on the 6 o'clock news. When the boss was asked about competiton / profitability, he paused slightly as he did at luchtime, and made what IMO were vague excuses of competition.

It seemed to me he was lying.

Argueably, he's not going to say things are going down the pan as the parks still open at present & such a statement would damage attendance.

Before the 1000 home application in 2004, they tried to get 161 homes built in 2003, but were refused planning again by the council as well.

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:6hvvi...uk&ct=clnk&cd=3

It's interesting that he did not say too much when quized about competition - Im sure that there is another similar sized devlopment at a former ROF site less than 10 miles away. :unsure:

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