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Tories Gearing Up To Attack Labour On The Economy

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I saw an item on Channel 4 news last night about the Tories speaking out against the economy. I saw it in the gym and only came in half way through but got the gist of it. It seemed to me they were starting to gear up for an attack on the economy but they were taking a very softly softly approach. They were suggesting that Gordon Brown was putting the long term stability of the economy at risk for short term gains and not considering the future of young people in this country re pensions etc. I also saw a party political broadcast a few weeks ago where David Cameron was taking the line that they wanted to keep what was good about the Labour party i.e. the economy (keeping the Bank of England independent) but improve on the things they got wrong. I wondered why he was playing it down when he could really go for this if he wanted to. Reading between the lines it seems that they don’t want to panic people. They would probably just turn off and not listen anyway if the Tories started banging on about record levels of debt. It goes against the common perception that the economy is thriving, making them look foolish. It would also invite criticism against them as they are far from perfect themselves. In fact it seemed that Channel 4 were posing the same question, why are they being so ‘touchy feely’ about this subject when they have the ammunition to go ‘guns blazing’ if they wanted to? They proposed a potential reason. They pulled out an old film of Norman Lamont on Black Wednesday, the famous day when interest rates hit 15%, walking out of Number 11 Downing Street to make an announcement to the press. There was a figure stood on his left hand side in the background. It was David Cameron.

Edited by SCUMBAG

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Conservatives will get in when the economy tanks. This may happen before the next election, it may not. Either way - people always shoot the messenger, so it dosen't help the Conservatives much to say the economy is pretty dire when people don't believe it.

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I saw an item on Channel 4 news last night about the Tories speaking out against the economy. I saw it in the gym and only came in half way through but got the gist of it. It seemed to me they were starting to gear up for an attack on the economy but they were taking a very softly softly approach. They were suggesting that Gordon Brown was putting the long term stability of the economy at risk for short term gains and not considering the future of young people in this country re pensions etc. I also saw a party political broadcast a few weeks ago where David Cameron was taking the line that they wanted to keep what was good about the Labour party i.e. the economy (keeping the Bank of England independent) but improve on the things they got wrong. I wondered why he was playing it down when he could really go for this if he wanted to. Reading between the lines it seems that they don’t want to panic people. They would probably just turn off and not listen anyway if the Tories started banging on about record levels of debt. It goes against the common perception that the economy is thriving, making them look foolish. It would also invite criticism against them as they are far from perfect themselves. In fact it seemed that Channel 4 were posing the same question, why are they being so ‘touchy feely’ about this subject when they have the ammunition to go ‘guns blazing’ if they wanted to? They proposed a potential reason. They pulled out an old film of Norman Lamont on Black Wednesday, the famous day when interest rates hit 15%, walking out of Number 11 Downing Street to make an announcement to the press. There was a figure stood on his left hand side in the background. It was David Cameron.

They will never say interest rates should rise and house prices fall. They will just waffle about better economic management but try to mimic NuLab.

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What the tory shadow chancellor was saying was the Tories will not risk econimic instability just to cut taxes (he specifically use the words morgage rates and no cuts to public services). Therefore they where changing the policy of promising tax cuts but instead say that they will reduce the tax burdan when economically viable to make britain more able to compete in a harder global enviroment (specifically mentioned china).

I thought it was a good tactic, they are suggesting that the Labour tax and spend are directly to blame for the economic downturn (and if it gets worse I think they'll bang this drum). It's a counter to the swipes gordan brown makes about public service cuts etc.

It's good news that the Tories are finally taking Labour on on the (wrongly) strongest subject, the worst that can happen will be a few economic myths may be debunked.

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Then Labour will blame them for all the sh!t and mistakes they themselves made, it will be like 1979 all over again.

The shit storm is going to be so big IMHO, that everyone will know what caused it. The question is whether the conservatives will be able to avoid it next time round.

The simple problem is people are currently poorer than they think. No goverment wins elections by telling people that they can't go and buy the things they want - they have to just work that out for themselves.

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But no scope for tax cuts according to Cameron.

Sounded like they were DEFENDING their record on the economy last night... Cameron repeatedly saying that tories would safeguard people's housing wealth. Makes me SICK. How bizarre that this much spin can be put on the situation. The pre-emptive strike that caused this will see NuLab eating more than humble pie when the walls cave in. They'll regret ever raising the subject.

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It's hardly a vote winner to say "we are going to make your house prices fall 30% .. but don't worry it's in your best interest". It may actually be in people's best interests but very few actually know/believe that. You can't expect political parties to educate the country on economics in 10 minute speaches.

All that can happen is the housing market crashes and the conservatives explain why it did. That's just the way of things unfortunatly.

But no scope for tax cuts according to Cameron.

How could they possibly propose tax cuts:

- stamp duty revenue is going to fall once people realise an economy does not get rich buying and selling houses to each other

- state workers are going to demand pay rises to pay for the higher costs they are facing

- the NHS is a black hole in which more and more money will be needed as health care gets progressivly more expensive and takes up a higher proportion of GDP

- There are no nice big assets to sell off, telecomms companies are not going to put up with the big 3G auction swindle again for example

- Transport has suffered massive under investment and needs huge injections of cash to get anywere

- Government is going to be needed to fund some energy infastructure or new nuclear power stations etc will not get built

- Continued costs of supporting Iraq/Afghanistan surplus to standard military budget

- Large public debt

Just some of the reasons. Tax cuts would be great, but what is needed first are large spending cuts. Firing about 10% of public sector workers would be a good start.

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It's hardly a vote winner to say "we are going to make your house prices fall 30% .. but don't worry it's in your best interest". It may actually be in people's best interests but very few actually know/believe that. You can't expect political parties to educate the country on economics in 10 minute speaches.

All that can happen is the housing market crashes and the conservatives explain why it did. That's just the way of things unfortunatly.

How could they possibly propose tax cuts:

- stamp duty revenue is going to fall once people realise an economy does not get rich buying and selling houses to each other

- state workers are going to demand pay rises to pay for the higher costs they are facing

- the NHS is a black hole in which more and more money will be needed as health care gets progressivly more expensive and takes up a higher proportion of GDP

- There are no nice big assets to sell off, telecomms companies are not going to put up with the big 3G auction swindle again for example

- Transport has suffered massive under investment and needs huge injections of cash to get anywere

- Government is going to be needed to fund some energy infastructure or new nuclear power stations etc will not get built

- Continued costs of supporting Iraq/Afghanistan surplus to standard military budget

- Large public debt

Just some of the reasons. Tax cuts would be great, but what is needed first are large spending cuts. Firing about 10% of public sector workers would be a good start.

So they maintain the fiction that low IRs and ever rising prices are a good thing. and if HPs fall and the Tories get in, presumably they will be promising to manage the economy in such a way as to get them to rise again?

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So they maintain the fiction that low IRs and ever rising prices are a good thing. and if HPs fall and the Tories get in, presumably they will be promising to manage the economy in such a way as to get them to rise again?

Yup. We live in a democracy, you can't really blame them for doing exactly what people want them to do.

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Yup. We live in a democracy, you can't really blame them for doing exactly what people want them to do.

Do they aspire to be leaders or followers? I thought people were elected to try and what is best, not just what is popular. Idealistic I know but at least as an aspiration...

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Guest Bart of Darkness

Tories Gearing Up To Attack Labour On The Economy

Shouldn't that read "Tories waking up"?

I'm no fan of NuLabour or the tories but Labour at least seemed to make the effort when they were in opposition. They were often rubbish (1980s in particular) but at least they tried.

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Guest pioneer31

It's hardly a vote winner to say "we are going to make your house prices fall 30% .. but don't worry it's in your best interest". It may actually be in people's best interests but very few actually know/believe that. You can't expect political parties to educate the country on economics in 10 minute speaches.

All that can happen is the housing market crashes and the conservatives explain why it did. That's just the way of things unfortunatly.

How could they possibly propose tax cuts:

- stamp duty revenue is going to fall once people realise an economy does not get rich buying and selling houses to each other

- state workers are going to demand pay rises to pay for the higher costs they are facing

- the NHS is a black hole in which more and more money will be needed as health care gets progressivly more expensive and takes up a higher proportion of GDP

- There are no nice big assets to sell off, telecomms companies are not going to put up with the big 3G auction swindle again for example

- Transport has suffered massive under investment and needs huge injections of cash to get anywere

- Government is going to be needed to fund some energy infastructure or new nuclear power stations etc will not get built

- Continued costs of supporting Iraq/Afghanistan surplus to standard military budget

- Large public debt

Just some of the reasons. Tax cuts would be great, but what is needed first are large spending cuts. Firing about 10% of public sector workers would be a good start.

reducing the yearly £106bn (yes, billion) spend on welfare would help.

It's something that is rarely mentioned and yet it DWARFS many other outgoings.

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Labour have increased the tax burden by £200 billion and this is wiping out our manufacturing base. Most of this money has been spent on salary rises, pensions and 1 million extra public sector workers. In return for this, we have fewer police stations, bigger class sizes and relentless loss of public amenities. Worst of all, we now have a public sector which is more like the KGB than a public service.

David Cameron tells that he will make no promises on tax cuts. Could a political leader be more spineless? This week we have seen £1.8 billion of tax payers money given away by mistake. Last week it was another scandal. The week before that it was news about closure of hospital beds.

It is obvious what needs doing and it is begining to look like Cameron is not man enough for the job.

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In the early 90s Labour were crucified on the tax, especially income tax, issue. They thought putting up income taxt was a vote loser (even though under the Conservatives you actaully paid more tax until you were on 5x average earnings than under Labour in the 70s - I'll try and dig out a source for this claim).

now the boundaries have shifted and no one wants to elect a party that reduces spending on public services; hence Cameron recognises that it will not win many new votes by pledging to cut tax.

Britain is still lightly taxed and regulated compared to most of the EU. The high tax claims are a myth, mostly propogated by free market loonies of the neo con Right. WE ARE NOT A HIGHLY TAXED NATION.

I'm afraid much of our manufacturing base was wiped out under the Tories. An obsession with capital, the City, rather than genuine wealth creation by industry has been a problem in Britian and the US since the dawn of Thatcherism and Reaganism.

"Only when the last tree has died and

The last river has been poisoned and

The last fish has been caught,

Will we realise that

We cannot eat money"

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Britain is still lightly taxed and regulated compared to most of the EU. The high tax claims are a myth, mostly propogated by free market loonies of the neo con Right. WE ARE NOT A HIGHLY TAXED NATION.

Thank you Dave Spart

Er not even remotely true. When you add up tax, stealth tax, uniform business rates, and provision of services, we are by any measure a very highly taxed nation. Stamp duty on house sales has risen by 1000% in 10 years. Pensioners are now (edit not to now) subject to crippling council tax. The list goes on and on. If you look at regulations, most European countries sign up to red tape and then ignore it.

As for your comment:

'mostly propogated by free market loonies of the neo con Right.'

Because a person objects to pensioners being taxed into poverty so that overpaid 'excellence cluser coordinators' can retire early (on large index linked pensions) does not make them a neo con Right.

I would not complain about our massive tax burden if it was being properly spent. Every week though, I see evidence of greed, incompetence and waste emerging from our public services.

Edited by dog

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Thank you Dave Spart

Er not even remotely true. When you add up tax, stealth tax, uniform business rates, and provision of services, we are by any measure a very highly taxed nation. Stamp duty on house sales has risen by 1000% in 10 years. Pensioners are now (edit not to now) subject to crippling council tax. The list goes on and on. If you look at regulations, most European countries sign up to red tape and then ignore it.

As for your comment:

'mostly propogated by free market loonies of the neo con Right.'

Because a person objects to pensioners being taxed into poverty so that overpaid 'excellence cluser coordinators' can retire early (on large index linked pensions) does not make them a neo con Right.

I would not complain about our massive tax burden if it was being properly spent. Every week though, I see evidence of greed, incompetence and waste emerging from our public services.

Don't take my word for it. look at the OECD statistics. We are belwo the average level of taxation for OECD memeber countries. FACT

http://ocde.p4.siteinternet.com/publicatio...2005061T017.xls

Next myth to dispel please

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Don't take my word for it. look at the OECD statistics. We are belwo the average level of taxation for OECD memeber countries. FACT

http://ocde.p4.siteinternet.com/publicatio...2005061T017.xls

Next myth to dispel please

Hmmmm! Are you convinced by that? I am certainly not.

OECD average:36.3 %

UK: 35.8 % (and rising rapidly)

Ireland 28.4 %

US 26.4 %

And when you look below the surface, the picture is even uglier. Where countries charge more tax than the UK, the public usually enjoy real benefits:

Child care for working parents

Subsidised public transport (we have the most expensive trains in the world)

Free dental treatment (try and find an NHS dentist)

Free medical treatment (and don't try to tell me that the NHS is still free)

Free orthodontic treatment for children

Free roads (toll roads are appearing)

Free parking in hospitals

Free passports, driving licences etc etc

Pensions without degrading means tests

Free policing (yes you will soon even have to start paying for your local bobby)

etc etc

Everywhere you look now, tax is being levied for a nominal pupose and then a charge is imposed at the point of use. And some of these charges are rocketing.

The trouble with you far lefties is that you attack anyone who complains about tax. The biggest concern (and it is certainly mine) is the way our money is being used (and wasted). I think people would be more tolerant of high taxes if the money was being used for the common good.

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In the early 90s Labour were crucified on the tax, especially income tax, issue. They thought putting up income taxt was a vote loser (even though under the Conservatives you actaully paid more tax until you were on 5x average earnings than under Labour in the 70s - I'll try and dig out a source for this claim).

now the boundaries have shifted and no one wants to elect a party that reduces spending on public services; hence Cameron recognises that it will not win many new votes by pledging to cut tax.

Britain is still lightly taxed and regulated compared to most of the EU. The high tax claims are a myth, mostly propogated by free market loonies of the neo con Right. WE ARE NOT A HIGHLY TAXED NATION.

I'm afraid much of our manufacturing base was wiped out under the Tories. An obsession with capital, the City, rather than genuine wealth creation by industry has been a problem in Britian and the US since the dawn of Thatcherism and Reaganism.

"Only when the last tree has died and

The last river has been poisoned and

The last fish has been caught,

Will we realise that

We cannot eat money"

My memory must be fading or something.

Conservatives were in power from about 1979 to 1997.

Edited by watchinandwaiting

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Labour have increased the tax burden by £200 billion and this is wiping out our manufacturing base.

Brilliant! In one sentence, Dog has explained away what teams of economists have been working on for years! She knows the single reason why manufacturing industry is contracting. Never mind any other possibilities like the growth of manufacturing in other parts of the world. Dog knows the answer.

It is obvious what needs doing...

Of course it is, Dog! Why is everyone else so stupid?

It must be great to have such a simple mind. Come to think of it, perhaps not. :rolleyes:

p

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Er not even remotely true. When you add up tax, stealth tax, uniform business rates, and provision of services, we are by any measure a very highly taxed nation. Stamp duty on house sales has risen by 1000% in 10 years. Pensioners are now (edit not to now) subject to crippling council tax. The list goes on and on. If you look at regulations, most European countries sign up to red tape and then ignore it.

You think you are highly taxed here? I am just back from some meetings in Norway, if you lived their you would be having conniptions. Putt's rip off Britain into perspective when you pay £50 for five bottles of beer. On the other hand it seems to be a very prosperous and pleasant place and the chicklets are outrageously pretty. Everyone is equally house price obsessed though.

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Brilliant! In one sentence, Dog has explained away what teams of economists have been working on for years! She knows the single reason why manufacturing industry is contracting. Never mind any other possibilities like the growth of manufacturing in other parts of the world. Dog knows the answer.

Of course it is, Dog! Why is everyone else so stupid?

It must be great to have such a simple mind. Come to think of it, perhaps not. :rolleyes:

p

Hmm

The relentless rise in tax and red tape is bad for business. You cannot get away from this.

Just look at our declining status in the world of the UK in the field of Patents. We used to be one of the top patent countries in the world. Over the last 10 years we have slipped out of sight. Our manufacturing productivity is also sliding rapidly, even against countries like France and Germany. This year our manufacturing employment will slip below 3 million. This is the lowest figure since the industrial revolution.

One suspects that you are probably a public servant undertandably trying to defend your golden ticket. The problem is however that very few public servants actually serve the nation these days. They have become an obstructive and beligerant obstacle to progress. Just look at the Home Office. John Reid has described them as 'not fit for purpose' and 'dysfuncitional'. These are people on huge salaries and they can't be sacked. This is terrible for the country.

Our public sector has to be drastically pruned for the sake of everyone.

By the way, why do you refer to me as a she. Surely a female dog is a bitch and who could say I am bitchy?

Edited by dog

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tories....economy......tories....answers....

zzzzzzzzzz....

I don't think that the Tories or Labour have the back bone to sort out our public services. The Home Secretary has described parts of the Home Office as dysfunctional but admits that he cannot sack them. Who the hell is in charge these days?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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