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BillyShears

A New Solution To The Ftb Problem

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We've had lots of television programs talking about how FTBs can get a foot on the property ladder by buying in Eastern Europe or other countries. Of course, they can't commute from there, so they can't actually live in the properties.

If there's no need for someone to live in the property to be on the property ladder, then an alternative solution to the problem would be to build properties in the UK that are too small to live in. If "affordable homes" were built that were about a six inch cube, then thousands if not tens of thousands of these could be built on a single plot of land. And the lower construction and land costs would mean that the prices could be kept within the reach of low income workers, perhaps as low as £20K or so. The FTBs buy the properties, then wait for continued HPI to build equity in their property, which can later on be used to fund a larger deposit for a property actually big enough to live in.

Billy Shears

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You may joke - I am a development surveyor and an architect just presented me with the following floor areas for a potential scheme in Crawley:

1 bed flat = 41 sqm

2 bed falt = 47 sqm

These places would be fine if you a) had no furniture, B) didn't enjoy moving around too much, and c) had no visitors (or visitors who would talk to you from the street).

Cheers,

OD

Edited by Objective Developer

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I like your surreal thinking today Billy.

I have an image of one of those miniature cities that they used to have in Butlins or wherever, with lots of tiny for sale signs....

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Guest Baffled_by_it_all

I recently stayed in Butlins Camber Sands and looking at the rows of poky holiday apartments I was reminded of new build/ shared ownership flats.

There's a particularly choice development off Holloway Road. It's like a badly-built canyon. Noticed it on my way to the tip - at the end of the road.

People are willing to sacrifice their standard of living to buy somewhere. Don't joke about your micro townships. They may come true.

Unless the correction happens first

Objective Developer - you're a surveyor who can't spell 'flat'...

Edited by Baffled_by_it_all

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You may joke - I am a development surveyor and an architect just presented me with the following floor areas for a potential scheme in Crawley:

1 bed flat = 41 sqm

2 bed falt = 47 sqm

These places would be fine if you a) had no furniture, B) didn't enjoy moving around too much, and c) had no visitors (or visitors who would talk to you from the street).

Cheers,

OD

Oh, a veritable mansion. I don't know what you're complaining about.

My flat from 3 moves ago was 28 sqm...

Billy Shears I like the way you think - hardly ever out of tune. ;)

These FTBs could also buy shares in 'real' property, perhaps 1 or 2%.

Just think, by the time they're 60 they might even own a whole house of their own. :o

Hang on, isn't that how it works in Islamic countries (no mortgages, see).

Edited by Nijo

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Oh, a veritable mansion. I don't know what you're complaining about.

My flat from 3 moves ago was 28 sqm...

Billy Shears I like the way you think - hardly ever out of tune. ;)

These FTBs could also buy shares in 'real' property, perhaps 1 or 2%.

Just think, by the time they're 60 they might even own a whole house of their own. :o

Hang on, isn't that how it works in Islamic countries (no mortgages, see).

I like your shares idea. Potential FTBs would buy a fixed percentage of a house. Say 5%. Then, when the house is sold later on, the potential FTB receives 5% of the sale price. With rampant HPI this will be an increased value, and the potential FTB can then buy parts of other houses, eventually building up enough to buy their own house. The home-owner benefits through decreased mortgage interest payments and the potential FTB can keep up with the property market no matter what the rate of HPI. A win-win situation all round.

Billy Shears

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The FTBs buy the properties, then wait for continued HPI to build equity in their property, which can later on be used to fund a larger deposit for a property actually big enough to live in.

Billy Shears

Billy your inovative thought and problem solving knows no bounds - you really are now considered a top property developer.

Trouble is house and materials is only part of the problem, and where the hell will the essential 42" HD plasma be kept? No! lack of non-green belt land is an key issue.

Perhapes through the sale such brown field plots on the likes of Jupiter and Neptune everyone will be able to have acreage to provide for decent family sized accomodation which could also be used to provide an excellent rental income stream with good capital growth prospects thereby aleviating the need for pension provision?

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You may joke - I am a development surveyor and an architect just presented me with the following floor areas for a potential scheme in Crawley:

1 bed flat = 41 sqm

2 bed falt = 47 sqm

These places would be fine if you a) had no furniture, B) didn't enjoy moving around too much, and c) had no visitors (or visitors who would talk to you from the street).

Cheers,

OD

in the absence of a free market, it is surely essential for government to regulate the quality of homes being constructed. These dimensions are not fit for human occupation.

If developers actually had to compete with each other on quality, we would get decent homes built. As it is they can build any crud and sell it for £300k or whatever they feel like today.

Would there be a possibilty of referring builders to the DTI or monopolies and mergers commission? They do not have to compete with each other to sell their product due to the artificial constraints on the supply of land and new homes. It's the equivalent of being sold rancid meat because there are only a handful of licenced farmers in the country.

Is this worth pursuing?

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Objective Developer - you're a surveyor who can't spell 'flat'...

Although a 2BR fault = 47 sq m seems a strangely apt description.

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in the absence of a free market, it is surely essential for government to regulate the quality of homes being constructed. These dimensions are not fit for human occupation.

There used to be much stricter regulations on room sizes, floor space etc for new homes.

Thatcher government weakened the regulations and reduced all the limits. NuLab have failed to do anything about this, and with their "affordable housing" guff are actively encouraging the idea that cheap crappy homes are the way forward. So they're both equally to blame.

It doesn't even cost that much more to build reasonable housing. And whatever you build, people will have to live in it for a generation or more, so it's despicable that the corporate builders have been able to get away with building such garbage, much of which will be tomorrow's ghettos.

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There used to be much stricter regulations on room sizes, floor space etc for new homes.

Thatcher government weakened the regulations and reduced all the limits. NuLab have failed to do anything about this, and with their "affordable housing" guff are actively encouraging the idea that cheap crappy homes are the way forward. So they're both equally to blame.

It doesn't even cost that much more to build reasonable housing. And whatever you build, people will have to live in it for a generation or more, so it's despicable that the corporate builders have been able to get away with building such garbage, much of which will be tomorrow's ghettos.

Is that why the police came down hard when homeless people started building a shanty-town in London? They were protecting the developers from competition?

Billy Shears

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The mortgage is sacrosanct in UK life. It is the source of a huge proportion of the cash in circulation in the economy. To damage house prices is inevitably to bring about recession. I can't see that it is possible to have one without the other? Correct me if this is wrong.....

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Is that why the police came down hard when homeless people started building a shanty-town in London? They were protecting the developers from competition?

Billy Shears

Where was that? I must have missed it...

But can they stop us from building tiny munchkin-sized estates in our gardens and selling them to desperate FTBs as fantastic investment opportunities. The police would look a bit silly smashing up miniature houses with their truncheons.

Edited by Magpie

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Where was that? I must have missed it...

But can they stop us from building tiny munchkin-sized estates in our gardens and selling them to desperate FTBs as fantastic investment opportunities. The police would look a bit silly smashing up miniature houses with their truncheons.

Now that I see it quoted back at me, I may have exaggerated a little, or perhaps even a great deal. There was a developing "community" under the underpass in front of, I think, Waterloo Station some years ago. There were a lot of homeless people under there, and people were starting to construct shelters out of big cardboard boxes, but also bits of wood and old furniture. There were regular cooking places etc. Then the police cleared them out. If it had been left it was clearly going to become a shantytown.

Billy Shears

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Now that I see it quoted back at me, I may have exaggerated a little, or perhaps even a great deal. There was a developing "community" under the underpass in front of, I think, Waterloo Station some years ago. There were a lot of homeless people under there, and people were starting to construct shelters out of big cardboard boxes, but also bits of wood and old furniture. There were regular cooking places etc. Then the police cleared them out. If it had been left it was clearly going to become a shantytown.

Billy Shears

Oh, yeah - it already was a kind of shanty town in truth. The clear-out was for the redevelopment I think (the underpass was always a dodgy place, now it's a big cinema complex or something instead). But the police do generally seem to favour developers over gypsies, winos, or squatters - no surprise there.

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Billy your inovative thought and problem solving knows no bounds - you really are now considered a top property developer.

Trouble is house and materials is only part of the problem, and where the hell will the essential 42" HD plasma be kept? No! lack of non-green belt land is an key issue.

Perhapes through the sale such brown field plots on the likes of Jupiter and Neptune everyone will be able to have acreage to provide for decent family sized accomodation which could also be used to provide an excellent rental income stream with good capital growth prospects thereby aleviating the need for pension provision?

I intend to by 4 50" Plasma's and will use them as a supporting wall. SHould well get past Building regs... the surveyor would walk in/// see them and go RESPECT!!!!!! It may not be safe but it sure looks fooking cool!!! :lol:

TB

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We've had lots of television programs talking about how FTBs can get a foot on the property ladder by buying in Eastern Europe or other countries. Of course, they can't commute from there, so they can't actually live in the properties.

If there's no need for someone to live in the property to be on the property ladder, then an alternative solution to the problem would be to build properties in the UK that are too small to live in. If "affordable homes" were built that were about a six inch cube, then thousands if not tens of thousands of these could be built on a single plot of land. And the lower construction and land costs would mean that the prices could be kept within the reach of low income workers, perhaps as low as £20K or so. The FTBs buy the properties, then wait for continued HPI to build equity in their property, which can later on be used to fund a larger deposit for a property actually big enough to live in.

Billy Shears

Excellent BS.

And your idea could be extended in all sorts of novel ways. For example these small dwellings could be built underground, even on green field sites, where they would present no visible scar on the countryside. This would open up vast tracts of the UK for potential development to the extent that we could all own hundreds of properties.

Alternatively, since houses are an investment and no longer for living in, they could be made smaller still and simply stored in a bank vault - a bit like gold.

Imagine the equity we could all build up as these houses continue to rise in price in line with Kirstey's predictions.

Edited by Red Baron

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Alternatively, since houses are an investment and no longer for living in, they could be made smaller still and simply stored in a bank vault - a bit like gold.

Imagine the equity we could all build up as these houses continue to rise in price in line with Kirstey's predictions.

:lol::lol::lol:

(I thought I'd do one of these replies as I'm seeking promotion from Newbie status. How many more times will I need to laugh uproariously without making a material contribution to the thread?)

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in the absence of a free market, it is surely essential for government to regulate the quality of homes being constructed. These dimensions are not fit for human occupation.

Government regulations are now there to ensure new housing is sufficiently compact, you are not allowed to build under 40 dwellings per hectare, the more you pack in the better. So the government is there to ensure the market drives down the size and quality of housing, just in case the market based race to the bottom is not enough.

In case anyone is wondering the above fact and not satire (though government policy can often be construed as satire).

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Not sure if it's relevant - visited recent shared ownership scheme where flats were uch less than 400sqm. There was a big open-house viewing - so bumped into loads of similar people hoping this was the solution to their problems.

Pretty much everyone I spoke to said - too small. And for me - much too small - couldn't have got my furniture in - which is currently in a rented "studio".

Asked the Association - who had really difficulty getting the properties sold - why they were so small. They said set by the local Council. Suspected at the time, if I'd quizzed the Council - it would have been govt driven.

Seem to think that affordable housing = shoe-box - but at 1 bed flat prices.

Brings to mind the first time the housing market experienced this madness - when the BBC and all the major newspapers reported a cleaners cupboard for sale in Knightsbridge - for some absurd figure - seems that's the way the govt is pushing the developers.

Would like to have all those in positions of power over such decisions to live in such properties for at least one month.

You do go mad in such spaces - in fact caged tigers get more space - for just such reasons.

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Asked the Association - who had really difficulty getting the properties sold - why they were so small. They said set by the local Council. Suspected at the time, if I'd quizzed the Council - it would have been govt driven.

Set by the government, driven by nimby's. Small homes means more homes on less land, developers like this for obvious reasons as buildable land is bloody expensive and not to be wasted on silly things like gardens or rooms large enough to swing a cat, and the nimbies like it as it ultimately means keeping pesky townies where they belong.

"Where we part company is that she seems to think this opens the way for the vast left-of-centre urban majority to trample with impunity in its trainers on the rural minority" -- Max Hastings, CPRE.

I hope all you left-wing trainer-toting oinks know your place! And that place is a tiny £150,000 shared ownership flat built next to a sewage works.

You do go mad in such spaces - in fact caged tigers get more space - for just such reasons.

A Chinese cell for political prisoners is 320 square feet, around the same floorspace as the sort of "luxury apartments", and the latter is expected to be shared between two people... giving the Chinese political prisoner the edge.

That's how low standards have dropped in this country, and with full encouragement of the government. This is partly why old properties of even modest sizes are so expensive, new supply is utterly inadequate on all levels.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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